Expected worst Deer harvest in 20 years!

[laker1]

When all said and done in the past and in the future,the average hunter is going to shoot a deer only 33-40% of the time statewide.

Most studies I seen when wolf populations are pretty much saturated with a pack of 6 wolves they will average 3 deer per square mile. Now that will vary some of coarse.

Look at zone 172 hunters took 15.5 deer/square mile a few years ago. Last year around 3 deer/sq mile.

Yes wolves probably took three and hunters 17,combined that is way over harvest. Throw in two hard winters. At present zone 172 population is very low.

[leech~~]

Outlawing trail cams so people have the same chance as those who don't.

Let me see if I can make this real easy for you?

Just because you take a picture of a Vikings cheerleader, it just means shes there.

It doesn't mean your going to get her! Get it!

It's all in the hunt man!

[laker1]

Trail cams do help at times. That doesn't mean outlaw them.

Overall tho,equipment changes over the years has made the hunter more effective.

Warmer clothing,better deer stands,better rifles-scopes(go back to the 60's most people didn't have scopes yet),deer scents, deer knowledge,food plots,maps etc..

I truly believe these make the hunter more efficient than years ago. Use to be if you owned a pair of old Air Force white bunny boots you really had something. I suppose nobody but me is old enough to remember Bunny boots?

[jay83196]

Everything evolves, also more competition less animals/fish makes it harder.

[Todd Caswell]

No doubt the deer population is down from a few years ago, is it too low now? Maybe, was it too high at it's peak? Maybe. Bottom line there are deer to be seen and harvested in every portion of the state, if your not seeing deer or sign MOVE. We are blessed with tens of thousands of acres of public land in Mn. and ALOT of it won't have a foot print on it all season if it's more than a mile from the closest road. If more people treated there deer season like fishing they would have alot more luck. If you were to take a weeks vacation to fish would you go out to the same point, toss out your anchor and sit there for the week if you weren't marking or seeing fish? Hellll NO, well if your not seeing deer or deer sign, then move.. Sometimes you don't have to move far to find what your looking for..

[laker1]

It average deer hunter wants to get his deer and get out of the woods as fast as he can. People hunt the first weekend and many quit after that.

[kingr]

My Dad and his 2 partners bought our deer camp in 1982. Since then it has grown to 18 on opening weekend with all of us kids growing up. I say opening weekend because the majority of the guys now only hunt 1-3 days total. We have about 7-8 of us that stay the entire 9 days. We have kept journals since the beginning. There was a couple years in the 80's where they didn't shoot a deer. The all time high was 13 in the early 2000's. The camp average for the last 32 years is 6, this year we shot 5. Last year we shot 3. We all hunt on the Tamarac refuge. Game cameras, fancy stands, 4-wheelers are all illegal. Wolves have been present since the 90's.

Do your homework, scout and put hours in the field and it will pay off. Like Todd said, it's no different than fishing, except when there's snow, it's easier to figure out if they're actually there or not.

[kelly-p]

From an article in the Duluth Tribune.

Quote:

Sam Cook column: Hunters reflect on a lean season

Quote:

Perhaps Josh and Jeremy Graves, the 41-year-old twins at the Graves camp, appreciated being at the shack more than most. Two or three weeks ago, both were in Afghanistan. They were finishing a six-month deployment as engineers with the 148th Fighter Wing of the Minnesota Air National Guard in Duluth.

“I’m just glad to be home,” Jeremy said.

The silence after his words left room for a lot of interpretation. Someone across the room asked if the two brothers had been in danger where they were stationed.

“Yeah,” Jeremy said. “There was shelling.”

That was all he said. The room grew quiet for a bit. Finally, Mike Graves spoke.

“Kind of puts the deer hunting all in perspective, doesn’t it?” he said.

[uffdapete]

Well said Canopy.

Fish and game management is a science where you apply the best techniques you can.

Most DNR employees are very well educated, trained and even more passionate about their work. They do what they do because they enjoy it.

And believe it or not, very few have any "agenda" other than making the best recommendations they can using the best science they have.

Also keep in mind that many times rules and regs are set by those you elect, not by trained professionals paid to manage resources.

P.S.

Thanks too Kelly for the piece from the Duluth paper. My son also returned a year ago from there.... with some PTSD. He seems to be dealing with it okay but is reluctant to talk much about his time there and probably will be for a few years.

[laker1]

Agree on the DNR statement,the employees are dedicated individuals with no big DNR plot. They just want to do what is best. Yes sometimes mistakes are made. Overall they have done a great job.

I do wish Wildlife would listen to the public a little more and the public get involved and actually talk one on one to DNR staff. Instead of just talking here.

