Buying a American made truck

[Jim Almquist]

I kept hearing the ads that Tundra had more american parts then Ford so I had to find out if it was true. This is the top 25 american made vehicles. Everything below was copy and paste.

Here’s a list of 25 vehicles with fewer domestic parts than the Tundra:

Vehicle % Domestic Content

Toyota Tundra 80%

Chevy Corvette 77%

Toyota Camry 75%

Chevy Silverado / GMC Sierra 75%

Ford F-Series 75%

Dodge Dakota 72%

Ford Explorer and Expedition 70%

Ford Mustang 70%

Honda Ridgeline 70%

Dodge Charger 66%

Chevy Suburban Tahoe / GMC Yukon 65%

Ford Ranger 65%

Nissan Titan 65%

Jeep Grand Cherokee 61%

Honda Civic 60%

Jeep Wrangler 57%

Ford Fusion 55%

Dodge Ram 53%

Ford Focus 50%

Chrysler PT Cruiser 27%

Volkswagen Jetta 9%

Saturn Astra 2%

It’s important to note that the Tundra has more domestic parts than ANY other full-size pickup (as you can see). The figures in this table come straight from the US Federal Government, a product of the American Automobile Labeling Act (AALA).

Oddly enough, the AALA was originally intended to discourage US consumers from buying “foreign” cars. Does that mean we should avoid the Dodge Ram (just barely half of the truck is made in the USA)? Who would have thought that the mighty Dodge Ram, the classic Chevy Silverado and GMC Sierra, and the formidable F-Series would all have LESS domestic content than the Tundra.

[fishhuntwork]

Ford and Chevy is still american owned. Dodge sold out to the germans. I know Toyota isn't american owned.

[aanderud]

Heaven forbid you try to use logic to any fanatic -- and that includes "buy american" fanatics.

Nevermind that the truck is manufactured in the US (using American employees). Nevermind that the trucks PARTS are manufactured in the US (also providing jobs for Americans). Don't you know -- it's not jobs for Americans that matters -- it's the the country of origin of the corporation that matters.

By the argument above, any company with a headquarters in New York, but who still manufactures vehicle and parts abroad (using foreign labor) is a better company to buy from. Of course. Makes perfect sense.

But again, I guess it comes down to logic and fanatacism -- they just don't mix.

Jimalm, you don't have to feel ashamed to buy a Tundra. I would own one myself if I didn't buy a Ram (because at the time -- 2004 -- the Tundra had a cruddy 235 hp V8 that wouldn't tow my lawn tractor, let alone my boat). Many people think that the Tundra is the best 1/2 ton pickup you can buy today. I've always been a bit surprised they don't move to the 3/4 ton market, but I guess there are a LOT of buy-american fanatics that don't take as much time to research into which provides more americans with good paying jobs. And then there are even ones that laugh in the face of the research and respond with strawman arguments of where the headquarters of the corporation is.

[swamptiger]

Quote:

Dodge sold out to the germans.

Daimler-Benz sold their ownership stake to Fiat, an Italian company, who I think currently holds about a 25% stake. But I believe the majority stockholder is still the UAW trust fund.

[Valv]

I am one of these "buy American" fanatics, argued at the Toyota worshipers (anybody here ?) all the times and despised any asian vehicle. Recent fact discoveries made me finally change my mind, and to top it off last month I was at a local dealer to have my Dodge fixed, I was wondering around the showroom and I looked at the build sheet of a new Mustang GT (the dealer is also a Ford dealer), it stated motor was made in US transmission made in...China....

That's it that did it to me, I gave up trying to stand for a lost cause. When one of the true original American symbols ( the Ford Mustang) begins to be made in China, I think we should just bend over and give up.

BTW Dodge/Chrysler is not owned by germans anymore, the Italians have part of the shares now. If you buy a new Dodge you could say you have a Fiat Ram

[bucketmouth64]

Are repair bills still less expensive for American vehicles vs. Foreign vehicles or has that evened out with the technology in the vehicles nowadays. I remember back in the day that foreign car repair bills were more expensive, so people opted for american made cars.

