My turn for a gun question...

[Neighbor_guy]

I just dropped off a pair of gun safe Bettie's with a family friend who runs the local gun shop. He will either sell them on consignment for me or trade them for something different. Here it the dilemma I now face:

I need a deer gun for my daughter. She is 10years old this year and can start her two years of apprentice hunting this season. I have guns she can use if I can't find what I am looking for, but while I know a .410 and a .223 will do the job I don't think they are the right choice for a first timer. As an individual who has become very recoil sensitive I have come to like my single shot 20ga ultraslug and am going to have her shoot it but don't necessarily want to re sight it repeatedly. I know I could fit her to an AR, and ballistically it's equal to a 30-30 at the ranges she would be shooting(+/- 35yds) but it doesn't leave much margins for error.

Some brief background. She is 4'6" tall and 65lbs with her boots on, and has never shot anything more than a .22lr.

I am leaning towards another 20ga single shot. Maybe something that has interchangeable barrels so that it has a bird gun/slug gun.

On the other hand, I also like the idea of a rifle and am considering a 7mm08 as a good soft recoil option that's not a .243 (having fired both, I think the 7-08 is a nicer gun to shoot) the trouble is finding something in that caliber that has a short length of pull.

Has anyone here (possibly someone with a fairly petite daughter/wife) gone through this and be willing to share what direction you went and what lead you to that decision?

Also, I should note, I am not a brand loyal guy so that's not an issue, I like nice things and am willing to spend a little more if I feel the quality is there. But I'm not looking for a $5k gun either. Just reasonable suggestions for a kid who if genetics mean anything will only end up being 5' and small change when all is said and done.

Thanks

[deerminator]

I have no experience but soon hopefully will with a 7 year old girl at home. I am thinking about something for my 10 year old boy and while at Prairie Pothole Days this past weekend talked to a gunsmith at a booth and he recommended avoiding a designated youth setup. He said you'll often pay a premium for the specialty of it and said instead, buy something they'll grow into and have a modified stock put on. Then they'll have it forever and can just switch the stock when they outgrow it. Just a thought. Havent made our decision yet.

[monstermoose78]

Semi auto 20 gauge will reduce the recoil and you can get a youth model. Plus she could us it on birds.

[fishuhalik]

Ditto monstermoose, that sounds like a great option

[PurpleFloyd]

It depends on the accuracy you are looking for. I live in slug only territory and when my son was that age I bought him a Mossberg youth SA08 20g semi auto (weatherby sells the same gun now)and that gun was great. Very very light and he did very well with it but no slug barrel is available so the range is limited.

In a rifle a youth .243 is going to be the easiest to find off the shelf but if not that lots of calibers will kill deer.

[nitro640]

An Ar in 6.8 is a nice deer rifle

[skee0025]

I have a 20ga ultraslug thats just taking up space in my safe. My area opened to rifle and I no longer have a use for it. If it goes to help get a youngster into the game I'm willing to let it go cheap.

[fr0sty]

I have read there are managed recoil loads for .270 that have equal or lesser recoil than a standard .243 That could suit her well as a lifelong gun when she gets bigger.

I read some good advice here that will apply to whichever load you choose. Be sure to use quality hearing protection when shooting. The noise is a huge factor in how a shooter reacts to recoil. Also, after the first shot, don't ask her how much it kicked. Ask her to see how well she shot. That takes the focus off recoil and on to the task at hand. It worked great with my daughter.

Good luck!

[Gus]

The Ruger American line has a compact model which you can get in 7mm-08. I don't know if that will be the right size for her, but it's what I have been considering for my son's first deer rifle when the time comes. Length of pull is 12.5" compared to 13.75" on the standard.

[nofishfisherman]

I have read there are managed recoil loads for .270 that have equal or lesser recoil than a standard .243 That could suit her well as a lifelong gun when she gets bigger.

Remington Core Lokts are available with managed recoil loads. I have shot them in my .270. They could be an option for her. They are relatively cheap as well at $20/box. If you have a .270 or 30-06 you could give them a try in your rifle to see what you think of the recoil reduction and determine if it would be an option for her.

I really enjoy shooting them at the range. You can shoot all day long without feeling like you've gotten beat up by the end of the day.

[leechlake]

I will leave the gun choice to others.

I learned with my son when he was young was to get a sled bed type shooting gun rest for practicing. The thing takes almost all recoil away from the gun. Practice is when they pay attention the most.

[nofishfisherman]

I will leave the gun choice to others.

I learned with my son when he was young was to get a sled bed type shooting gun rest for practicing. The thing takes almost all recoil away from the gun. Practice is when they pay attention the most.

I agree that reducing recoil during practice is the biggest thing. If they can develop good shooting habits at the range without recoil being an issue then those habits will carry over to the stand. When they are out in the stand with a deer in their sights the last thing they'll be thinking about is the recoil.

