Attn: MN Gun Deer Hunters

[ANYFISH2]

1 hour ago, Big Dave2 said:

I agree with ANYFISH2 but you guys do realize that hunters are a tool used to control deer populations, right? I'm not too sure that you can get non-hunters on board with increasing deer populations so they can hit them with their Mercedes......

This is true Dave.

 

However, if hunters keep their image as stewards, and the conservationists they are to the public eye,  non-hunters are less likely to side with the anti- side at the ballot box.

 

Remember, only 9% of the population hunts, 11% are anti-hunter, the other 80% neutral.  We probably cant change the our image to the 20% for or against, but we as hunters NEED the 80% to lean our way every November. In the grand scheme, deer vs car is propably pretty low on thier list of concerns.

 Public infighting of the hunting/fishing crowd, which seems to see the press coverage, will stick in thier minds.

Edited March 26, 2018 by ANYFISH2

[leech~~]

On 3/23/2018 at 10:43 PM, leech~~ said:

Not being able to take their first Deer because a bunch of antler mongers want them to sit and count points as their first Deer is walking away. If anything, for the APR folks lets put an age limit on it so young folks can still take a few Deer before they want to give it up, because they can't shoot the deer they finally see or just Does.  I know my son's first buck was a fork horn but to him it was the terdy point buck!  

 

Someone seemed to have picked out the one thing in this post that they took to heart because may be it home, but they didn't mention the rest of it.

I don't see a huge detriment to the Deer herd by letting youths 10-16 taking a small buck. If they hunt in a Bucks Only area it could be years for them under the APR plan to get their first Deer. There are all kinds of special and early Youth hunts now to try and get more kids involved. But, just like the Older kids who are not happy with their hunting situations and want to give up because they can't shoot a nice rack. So, will the young kids who can't shoot anything!

Would I like to pop a big buck every few years, sure!  There are still big bucks out there but some of the problem with today's weekend hunters is they just don't have the time to spend scouting to get back in the craap off the road or Highline to where the big Bucks are hold up. Year after year they buzz up to their buddies cabin or Granddads hunten shack on opening weekend, jump in the woods a 100 yards off the road on opening day. Then complain about how their hunting area sucks because they only see ditch Doe's and fawns and no nice Bucks! 

 

Like anything else in life if you want it bad enough do some work, get back in the swamps and craap and find them. Yep it sucks not shooting one by the truck!

Edited March 26, 2018 by leech~~

[Big Dave2]

32 minutes ago, ANYFISH2 said:

This is true Dave.

 

However, if hunters keep their image as stewards, and the conservationists they are to the public eye,  non-hunters are less likely to side with the anti- side at the ballot box.

 

Remember, only 9% of the population hunts, 11% are anti-hunter, the other 80% neutral.  We probably cant change the our image to the 20% for or against, but we as hunters NEED the 80% to lean our way every November. In the grand scheme, deer vs car is propably pretty low on thier list of concerns.

 Public infighting of the hunting/fishing crowd, which seems to see the press coverage, will stick in thier minds.

 

I completely agree with most of this and that is exactly why I am against things like APR's and doing away with other hunting traditions. I don't think doing things to "manage the herd" just so we can shoot them sheds a good light on deer hunting in general. I think most anti-hunters and non-hunters are turned off by the fact that it seems so many hunters just want to shoot deer for the sport or the trophy. I do think most people can understand harvesting meet for the freezer though.

 

I'm not sure that most anti's or non-hunters even realize there is public infighting among hunters. OK, maybe the anti's do because they are more tuned in, looking for ways to undermine the hunting community but I think that by and large if you do not travel in those circles, you don't hear the news.

[Bass Whacker]

I'm just a bow hunter, and I suppose I'm one of those "antler mongers" since I support APR in the right areas, but just as an FYI APR does not apply to youth hunters(10-17 years old).  Its right in the regs on page 73, so that should not weigh into anyone's opinion of APR.  Don't get me wrong it's definitely not right for the entire state.  MN is way to diverse to have a regulation like that applied everywhere, but I think it has done great things in the area I hunt in SE MN.

 

Now I will bow back out so you can talk gun hunting!