[Alagnak]

A lot of good points guys. I had heard this several times before but had never looked at any data. Yeah I just don't get some people's logic sometimes, or lake of.

I too would love to own a Toyota like I did for years, if I didn't marry a gal who's family owns a ford dealership. LOL I couldn't even park my toyota truck in their driveway when we were dating!

I like my gas guzzling F-150 and all but I sure won't when I go to sell it or trade it. They sure don't have the resale the Toyotas had that I sold I know that.

[swamptiger]

Quote:

Are repair bills still less expensive for American vehicles vs. Foreign vehicles or has that evened out with the technology in the vehicles nowadays. I remember back in the day that foreign car repair bills were more expensive, so people opted for american made cars.

The transmission recently went out on my wife's Ford Focus, which acording to the information above, is about 50% U.S. parts ( I think it's actually a Mazda with a different badge, but don't know for sure). Cost was $3000 for a rebuilt tranny installed, which is roughly 1/2 the value of the vehicle. The car had less than 80k on it when the transmission failed.

[Jeremy airjer W]

@Jim, I could have told you that!

@Alagnak, I feel bad for you brother but on the other hand when I was new truck shopping the F-150 was neck in neck with the Tundra. The test drive in the 5.7 liter Tundra was the deal maker! I know, I know your jealous!

@bucketmouth, The simple answer, at least for aisin vehicles, is no, IMO. Here's what I have noticed over the years. When there is a known issue a few of the import manufacturers seem to really drop the price on those parts almost to the point of ridiculous. And if there is an updated part with a kit the kits are often less than buying just the part.

The aftermarket has really caught up in the aisin market. There isn't a whole lot you have to get from the dealer anymore and you can still find good quality in the aftermarket as well.

Another trend in the aisin market is a majority of the manufacturers are going to timing chains. No more timing belt services and the cost of ownership drops again. A big plus and a move in the right direction to bring consumers back to there market who may have enjoyed the reliability but didn't car for the $ spent on maintenance!

[Jeremy airjer W]

BTW I agree with aanderud. I felt a little bad buying a Toyota in the height of the us automakers crashing. After I thought about it had I bought a GM most of my money goes to an overpaid corporate executed that drove the business into the ground and the money left over goes to pay the salaries of people in India, Sri Lanka, Canada, Mexico, Thailand, and Poland. The rest goes to the employees that make the other three parts in the US! (I know its a little extreme but you get the point).

I am happy that my purchase kept Americans employed in the US and that's really what its all about! It's a global market. I don't care who owns the business if they want to set up shop in the US and employ Americans and treat them fairly and competitively than my hats off to that company.

[aanderud]

If logic and fanaticism were compatible, I would NOT be a vikings fan. Alas, I still continue to faithfully follow the team after this many seasons of futility. Oh dang. Wrong forum.

Airjer, I'm jealous of your Tundra. When I was shopping in '04, the Tundra wasn't even in the running. It was a nice vehicle, quiet, smooth, etc...but just not yet a truck with that wimpy engine. I've been drooling since the redesign (was it '06?) that brought the 5.7 liter with more horses.

I'm not a fanatic of Toyota or any one car brand. I've owned chevy, dodge, and currenty a hyundai sedan. I just try to look at whatever model seems to be the best performance AND value (short term, long term, etc) in its class at the time that I need a vehicle. It's a global economy, and the original post here opens eyes to many surprises on where things are actually made.

The Tundra seems like a good buy on many fronts -- if you drive it into the ground, you theoreticall should get plenty of years out of it(given Toyota's historically good reliabilility -- the Tundra has only been out what, 5 years now, so it's tough to say for certain). If you sell while it's still drivable, the resale value is much higher, as Pete suggests.

My next vehicle will PROBABLY be a Toyota, but unfortunately if my wife has her way and we go ahead and get that other rugrat, methinks the model will be the minivan, not a pickup Luckily for my ice fishing, my '04 ram has many years left in her.

