What would you do?

[tunrevir]

You are an avid fisherperson and at your wits end with your job. Is it feasable to go out and fish for a living? I know there are drawbacks, but if you where pushed from a comfortable job, would you seek out a job in the fishing industry or would it just be an avocation for you? How serious are you about your fishing and are you willing to try and take it to the next level? What types of things would you want to see in place before you made a leap of faith. Do you think you could hack a schedule of travelling, sports shows and promotions while maintaining a solid family atmosphere? I am curious to see what you folks think. When is the "status quo" too much, and what would you do if you really thought you might have a chance to fish for a livning rather then for fun? I'll be curious to see the responses. My first and foremost thought is always, "why make something fun become a job." Is ther such a thing as happiness within your family, happiness in your job and doing what you love? I know guides don't make a ton of dough but I am asking you about the tourney aspects of your dream job? Think you can cut it? Tell me why.

Tunrevir~

[BobT]

Personally, I really enjoy speding time on the water but I think if I was to start fishing for a living it would take the joy out of it. Doing it because I must or starve would turn it into a job. The pressure of succeeding or failing as a professional fisherman would make work out of what I currently consider a past time or hobby. That's just me I guess. Some really enjoy the challenge of a tournament or perhaps the pressure of satisfying customers by putting all the hours to guarantee you'll put them on fish no matter what.

[jentz]

A good guide needs nothing but word of mouth,The job isn't instantly created.Its nursed along.

"Do you think you could hack a schedule of travelling, sports shows and promotions"

again word of mouth is all thats needed.The expense of shows is not needed.If you have all, and I mean all!! the attributes of guiding (if thats what you are mentioning "Guiding?") you'll get there.If someone wants carp you have to be on to it! trout again on to it.The all purpose friendly guy with a can do attidude.and can do.

[ClownColor]

I would rather operate a bait shop or outdoor store then fish for a living...thats what i do to relax.

[delcecchi]

A good guide needs nothing but word of mouth,The job isn't instantly created.Its nursed along.

"Do you think you could hack a schedule of travelling, sports shows and promotions"

again word of mouth is all thats needed.The expense of shows is not needed.If you have all, and I mean all!! the attributes of guiding (if thats what you are mentioning "Guiding?") you'll get there.If someone wants carp you have to be on to it! trout again on to it.The all purpose friendly guy with a can do attidude.and can do.

I think personally it would really bother me if I took someone out fishing and charged good money and the result wasn't good. Yeah, I know it isn't necessarily my fault, but it would still bother me.

[DocJpa]

There are very few people that can actually make a living solely on the fishing industry. I know many tournament fisherman, and guides that have a second job. Many guides use there guiding income to supplement their retirement from other jobs. Unless you have big time connections to get your foot in the door it will be very hard for you to break into the industry.

[Wish-I-Were-Fishn]

Wow, tough call. I would think you would want to do it part time and see how it goes. Post some ads on list of craig and make some cash this summer. To dive in cold turkey while giving up your job is asking for trouble IMO.

[TyGuy02]

My wife just asked me today "if you could do anything you wanted to for a living, what?" I said a guide hands-down. I would tomorrow if I didn't have to worry about the money. I would need me a sugar-momma!

[CANOPY SAM]

Guiding is tough. Sounds elegant, exciting, dream job, like owning a resort, or an amazing restaurant, until you actually have to do it, day in, and day out. Then it becomes a job, a grind, just like any other job.

Any job can be enjoyable, and any job can be an absolute drag. It's all about what attitude you take to work everyday.

Word of mouth is true. Lots of competition in the good markets. Gonna take a ton of leg work, cash, and friends to break in. Kinda like starting a farm.

Raising a young family, keeping it all together, and spending a lot of time on the road, nowadays, it takes a strong woman behind you to pull it off, and it's still an invitation for major problems.

Find a full-time job you enjoy. Do a little guiding, an occasional seminar, or a sports show, on a very part time basis. That outta be enough to scratch the itch.

[fishgutz77]

Ask yourself if you won the lottery tomorrow would you still want to guide?

If the answer is "no"

then stay home. you have to love it and it has to mean more than paying bills and you need to build a rep first.