[PurpleFloyd]

31 minutes ago, Bass Whacker said:

I'm just a bow hunter, and I suppose I'm one of those "antler mongers" since I support APR in the right areas, but just as an FYI APR does not apply to youth hunters(10-17 years old).  Its right in the regs on page 73, so that should not weigh into anyone's opinion of APR.  Don't get me wrong it's definitely not right for the entire state.  MN is way to diverse to have a regulation like that applied everywhere, but I think it has done great things in the area I hunt in SE MN.

 

Now I will bow back out so you can talk gun hunting!

That's an important point. For me the key is to give hunters the option to harvest a deer if they choose and if the population allows. I don't feel one should be forced to pass on an otherwise legal deer if that may be their only opportunity considering they are purchasing a license to harvest.

Now, if an area has so many deer and if the season is long enough that you stand a decent chance of taking a specific deer then site,standards may be worth looking at if that's what they choose to do.

 

But if you look at human nature it seems a pipe dream to think you will ever be able to have a herd on public land that will meet the standards annually that some are looking for.

 

For one thing it's a supply and demand situation. Anyone knows that when you get word out of bigger bucks in an area you immediately get a surge in hunters in that area. It's the same way with fish. A lake gets a good class of fish and suddenly the lake s overrun with boats and it gets fished out. That is human nature. 

Generally speaking when you get bigger deer,human nature turns people greedy and they act differently than they do otherwise and that spoils the experience. Sad as that is.

[delcecchi]

14 hours ago, Big Dave2 said:

I agree with ANYFISH2 but you guys do realize that hunters are a tool used to control deer populations, right? I'm not too sure that you can get non-hunters on board with increasing deer populations so they can hit them with their Mercedes......

The DNR talks explicitly about balancing the interest of the insurance industry, the farmers, and the hunters in setting population objectives.     

[Big Dave2]

1 hour ago, delcecchi said:

The DNR talks explicitly about balancing the interest of the insurance industry, the farmers, and the hunters in setting population objectives.     

 

Exactly why we are not likely to see deer populations as high as some here would like.

[Getanet]

I know the point of this new Facebook group isn't to push any specific legislation, but one thing that has always stuck in my craw is how/why any Facebook "group" gets a seat at the table when it comes to representing hunters, either with the DNR or Legislators.

 

For example, the MN Whitetail Alliance that would like to expand APRs and claims to be one of the largest hunting groups in the state. There are no membership dues, no elections for its leadership, no board of directors, no annual meeting...nothing that real organizations have. All it takes is for someone to hit the Like button to be considered a member - whether they are passionate about the cause, just curious, or against it.

 

Just a pet peeve of mine.

[Satchmo]

19 hours ago, Getanet said:

I know the point of this new Facebook group isn't to push any specific legislation, but one thing that has always stuck in my craw is how/why any Facebook "group" gets a seat at the table when it comes to representing hunters, either with the DNR or Legislators.

 

For example, the MN Whitetail Alliance that would like to expand APRs and claims to be one of the largest hunting groups in the state. There are no membership dues, no elections for its leadership, no board of directors, no annual meeting...nothing that real organizations have. All it takes is for someone to hit the Like button to be considered a member - whether they are passionate about the cause, just curious, or against it.

 

Just a pet peeve of mine.

Very good observation. To quote commissioner Landwehr, "You don't get what you want, you get what you fight for".  While this new group was put together to try and help hunters stay informed, there are others out there that are actively lobbying for their personal agendas quite heavily. MWA claims to be a collaboration of several deer hunting groups with around 14,000 followers. They also claim to be a Non-profit, but I was unable to find them registered with the state of MN. (This does not mean they aren't, since no group that takes in less than $50K/year are required to file a form 990). Other groups haven't filed a 990 form in over a decade. I would suggest that anyone out there looking to join a conservation group do some due diligence, and look in to exactly what that groups goals, agenda, affiliations, and relationships to other organizations are. While some are exactly what they state and appear to be, others have very cozy relationships with the DNR, QDMA, the deer farm industry, the timber industry, insurance companies, etc...  Like the current political climate, those that scream the loudest have a better chance to get what they want. Some of the actual registered nonprofits with fairly small memberships are getting the ear of the DNR by renting booths at outdoor events, running active Facebook pages, and getting blurbs in the editorial sections of outdoor publications. One such group does a lot of "Polls" on its sight of less than 500 followers, always seems to get the result they want, and then touts this as how all hunters in MN feel. I highly suspect that this SE MN, pro APR group of trophy hunting bow hunters is very in touch with the 500,000 gun hunters of MN. While I don't have a specific agenda, I do not have a problem calling out these special interest groups that claim to speak for the majority of hunters in this state.  Those that sit back and just let the DNR make our herd decisions without input, will get exactly what the loudest special interest groups want in the end and have no right to gripe about it. Just ask commissioner Landwehr. 