[goblueM]

don't feel bad about buying a good product at a good price... after all what could be american that exercising your choice in a free market?

[Ralph Wiggum]

When I was shopping in '04, the Tundra wasn't even in the running. It was a nice vehicle, quiet, smooth, etc...but just not yet a truck with that wimpy engine.

Off-topic a bit, but I was a bit nervous about the 4.7 when looking at Sequoias of that generation. I can tell you that while it is no 5.7, it's no slouch in the power department. The HP rating is relatively low, but the torque is on par with a GM 5.3 of the same vintage. Along with the fact that they are geared pretty low (my Sequoia has a 4.1:1 axel ratio), and I have plenty of confidence pulling with my 4.7. Of course, I wouldn't turn down a 5.7, but the 4.7 was a great engine if you could get past the "no replacement for displacement" feelings.

2004 Tundra Specs:

240 HP SAE @ 4,800 rpm; 315 ft lb @ 3,400 rpm

[motley man]

Now if they could make them last 10 years like they used to.

[DTro]

Just like in any other market, companies tend to leap frog each other which at the end of the day is great for us as consumers.

I just really don't care for "Buy American" being used as a marketing gimmick though. The product should be good enough to sell itself.

[cabin]

Vehicles are a lot better than they use to be. I remember when 100,000 miles on a vehicle was exceptional, and a ten year old vehicles was old. Now there are lots of vehicles over ten years old still going strong, and they are not a pile of rust.

[fatcat45]

I have a 2000 tundra,158,000 on her and runs like a bat outta h&%$..tows great,but likes the fuel...I still love it..

[Jaspernuts]

Let me first start out by saying that I own a Ford f-150 and recently inherited a dodge intrepid. I work for a fleet company and many of our customers run their vehicles to 200 or 250k. One thing our computers do is calculate the average cost of repairs for every make and model over certain mileages. Its not even close. We had one fleet that ran 1000 chevy 1500's and like 1200 toyota tacomas. Over the course of 200k they chevys averaged over 2000 dollars more in repairs. If you want to spend thousands more during the life of a vehicle to support american go ahead. I'll keep my money. My next car is a toyota.

[MNAnglerE5]

I don't believe there is a right or wrong here like most seem to, but to those who say it's only about the workers and not about the country the company resides, it's just not that simple. Tax dollars matter baby!!

What government they're going to, for example. That's not a bash on Toyota either, since they have Toyota North America and about 8 other second organizational teir groups all found below the parent Toyota Motor Corp in Japan...just saying you'd need to review and offer an interpretation of the company financials if you really want to accurately assess the net economic impact.

[delcecchi]

I don't believe there is a right or wrong here like most seem to, but to those who say it's only about the workers and not about the country the company resides, it's just not that simple. Tax dollars matter baby!!

What government they're going to, for example. That's not a bash on Toyota either, since they have Toyota North America and about 8 other second organizational teir groups all found below the parent Toyota Motor Corp in Japan...just saying you'd need to review and offer an interpretation of the company financials if you really want to accurately assess the net economic impact.

Since GM hasn't paid taxes for years, and won't for many more years due to tax loss carry forwards I guess that eliminated Chevy and GMC from any consideration.

I bet Toyota USA pays taxes.

[SkunkedAgain]

Over the course of 200k they chevys averaged over 2000 dollars more in repairs. If you want to spend thousands more during the life of a vehicle to support american go ahead.

Funny, I didn't have any of this data but it supports why I bought a Ford Ranger in 2006. The Toyota Tacoma cost an extra $10k more than the Ranger. If you transfer the data (above) then it's cheaper to save $10k up front and expend only an extra $2k throughout the life of the vehicle. In the end you might need to factor in resale value if you don't plan on driving the vehicle into the ground.

That said, the "buy American" campaign of the 1980s almost doomed the US economy. Had everyone truly done that, there would have been no incentive for US manufacturers to improve. At the time foreign products such as cars were better and cheaper. The competition forced American manufacturers to improve and therefore be more competitive in the global market.