Ask guys like Al Maas,tony Roach, and Bro

I wish you the best whatever happens.

[Rick G]

I have often thought about it. If guiding is finding the fish, figuring out the presentation, baiting hooks, catching fish for those who can't, cleaning said fish and cooking up lunch almost every time out not to mention suppling the gear when someone doesn't have something is guiding. Well then ,I guess I'm a guide to the lasiest bunch of buddies one could hope for .

All kidding aside, I don't think I could do it. I wouldn't be able to take pay if I couldn't produce. I have a few budies in the industry, they always seem to be high strung when we are out fishing together, just wouldn't be right for me at this point in my life.

[RumRiverRat]

Go fishing and thing about it.

[traveler]

Nope, not for me. I could put up with the fishing:), although even that would get old some days when the wind was howling or the barometer doing flip flops all over the place.

it's the people I couldn't take. never did cotton to the old "customer is always right" thing...I guess if I was a good enough guide they could write me off as the crusty old type, kind of like the old shark fisherman in Jaws:)

...course we all know how it worked out for HIM

[Tom7227]

When people think about doing the fishing for a living thing I would bet that their mental image is when they are out in the boat with friends or family. Thing is that paying clients aren't your friends and family. If you have the skill to routinely catch fish on a consistent basis you only have at best 1/3 of what is needed. Do you have the personality and skill to be able to deal with the total jerk that wants to control what is going on, the whiny wimp with his brat kid, or the fat slob who strews garbage on your boat and passes gas every 5 minutes?

Do you have the skill to operate a business with all the things that means? Taxes, skill to obtain a line of credit so you can have operating capital, drive to go out and hustle no matter what the weather? Do you have the personality that will allow you to keep clients feeling positive? Do you have the desire to engage in 'sales' so that your client list gets long?

I turned on the Outdoor Channel the other day and there was a fishing tournament show on. I haven't seen that type of show for at least 4 years. I was stunned when I saw that the event was occurring inside an arena that looked like the Xcel, thousands of people, huge tv's and this slick dude MC'ing. The tournament thing has changed in ways that really change the landscape. If you want to become a tournament fisherman you better have the skill to 'perform' at events like I describe. Standing there in your jeans with a chew won't cut it. Or I suppose you could just make sure that you have Tammy next to you with some cleavage showing.

[PEATMOSS]

Another alternative may be to take a job you can stand, but in a great fishing area. You may have to alter your lifestyle a bit with the lower income, but living near really great fishing can make up for that.

I don't know what kind of fishing you like to do, but there are great communities with incredible fishing all over northern Mn. Jobs are not as easy to find, and you'll probably take a pay cut, but you could also be on Winnie, Leech, Rainy.....a few minutes after work depending on where you choose to live.

[Ballyhoo]

If you are willing to move, the guides at the better resorts on LOW make pretty good money now. Decent wage and good tips. Not all resorts are the same. It is a lot of hard work, they fish a little over 100 days a summer if the resort they work for is busy. You have to be careful as the lower guides at some resorts only fish about 40-50. Then there is the winter season and that is even more work moving houses, setting them up and taking people out to them. I am friends with several guides up there and according to them both seasons have their ups and downs. When one is done, you are ready for the next one.

[PerchJerker]

Anyone who thinks they can be a guide should donate their time and boat to one of the organizations that takes kids, wounded vets, etc. out fishing. Try doing a trip or two and see what you think. There's no pay involved and the guests are really genuinely grateful for the opportunity to go fishing with someone who has a boat and knows what he's doing. The worst thing that should happen if you don't catch fish is it might hurt your ego a bit.

I've never guided for money but I have donated some trips. The thing I sometimes find the hardest is making conversation all day with someone I don't know (sometimes it's easy, sometimes it's not). The days it's not easy can turn into REALLY long days. I've donated some trips to charitable auctions where the highest bidder wins the trip. Some of those have not been the best .... guys expect to catch fish, guys question your choice of location / bait / tackle / even the line you're using ..... the one that bugged me the most was the guy who wanted to compare me to all of the other guided trips he's been on.