[MinDak Hunter]

I had a little trouble with the chart I hope you can read it ok. I'd go with a .243 myself and a controlled-expansion bullet (100grain).

Do not forget that rifle weight is a crucial factor in the recoil equation, inversely proportional to recoil. Increase the gun weight by, say, 25% and the recoil goes down by 25%. In the real world, firearms chambered for less powerful cartridges are typically built lighter than firearms chambered for more powerful cartridges. Violate this principle by, for example, chambering a lightweight, short action rifle for a powerful Magnum cartridge like the .300 WSM and the result will be a dramatic increase in kick. Just because it can be done does not mean it makes sense, despite what you might read in advertising copy. Choose a rifle weight appropriate for the loads you intend to shoot.

However, perceived recoil, what the shooter feels, is a highly subjective matter. In addition to gun weight, it is influenced by many factors. One of the most important of these is the fit and shape of the rifle stock. A good recoil pad can help soften the blow to the shooter's shoulder. Gas-operated semi-automatic actions reduce apparent recoil by spreading it over a longer period of time. These sorts of things cannot be accounted for in a recoil table. Also, please understand that there are dozens of loads for any given bullet weight in any cartridge that will produce the same velocity, but a different amount of recoil. So the figures in any recoil table should be taken as approximate. Never-the-less, the table below should give a reasonably accurate comparison of the recoil of most popular rifle cartridges.

Cartridge, Rifle Weight, Recoil energy, Recoil velocity

(Wb@MV, (lbs), (foot pounds), (feet/second)

.223 Rem. (62gr. at 3025) 7.0lbs 3.9ftlb 6.0fps

.243 Win. (100 at 2960) 7.5lbs 8.8ftlb 8.7fps

.25-06 Rem. (120 at 3000) 8.0lbs 12.5ftlb 10.0fps

.270 Win. (140 at 3000) 8.0lbs 17.1ftlb 11.7fps

7mm-08 Rem. (140 at 2860) 8.0lbs 12.6ftlb 10.1fps

.30-30 Win. (150 at 2400) 7.5 10.6ftlb 9.5fps

.308 Win. (150 at 2800) 7.5 15.8ftlb 11.7fps

.30-06 Spfd. (150 at 2910) 8.0 17.6ftlb 11.9fps

Google this if you want more info "Rifle Recoil Table By Chuck Hawks"

[Moose]

I have a .410,20 gauge,243,and a 7mm-08 I've shot way more deer with the .410 than any of the others. The 7mm-08 kicks like a mule compared to the .410 and that's why if I'm hunting short range in the woods the .410 comes out. The rest are safe queens unless I'm set up for 100+ yards then the .243 comes out. Send me a message I may have something for you.

[HNTNBUX]

I would also suggest a reduced load in your muzzle loader unless you are set on a new gun. At the ranges you are talking about I think that this could be a viable option.

[Archerysniper]

Mine shoots my Rem 7400 6mm out of the Lear sled with no problem and she is a tiny 8 year old.

You have also met Molly spearing with MJ,she has been borrowing my .243 7400 for the last 2 or 3 years

[Gordie]

Another thing that will help is don't fuss over recoil its not that big a deal and if you make it out to be it will only mean that much more trauma for the young one.

I customized a 7mm mauser for my son, 14 yrs old, and he loves shooting it. The 7mm mauser is as effective a caliber than any that you have mentioned, and it doesn't pack the terrible recoil too. I shoot 139 grain bullets out of it and the kid can drive tacks with it.

[mt1017]

I bought both my kids son and daughter a savage. 7 mm08 and neither one had a problem shooting it and both have shot multiple deer IMO it is a good gun for kids

[Neighbor_guy]

I guess as of today I am looking at waiting a little bit and not rushin in. The idea if a handi rifle I'm 30/30 or 7mm08 is nice and it's where I think I want to end up, but with the 11 1/4" length of pull it would make it difficult to use for an adult should she not like it.

I'm thinking a call to Gordy might be in order to see if I can get a red dot mounted to my current .410 bolt action and track down some 3"brenneke slugs.

She's just too small and petite to invest in something until shes grown a bit.

Thanks for the advice guys.

[MJ1657]

Mollie was very concerned about recoil when I started her out when she was 10. Any time guns were brought up she asked how bad they kicked. I put her first 20 gauge in my lead sled and let her shoot. I never heard another word about it after that.

[Archerysniper]

Have you looked at the Rossi ranch hand levers? The come in 357 38 special 44 mag and 45 long colt.

[leech~~]

Another fun little gun if you are in a rifle zone and can still find one is the Ruger 44 carbine. One of our guys in Deer camp had one and it was a fun little gun to shoot. Light weight and spit out 5 rounds in seconds!

[Wanderer]

Goose can play with our .243 anytime to see how she handles it. It's on a youth platform.

[Gordie]

Great idea arch and if you need to try out a 357 NG I have one in a. Topper style survival rifle you could use to try it out. My yoingest shot his first deer with it.