When you look at the original post, a Tundra at 80% American parts vs an F-150 at 75% American parts is pretty close so you're safe either way. If you want to toss the ownership location (US vs foreign) into the equation then they are likely equal in terms of supporting America. All of this means that you should feel confident buying either.

[zamboni]

Toyota is the industry leader in recalls- 3 million more last week.

[gregg52]

i have a yukonxl and ford xlt

pros and cons to both i wish i could put this on that and that on this

i've owned serval surburbans and each one had at least 275k on it

the last one was at 285 when i sold it and feel it had another 100k in it yet and it wasnt rusted bad at all

so where ever the parts come from they where pretty decent

i use to stand by the american made deal

but man its just a different a world today

i guess the good thing about my boat i went to factory so i know that was built here at least the hull who knows bout every thing else that

went into it

those toyota's are nice looking trucks

[Jeremy airjer W]

Toyota is the industry leader in recalls- 3 million more last week.

Lets do a recall history ad see who comes out ahead. How about all the recent recalls with gm. Never heard a whisper about those in the media did you! I have a feeling you will soon see (or as the past has shown, not hear) another GM recall in the new future for there Drive by wire systems failing.

What about all the pattern failures that GM has that are left up to the owner to pay for out of there pocket. You will never see GM recall any of those and admit poor quality in the parts, engineering, or manufacturing.

A recall is not a bad thing. It says a company recognizes a problem, has found a solution, and is taking care of it for you at no cost to you.

There have been many times we have called toyota and honda to inquire about parts and the parts guys have told us to have the customer bring the car to them and they will take care of it no charge regardless of the mileage on the vehicle. I have never had that happen with the big three!

[CJH]

Here's the overall Domestic Parts % by company (2009 stats - 2010 hasn't been posted yet):

GM: 69%

Ford Motor Co.: 64%

Chrysler Corp.: 60%

Honda/Acura: 58%

Toyota/Lexus/Scion: 44%

Nissan/Infiniti: 31%

Mitsubishi: 25%

Subaru: 20%

Mercedes-Benz: 16%

Suzuki: 12%

Mazda: 11%

Volkswagen/Audi: 9%

BMW/Mini: 5%

Jaguar/Land Rover: 3%

Porsche: 3%

Toyota realized that if they wanted to build an "American Truck" they needed to manufacture it in the US. They built a plant for it in Texas for the latest generation of Tundra and have been building them there ever since. More and more foreign car makers are doing this, based on the favorable exchange rates with the dollar (the dollar is weak, so its cheaper to manufacture here). Its interesting to note that despite this, it still is in 4th place in terms of sales in the full size category (5th if you separate out the Silverado/Sierra), only beating the Nissan Titan. They are good trucks, but some of the issues at Toyota have definitely deterred it from overtaking the Big Three thus far (which have had their own issues).

Here are the auto sales for 2010:

Vehicle Name/% change YTD/Vehicle Sold

Ford F - Series PU 13.9 528,349

Chevrolet Silverado PU 27.7 370,135

Toyota Camry / Solara -10.7 327,804

Honda Accord 12.6 282,530

Honda Civic 26.6 260,218

Dodge Ram PU 93.4 199,652

Honda CR-V 23.8 203,714

Nissan Altima 23.5 229,263

Chevrolet Equinox 79.1 149,979

Ford Fusion 20 219,219

Toyota Corolla / Matrix -35.5 266,082

Ford Escape -2.4 191,026

Toyota RAV4 4.4 170,877

GMC Sierra PU 38.3 129,794

Hyundai Sonata 52.3 196,623

Toyota Prius 32.8 140,928

Dodge Caravan 66.6 103,323

Hyundai Elantra 127.2 132,246

Volkswagen Jetta 27 123,213

Jeep Grand Cherokee 211.3 84,63

Sources: Cars.com, and the Wall Street Journal