The bottom line is sometimes it's great and sometimes it's really not a good experience. I'd much rather go fishing with guys I don't know under a casual "hey, you want to go fishing" arrangement than actually "guiding" them.

It would be great if more people would donate their time and boat to one of these organizations and take a person fishing for a day.

[delcecchi]

There are some professional guides on here. I can think of three that post or have posted on the Vermilion board, Cliff Wagenbach, Musky Tom Wehler, and Ace (Terry "Ace" Sjoberg). they all have quite different personalities and might have some thoughts. I don't know if Ace is posting here, but I am sure they all have web sites as well.

[Alagnak]

If you have the skill to routinely catch fish on a consistent basis you only have at best 1/3 of what is needed. Do you have the personality and skill to be able to deal with the total jerk that wants to control what is going on, the whiny wimp with his brat kid, or the fat slob who strews garbage on your boat and passes gas every 5 minutes.

Spot on here. I've been guiding in Alaska every summer but one since 1998. I worked for 3 dump holes before I found my current place of employment and have been there 10+ years. I started guiding in NW WI in 95 at age 15 guiding a photographer and his wife for the WI Governor's fishing opener- that was my first gig. I had my learner's permit, a truck, and my dad's boat. :-)

At the lodge I guide for in Alaska we don't worry much at all about a prospective guide's fishing background or geographic area he is from when we have to hire a new guide. We can teach anyone to fish (especially there) as a lot of ways are different from 'back home' anyway. We need guys with the best people skills you can find that can deal with anything and everything thrown their way from customers who are from around the globe. And someone with some common sense and mechanical skills to deal with adversity on the water.

One of the biggest mistakes new guides make is focusing on the fishing too much and worrying about keeping up with the veterans as to how many fish people are catching in a day. It's funny when they see me pull in to the dock, not a fish in the box and my guys are happy as heck. New guy- "Hey, we killed em out there, there was thousands of fish on that tide how did you guys do?" Me- "not a fish- we never wet a line. We drifted with the oars in and video taped a bear and three cubs for 4 hours." :-) Because that's what they wanted to do today.

You really need to know your customer and what their goals are for the trip- what THEY want to accomplish not what you want to accomplish. Sometimes it's swallowing your pride at times knowing you're on a bad spot for hours and hours because this guy has 'caught them there 10 years ago on a trip'. After eating crow there he finally says 'lets try one of your spots' and you go and hammer em. Then, he thinks your a fish god. LOL It doesn't matter sometimes how a bite is going- if a guy wants to catch a certain species a certain way - maybe on a rod he built or fly he tied you better try to make that happen and not sit on your old spots all day because that's what you're use to.

There's also a big difference between being self employed and working for someone. I don't like to advertise, self pimp, or product pimp (all things *most* guys have to do to be self employed). So it works best for me to have someone else do the advertising, bookings, etc. Obviously its MUCH less stress as well. I too- don't believe the customer is always right. If it's your boat/biz then you can take them back to shore and give them their money back. If you're guiding for someone else you can't get away with that and have to eat it the rest of the day/trip and it can be tough. A day can feel like a week in the boat with someone you don't want to be with. 90% of the time they are great people anyway. When working for someone else you might not have to worry about the boat, rods/gear or any of that so if someone breaks a $400 fly rod that's out of warranty you don't have to get mad or worry about it coming out of your pocket. No big deal! Just smile and grab another rod!

When you're on the water every day all day with no days off in the cold and rain the last thing you want to do on your off time is go back out for fun. So yes, if you do it full time it CAN take the fun out of it in a way. I guide just enough to start to get sick of it and then take a break from it long enough to keep it fresh, fun, and anticipating the next season. A lot of guys I work with make it full time by going down south or south america in the winter. They don't own homes or have family and can get away with that when they're young. I sure wouldn't want to do it full time though and will gladly work two jobs. Just my 2 cents.

[nofishfisherman]

I love fishing but have no desire to make a living off of it. To make a living off of it you could either be a guide or go the pro route and live on the tournament circuit. Neither appeals to me.