[BLACKJACK]

I will add, that if the population isn't high enough, it will never work, and that the DNR must take caution in handing out too many doe tags so the population doesn't crash.

Bingo!!! Its fine to talk about APR's and bigger bucks but if you have a low deer population/a zone where you have to apply for doe permits, and then you implement APR's, you're going to pizz off a lot of hunters, drive them out of the sport, if they don't have an at least an opportunity to shoot a deer, any deer.

[BLACKJACK]

Here's my 2 cents. Quit have the gun season during the rut! Let these bucks at least get the chance to breed the does. I even think a buck lottery system should get implemented. At least in SW MN do it. Having the slug season during the rut is just plain stupid in my opinion. And people wonder why we never get the "monster bucks". Hmm, I wonder why?

Not a bad idea, would make the 'big buck hunters' happy by limiting the buck kill and would also make the 'average Joe' hunter happy because he'd still be able to get a tag and hunt. The downside would be colder weather for a later season.

[nofishfisherman]

I do wish Wildlife would listen to the public a little more and the public get involved and actually talk one on one to DNR staff. Instead of just talking here.

For those that want a voice and want to get involved you might want to check this out. Perfect chance to get involved and have a voice.

DNR Deer Goal Setting Volunteers

[CANOPY SAM]

Agree on the DNR statement,the employees are dedicated individuals with no big DNR plot. They just want to do what is best. Yes sometimes mistakes are made. Overall they have done a great job.

I do wish Wildlife would listen to the public a little more and the public get involved and actually talk one on one to DNR staff. Instead of just talking here.

It's happening Laker1, but as I stated earlier, it's going to take time. These issues aren't going to be solved overnight.

I believe someone said, "How much time?", following my last post. Answer, as much time as it takes.

I don't recall the exact years, I think it was 98' or 99' when they closed the season up north of us (along the Canadian border). The deer herd had been decimated by the winter/spring of 96'/97'. Hunting pressure and wolf depredation had very little to do with that crash.

They went for a short time with a bucks only season, but I believe it was only a few short years and the deer herd rebounded nicely, and now there seems to be very good numbers of deer in the area.

Patience, tact, perseverance, level-thinking, willingness to make a few sacrifices. It's going to take all of this combined to make positive change.

It took many years to get Upper Red Lake back on track. That took extraordinary patience, and a LOT of people from several different backgrounds to finally bring about a positive outcome. In the end, pretty much everyone had to admit their guilt in bringing about the crash. And once everyone realized that there was no particular person, or group of people to blame, then they were able to get down to the real work and get it all turned around.

Set aside the blame guys. People make mistakes. If you're going to live your entire life simply wallowing in bitterness over how many "other" people have screwed up your life/hunting/fishing, people as a whole are going to stop listening to your complaining, and you're going to spend the majority of your life alone.

It's refreshing to see some of you pointing directly at the solution here. Thanks for posting!

[SmellEsox]

Agree on the DNR statement,the employees are dedicated individuals with no big DNR plot. They just want to do what is best. Yes sometimes mistakes are made. Overall they have done a great job.

I do wish Wildlife would listen to the public a little more and the public get involved and actually talk one on one to DNR staff. Instead of just talking here.

I agree with your statement and others that DNR Wildlife folks making management decisions are good and intelligent folks. The disconnect between hunters and them, is that they are trained more as ecologists. They want fewer deer than hunters do. Way fewer. It is how they were trained in college. Fewer deer is better socially and ecologically. And they are taking it to the extreme here in MN. They are great deer managers. They just have a philosophy that is counter to what most hunters in MN want. As was stated in the past, some deer managers still wanted IH and even early antlerless seasons in some areas that have been hammered for years. So yes, they are good at managing deer according to their philosophy. Not necessarily for the avid deer hunter.

[BuckSutherland]

For those that want a voice and want to get involved you might want to check this out. Perfect chance to get involved and have a voice.

DNR Deer Goal Setting Volunteers

I signed up.

[BLACKJACK]

I've slogged thru all these posts since last week and the one conclusion I can draw is that people are passionate about their deer hunting!!!!

One factor that hasn't been mentioned here is the longer deer seasons nowadays. A few years ago the DNR lengthened the seasons, didn't limit you to a certain weekend, gave you more 'opportunity' to hunt more days, with the idea that your license and zone - Managed, Hunter Choice, etc - would be the limiting factor, you could only shoot the number of deer that your license allowed.