 

Sorry for the rant.

[monstermoose78]

Again the northern deer herd biggest population controller is Mother Nature! Wolves factor in to this as well. I am totally against more laws telling me what I can harvest for a deer. If this poop passes I am done deer hunting and I will grouse Hunt during the deer season just to piss off deer hunters. 

[Satchmo]

27 minutes ago, monstermoose78 said:

Again the northern deer herd biggest population controller is Mother Nature! Wolves factor in to this as well. I am totally against more laws telling me what I can harvest for a deer. If this poop passes I am done deer hunting and I will grouse Hunt during the deer season just to piss off deer hunters. 

I don't think any major changes are imminent at this point, but let's face it monstermoose78, you and I, along with everyone else have been told what we can shoot our whole lives. Look no further than applying for doe permits, buck lotteries, intensive harvest, bucks only areas, youth permits,  rifle/shotgun zones, early doe seasons, late doe seasons, and current APR zones. Make no mistake about it, the rules and regulations will change in the future. You can either be for them, against them, or apathetic, but change they will. I would just like the whole process to more open and democratic, instead of letting the loud get their way. I'd also like to see the general gun hunting population get as much say in things as the lobbyists. 

[Hoyt4]

No APR is all I have to add. If more APR happens I know i would hang up my bow or just keep hunting other states .

[BRULEDRIFTER]

I wouldn't be too worried about APR's in the Arrowhead region of MN. Between the harsh winters, uncontrolled wolves, bears and the DNR out to kill whatever's left to save the moose, our deer heard will always be way too low to try and manage antler points. 

 

[monstermoose78]

Around my home area of Princeton people say there ain’t any big bucks. They just need to know where to look or learn how to hunt better. My example is muskies the a while back a 40 incher was a good one the they moved the size to 48 inches. Then people caught 50 inch fish now they are at 54 inches and not all muskies get that big ever. I see deer going down the same path. there is a monster 6 pointer can’t shoot em cause he is only 3 per side.

 

For the people who want to shoot big bucks great you do as I do let the little ones walk, but we don’t need more rules. Next thing you know you will not be able shoot a drake mallard unless it has 4 curls or a Tom turkey unless it has 1.25 spurs or bigger and 11 inch beard. Let people make the choice what to harvest.

 

Look at Mille Lacs lake by letting all the bigger walleyes try to grow and now they are eating everything including young walleyes. If you choose not to shoot a deer for whatever reason great but if someone else shoots it great don’t be jealous or mad, but be happy it did not get wasted from being hit by a car. 

18 hours ago, BRULEDRIFTER said:

I wouldn't be too worried about APR's in the Arrowhead region of MN. Between the harsh winters, uncontrolled wolves, bears and the DNR out to kill whatever's left to save the moose, our deer heard will always be way too low to try and manage antler points. 

 

 

 the state parks allowing the taking of does on the state parks, but they forget those deer migrate in the arrowhead. Heck this year most of the state parks allowed two does per hunter to be taken.

[Samanthaames]

I would like to join your group.

[PurpleFloyd]

7 hours ago, Samanthaames said:

I would like to join your group.

You already are. Check your email and reply to it with your driver's license, social security number and bank account information so we can send you your free, no obligation merchandise. 

[Grainbelt]

1 hour ago, Georgemcoy said:

How do they catch the deer?

They dig a hole and fill it with wood and start a fire in it. When the fire burns down and is cool they line the perimeter of the hole with peas.

When the deer come to the edge to take a pea they kick them in the ashhole.