To be a guide you'd have to deal with people from all kinds of backgrounds, all with their own desires, and all with their own quirks. You'd have to be willing to deal with that day in and day out. 9 out of 10 people would probably be fine dealing with but get stuck on a boat for 8 hours with that 1 other guy who you can't stand when the fish aren't biting and the joys of fishing become real WORK in a hurry.

I'm also not sure what the economics of guiding would be like the first couple years. I suppose it would depend on how much gear you'd need to buy to outfit your clients. They you'd need to plan insurance, advertising costs, probably a HSOforum, etc. It takes time to build a reputation and a client base, and during that time you'll have all the expenses without money coming in everyday. Could be some lean years before you actually make a living off of it.

As for the pro route, no thank you. The time away from home would kill it for me. You'd be on the road for tournaments a good part of the year. Add in the countless sportshows and sponsor gigs you're likely obligated to attend and you may never see your home waters not to mention your family. All that and your reward is only a "chance" at making some money. Personally I don't like going to work knowing that I may not make any money that week. Have a bad year, or even a couple bad months while you are starting out and you might have a hard time holding on to your sponsors. Too much pressure for something that should be fun. I think you need to be an incredibly gifted fisherman and also wired just the right way to make a go of tournament fishing.

[sevenmmm]

The competition is fierce, the market is not growing, business wise I would think it is a hard path to take. Many of those in place have been there awhile, some from the beginning, and you just can't take their customer list away. You are going to have to do many shows and find customers that are just getting into fishing. Think of this, it really doesn't take much to start a bait shop. So the issue is with every new bait shop in business, there is less fisherman going to each shop...

But if you can live on next to nothing in the start, and keep at it for many years, it can be done!

[Pherris]

I considered this once and was given the following advice by a guide that I became friends with from here on FM.

Guide: So you want to be a guide huh?

Me: Yeah, I think I am a pretty good stick I like people and love fishing so I figure I could make enough money to get by and do what I love.

Guide: Well before we get to the money part why don’t you try this.

Pick 2 or 3 people you know that really rub you the wrong way. You know the ones we all have that argue about everything and are always right. Now closely monitor the weather report and when you see that a good 2-3 day period of wind and rain is approaching call your "friends" and offer to take them fishing. Make sure you have your best gear ready for them to use. Then spend 8 hours a day in the boat with them and if possible have them bring a young child too. After you do this if you still want to be a guide call me and we can talk about the money.

Then he added : “Oh and if you are married make sure your wife has a good paying job.”

I decided to do something else and keep my fishing fun.

Now with that said I have had the opportunity to fish with some really good guides( a couple from this site) and have a tremendous amount of respect for them as they are not in it for the money and it isn’t as easy a job as some may think...

Good Fishing!!

[BobT]

I would rather operate a bait shop or outdoor store then fish for a living...thats what i do to relax.

I've thought about this. "The Fisherman's Corner" in Osakis is now closed and I considered buying it as a retirement project but after giving it some thought figured it would not be for me. Why? Because, owning a retail business requires a lot of time both during work hours and off hours. Contrary to what many people seem to think, you don't buy a business, hire a bunch of help, and sit on your butt counting cash. It would require my time so much that I know I would have to give up most of the fishing days that I like to enjoy. Forget about fishing the opener, spending time with family over memorial day weekend, forth of July, Labor Day weekend, or probably most weekends especially for the first couple years. Personally, watching how it was managed by the last owner, I think that was what he learned and why it is now closed. Unless I would enjoy being at the bait shop more than being on the water, I figured it would not be for me.

Just my thoughts.

[Raider4ever]

No. I like to fish alone. People bug the fece out of me.

[Iambjm]

First and foremost give this some thought, being self-employed you have to pay all your own Social Security taxes, your own health insurance, insurance for your business, all your expenses for your business (which would be tax deductible) file complicated tax returns. Then there are the questions of what do you do if you have trips booked and have a family emergency or illness, or if you have kids they have an important event coming up and you aren't there? Others have already mentioned the people factor, what about equipment failure. I had a problem with my outboard last summer that held it up for 3 weeks. being self-employed sounds like the all American dream, but I did it for around 35 years and can tell you it ain't all it's cracked up to be.