Nice idea, it gives you more days to hunt, but it also puts more pressure on the deer, if you're a big buck hunter, it give you more days to sort thru the bucks. Even if all you want is a doe for the freezer, it gives you more days to accomplish that. Not sure the DNR has accounted for that additional pressure in their calcs.

[Jameson]

In times of rebuilding the herd splitting the hunters up into separate seasons can help reduce the pressure on the deer. Wonder if it was considered this year, or next?

[CaptainMusky]

Blackjack, that is an interesting point that I was thinking about as well. I remember when the slug season was 2 days and a second 4 day season.

Doe permits good only in your area. You had to hunt only in your zone for bucks.

Now its a free for all. I personally like that chance to hunt anywhere in the state and just follow the rules of that area, but I have to think at least in the slug zone it has lead to a larger harvest.

[hockeybc69]

Absolutely positively there is a correlation of lowering harvests comparing the old zone 4, and moving to zone 2 and full 9 day season.

Zone 4 you used to have to pick a weekend to hunt. Either first or second weekend. There was the All Season license which allowed hunting over both weekends, but that was limited in numbers.

So in zone 4 we used to have a split of hunters in the woods. First weekend had a group of people, second weekend had a different group of people. Everyone was split, so pressure on deer was FAR less. Plus there was 5 days closed to gun hunting between the seasons.

Switching to Zone 2, all of a sudden the entire hunting population of the zone 4 could now not only hunt both weekends, but also the 9 straight days. Thats a HUGE increase in pressure on deer, and only leads to one thing... A lot more deer that got shot, that likley had a much better chance of survival with the old zone 4 regs.

Since day one of zone 2, I have not been a fan at all of it. And we have seen a very dramatic change in hunting since then.

PA240 used to hover around 5000 deer harvested annually. Since the onset of zone 2 in 2007, our harvest has dropped every year accept one season. We are now down 35% in annual harvest from 2007 to 2013... wait till the 2014 results come in. It will approach a 50% decrease in harvest in only 7 hunting seasons.

But I guess there is no problem. Its wind, rain, corn, wolves and severe winters that are all the cause of the steep decline in deer harvest....

[PurpleFloyd]

One thing that did happen with the change in seasons in the slug zone is there are fewer guys driving around sections road hunting. There are also very few drives going on anymore and more are setting up permanent blinds and sitting rather than pushing the deer around with drives.

We are not harvesting more or less deer but we are more apt to wait for another day if the conditions are not good.although this season that was pretty much every day lol.

[Getanet]

Changes to regulations is an interesting point. We often look at the harvest reports and try to compare Season X to Season Y, but the regulations aren't static. I can almost guarantee you 5 years from now we will be trying to compare the 2014 harvest to some other year, and most of us will have forgotten that bonus tags were nearly eliminated, it was bucks only in many areas of the state, the DNR was actively trying to reduce the harvest this year, etc.

[UNDBowhunter]

OK Here is my rant on DNR Deer Management..... In a nutshell - They need to LISTEN and be more TRANSPARENT to the hunters and landowners of MN.

- I hunt in different states, and this state is horrible with public outreach/information in regards to Deer Management. The first of these meetings in MN were this spring - due to finally enough bit#$%^&.

- In Kansas, when you buy a license, they get your email address. They email you a survey (They know what zone you hunted) ask how your hunting is. This is needed here. This would "red flag" what zones need attention from hunters.

- Part of MN DEER Management is based on license sales PERIOD. If it wasn't then you could buy one license (Bow, Gun, Muzzleloader) and shoot a deer during that season.(just like Montana). Why do we need to buy three licenses for one deer- I would be happier to know that my three license sales were actually going to good management!

- Lastly, the DNR needs to inform the public what zone goals and harvest is for each zome. The first of this was this spring at the DNR listening sessions. They could use some lessons from the MN DNR fish guys - click on a lake and see what has been stocked and whats in the lake. WHY can't MN DNR deer managers have this similar data fashion for each zome? THIS is not rocket science to make this available to the public on the DNR webpage.

[CANOPY SAM]

UND...that sounds like terrific advice to share with the DNR Deer managers. I'd be willing to wager they'd appreciate the ideas.

[Fishalittle]

It still all falls on the hunters and only shooting what your land or area can handle. Our group of 7 shot 4 bucks this year. 2 above average, 1 wall mounter and a scrub that needed to be out of the gene pool. This is private land and we chose not to take a single doe to help the herd. Last year this same group shot 1 buck....the out of state elk hunts helped with that season. We all enjoy to eat venison but also don't see the need to fill every tag! If we had the old zones likely the same amount of deer would have fallen....we can just be more selective now. the argument goes both ways but in the end we all need to manage....how many times we pull that trigger!