APR, QDM, Trophy Hunters, etc....

[Musky Buck]

Right on John I was just going off a study I believe wolf biologists did and I believe they figured however they did it was 16-19 per year. That study was in Montana if I remember right where they have antelope,mulies,elk,etc. way more to forage on then here and way less wolf competition. The inferior and the weak,of course they pick them off first certainly, we found 3 dead wolf killed bucks last spring, I doubt they were inferior and weak,they had a good place to winter with ample food available, they didn't just drop dead on there own, they were killed in just 30.6 acres of cover as well as others. They won't stop eating when the easy prey is gone. I believe that statement when wolf numbers were a third what they are today or in places where the wolf per square mile of cover is in balance. But oh well, we'll be able to target wolves soon thankfully and get them back to numbers MN can handle or mange or something will do it for us.

[nolte]

Actually it's been documented quite extensively that wovles primarily prey on the inferior and the weak. To say they don't is just not true.

John, I hate to break it to you but you are completely wrong on this. Wolves don't discriminate one bit to what they go after. They are an Apex predator, they can/will predate on anything they wish to. In other times they actually search out lone animals to target.

The exception to this is in calving/fawning season, where they predate almost extensively on does/fawn or cow/calves. This has been documented from Alaska all the way through to WI. Search up the info on the WI elk herds and read the reports. They wait for does/cows to seperate from others right before giving birth and then hammer them. Also those lone animals are most likely old mature bucks/bulls since they tend to be loners most times of the year.

The "sick, weak and old" argument is nothing more than PETA/HSUS propaganda. Call up a wolf biologist/expert (without an angenda) in AK or frontier trapper up there who spends months in the bush. See what their thoughts are.

[Getanet]

I highly doubt any of us are wolf experts, but Nolte, a quick Internet search would support John's statement about wolves preying on the least healthy of a herd (smaller, weaker, slower, sicker).

They may be Apex predators, but this isn't exactly a grizzly bear grabbing an easy meal during a salmon run. Its going to take them a lot more effort to catch & kill a mature buck than any other deer.

[Surface Tension]

Deer will display behavior to show a wolf it is fit. The wolf will decide which deer it wants and go after it and won't lose focus on that deer. That chase could go on for a while and it isn't about to drop that chase to chase another deer.

[john skarie]

Well than I guess the people that actually film, document and study wolves have it all wrong.

JS

[BRULEDRIFTER]

Well, DUH! Don't you know that the best fisheries and wildlife biologists are all found here on HSO!

[ANYFISH2]

Wow, now it about wolves! Great. Nolte, maybe read some research other than that that supports your agenda, you may learn something, nothing is that matter of fact. Your example is true in few instences, as a blanket statement it hogwash! Sorry.

Now back to getting bigger bucks!

[Big Dave2]

John, I hate to break it to you but you are completely wrong on this. Wolves don't discriminate one bit to what they go after. They are an Apex predator, they can/will predate on anything they wish to. In other times they actually search out lone animals to target.

I am pretty sure that it is YOU that is wrong. A wolf may "go after" every deer it wants to but the deer that it actually catches and eats is a whole other story.

[Big Dave2]

Well than I guess the people that actually film, document and study wolves have it all wrong.

JS

Evidently the naturalists up at Wolf Ridge ELC have it wrong also!

[Big Dave2]

I know three grown men who last year shot 8 trophy bucks,

But there are still not enough trophy bucks to go around?

[PurpleFloyd]

[BLACKJACK]

Good thing that a mountain lion was killed down in SW MN, looks like people are getting tired of this topic!!!

[Harmonica Bear]

Want bigger bucks? outlaw the bowhunters, that's all they shoot

[Musky Buck]

Big Dave that's part of why there isn't enough big bucks to go around. These 3 folk the 1 has over 1,000 acres to himself. We would all do well on that river bottom tract of land. It holds the best bucks in a 10 mile radius hands down. Do you think he'd bring a friend or relative along not a chance in., but you can tag one for him if you want. Then again a trophy buck to me is any buck 3.5 years or older. I don't score deer or want to even know if I get 1. Realize about the 3 guys, they all hunt a different county and have great spots, that is why 1 buck is not enough, got great spots so you must guard those properties just in case another shooter shows himself. Talk about Karma, even in these great spots at present time from at least the end of rifle season they were buckless, hahaha to them the deer god's were laughing this year.

[Gordie]

Musky Buck I would place a call to the CO to have them watch that tract next season as the guy can shoot a deer but has to have a person a field with him to party hunt or that the deer must be tagged before anything else can be done.

If a violation of ther law is not reported how can the violation ever be stopped and if no violation is being commited then let it be.

[harvey lee]

Purple floyd

Most of the TV shows have been filmed on alot of private property. many guides will take them for no charge to hunt thier fields so they can advertise thoier business. If it is on private property, no issue with me.

I have hunbted the whitetails on the Milk river area in Montana. Many shows do alot of filming in this area as it does offer some very good, quality trophy hunts.

I would guess the majority of the hunters for the shows do nothing other than show up for the hunt. Many of the guides have the bucks located and patterened and then they go in and set up a stand and film it.

They can shoots bucks all day long and it will never change how I hunt.

We do not have the people out there lining up the deer for us in advance. We have to scout the woods and pattern the bucks and then hunt them and the biggest majority of the hunters out there do not have that kind of time.

I really see nothing wrong with it as it is 100% legal.

They are hunting an open season with legal firearms during legal hours. They simply have help.

[Musky Buck]

Right on Elwood, I talked with a CO some about it during goose season, he said he is completely buried with calls and places to watch during rifle season, I said I can believe that unfortunately. He said the land I described was in his travels, he knew exactly where I was talking. I'm with you Harvey and will never be able to afford to go out west, but we know there's no 100% success rate on free ranging goats, we're at 38% here in MN according to what's registered.

[nolte]

Any group that is either "pro" or "anti" wolf will give supprt for their view. I try to form my opinion from as unbiased sources as I can find. I also never treat any source of information as the gospel. Just curious how many of you have had discussions with the USDA trappers who were/are in charge of removing problem wolves. If you have a chance I would also suggest reading an AK biologist report of his findings from AK attemtp at introducing wolves to Coronation island in 1964.

I don't want to get thread further off topic. But I believe we need a comprehensive management plan that takes into account all predators (not just wolves) and all management tools we can use to get a healthier overall deer herd with a balanced age structure. If someone has any wolf material that proves my theories false, feel free to send them on in a message. I am always interested in reading more on the subject (even if I disagree with it).

[nonteepical]

Everyone must be taking a break beating their heads against the wall.

[PurpleFloyd]

Purple floyd

Most of the TV shows have been filmed on alot of private property. many guides will take them for no charge to hunt thier fields so they can advertise thoier business. If it is on private property, no issue with me.

I have hunbted the whitetails on the Milk river area in Montana. Many shows do alot of filming in this area as it does offer some very good, quality trophy hunts.

I would guess the majority of the hunters for the shows do nothing other than show up for the hunt. Many of the guides have the bucks located and patterened and then they go in and set up a stand and film it.

They can shoots bucks all day long and it will never change how I hunt.

We do not have the people out there lining up the deer for us in advance. We have to scout the woods and pattern the bucks and then hunt them and the biggest majority of the hunters out there do not have that kind of time.

I really see nothing wrong with it as it is 100% legal.

They are hunting an open season with legal firearms during legal hours. They simply have help.

I was just being sarcastic Harvey.

I have no problem with those trophy hunters shooting all of those big deer as long as they leave the smaller tender eater ones for me.

[jnorm1984]

so purple, (might be getting off subject as I havent read the full thread for a while,..amazing that this one has been going on so long!) but, u are coming off as a meat hunter, witch im fine with, as long as each deer u shoot is a trophy to you, but this really goes out to all "meat" hunters....If you had a 190" deer at 75 yrds( im from shotgun country, open sights, so what ever is a long borderline shot for you), and you had a fork horn at 10 feet, with the same body size as the 190" (yes this is possible)... what do you take a crack at? Meat hunters should say the forky my mind says..................point is, everyone loves antlers! Even if they dont want to admit it!!

[john skarie]

That hypothetical situation means nothing. Just because I would/will shoot a "trophy" deer doesn't mean I'm going to support managing the MN deer herd the way "trophy" hunters want.

I've shot plenty of big bucks. Throughly enjoy it. But I'm not going to pass up a smaller buck because it isn't a trophy to someone else.

JS

[james_walleye]

There must be alot of "trophy hunters" in zone 3 considering the majority of zone 3 hunters are for some sort of protection for young bucks. Guess its just a different mindset down here.....

[james_walleye]

....or maybe you dont have to be a "trophy" hunter to be for protection for young bucks. First and foremost i put meat in my freezer. I know at some point i can put a doe in the freezer, whether its September or December. If i drop the hammer on a buck whether its bow or gun, its going to be mature. If i get one great, if i dont, doesnt break my heart. I think thats the mindset of alot of people down here, as well as some people outside of zone 3. Does this make me a "trophy" hunter?

[james_walleye]

And people can talk all they want about not being able to compare MN to Iowa, or Kansas ect. But you absolutely can compare SE MN to NE IA and i know MANY people who hunt both and the common theme is you wouldnt believe how 20-30 miles looks like a different world. Now I am speaking for zone 3, not the rest of the state. In general there is not an issue putting meat in the freezer. I see it as the best of both worlds. You can protect young bucks in an area while still putting meat in the freezer. I've always been one who just wanted to see the 3 year trial period play out here. Lets see what hunters think after seeing that trial period. If it goes like other states, hunter satisfaction will increase. What i find funny is people outside of zone 3 are afraid APR's will work and that it might be implemented elsewhere. First i dont think you will see APR's implemented in an area where 75% of people are against it initially. But second, if it is implemented in an area near you, its because it worked in zone 3. By working i mean that hunter satisfaction rose, and people liked it!! How is that a bad thing??