Gun numbers from DNR

[BRULEDRIFTER]

^^^^^ Ding!

[BuckSutherland]

One thing to keep in mind, the deer population isn't solely managed for the benefit of us hunters. They also take into account crop losses for farmer, habitat destruction/carrying capacity as well as deer/vehicle accidents and their associated costs.

The DNR is once again re-evaluating population goals. You can find out more at http://news.dnr.state.mn.us/2013/11/07/dnr-revisiting-deer-population-goals-offers-online-sign-up/

All I read in that bulletin was that they were going to evaluate populations in the 300 areas.

Once again they cater to the hunters in SE MN and the heck with the rest of us. Are they that busy that they cant evaluate all permit areas??? Maybe if they took a few less vacations to Breezy Point they could look at the whole state and not just one part, especially since last Winter many areas in the north had the worst winter severity index possible. You, know, the same areas where they cant figure out why the moose are dying too.

[mntatonka]

All I read in that bulletin was that they were going to evaluate populations in the 300 areas.

Once again they cater to the hunters in SE MN and the heck with the rest of us. Are they that busy that they cant evaluate all permit areas??? Maybe if they took a few less vacations to Breezy Point they could look at the whole state and not just one part, especially since last Winter many areas in the north had the worst winter severity index possible. You, know, the same areas where they cant figure out why the moose are dying too.

I wish they'd stop catering to us in the SE and leave us alone. We had a good thing going, then they come in and screw it up with more regulations that don't make any sense.

[pikestabber]

My area went from Hunter's Choice in '12 to Lottery in '13, and no one in our party drew a doe tag. We managed to go 4/4 bucks, which we prefer anyhow, but does anyone have a number for how many licenses would allow a doe to be harvested this year vs. last year, and could that account for some of the harvest decline? I am not arguing the numbers seemed low, and even though we fared well, I heard more shots by noon on opening day last year then ALL of this year, which is concerning, but just curious how many areas went from Choice to Lotto, or how many doe tags/Choice areas were available this year vs. last. Is that info published anywhere?

[TruthWalleyes]

Once again they cater to the hunters in SE MN and the heck with the rest of us.

That's where the biggest gripers are...Just start naming whitetail associations.

[mntatonka]

My area went from Hunter's Choice in '12 to Lottery in '13, and no one in our party drew a doe tag. We managed to go 4/4 bucks, which we prefer anyhow, but does anyone have a number for how many licenses would allow a doe to be harvested this year vs. last year, and could that account for some of the harvest decline? I am not arguing the numbers seemed low, and even though we fared well, I heard more shots by noon on opening day last year then ALL of this year, which is concerning, but just curious how many areas went from Choice to Lotto, or how many doe tags/Choice areas were available this year vs. last. Is that info published anywhere?

Once the final report is out it could be extrapolated from the 2012 hunter numbers in that area (all able to tag a doe) vs how many doe permits were given out in 2013.

Heck, if you know how many doe permits were available in that area this year, you can already figure out that number since last year's data regarding how many hunters there were in that area are already available.

[Musky Buck]

From my reading northern Minnesota sw parts shouldn't have had a season and when we have a true million head of whitetails people still go deerless. Even at 290K taken that's like 50% maybe maybe and we sell like 3/4 million tags quite often so it's hunting. How can we decipher who puts in how much time in the field, who bow hunts and rifle and muzzleloader hunts, who scouts, who will forgo a bad wind direction, who has that secondary stand choice and gets out of that fishhouse on stilts that every deer in the section knows is polluted with human scent. Who had a heavy dose of wolves in their hunting area the night before season, there's a lot of variables it isn't all on the dnr unless you want them to start breeding the herd for us, think they tell the does to drop their fawns during bad springs and winters, many wanted these longer seasons when they began when mild winters and strong deer numbers were the norm, now what we just keep thinning the thin herd with timberwolves doing a nice job also. We have what a 1/2 mill with guns, over 100K with a bow, 50-60K with a muzzleloader and longer seasons with unknown winters and springs. People not registering deer to extend their season and include the muzzleloader, people baiting, the whole thing the whole works is just a bit out of control really. My best advice is take up the bow. Someday I'll take my own advice.

[Gofishleech]

purple,

anyone who is basing state wide hunting quality on what their party observed during the year is wrong. That goes both ways though. If you're group had a great year, that's great but irrelevant statistically just as a party of ten who only saw one deer is statistically irrelevant.

What is true is that less deer were killed and that's mainly because deer numbers are down. We've had a deer poplulation of one million for one million years according to the DNR,

+3, leech do hunt around Kab?

[PurpleFloyd]

purple,

anyone who is basing state wide hunting quality on what their party observed during the year is wrong. That goes both ways though. If you're group had a great year, that's great but irrelevant statistically just as a party of ten who only saw one deer is statistically irrelevant.

What is true is that less deer were killed and that's mainly because deer numbers are down. We've had a deer poplulation of one million for one million years according to the DNR,

First off, I never said that my experience was a statewide phenomenon. It merely reflected what our group sees in our area.

Secondly-You just made the point I have been saying all along in the APR debate. The idea of implementing mandatory APR statewide as several guys on this forum want certainly is wrong as the state is so diverse that you will not get the same results in all corners of the state.

Thirdly- My post about success is every bit as valid as the posts that state they saw nothing. You never accept one without considering the other. However, if only the bad are posted and none of the good then you get a biased sample size and unless you have an agenda you should welcome diverse reports.

[Bureaucrat]

I personally don't know any farmers who even mention deer as a threat to their yields. If wildlife damage to crops was a real problem, the concern should be turned on the raccoon population. I've seen them destroy a lot more corn than any deer herd.

[mntatonka]

I personally don't know any farmers who even mention deer as a threat to their yields. If wildlife damage to crops was a real problem, the concern should be turned on the raccoon population. I've seen them destroy a lot more corn than any deer herd.

I know 5 in my immediate area. All lost 20% plus of their corn to deer. Most also had depredation permits to try to lower the population in this area, along with an early antlerless season. Raccoon populations are way down in the southeast, you don't even see any hit on the road anymore. Granted, they tend to go in a pretty regular cycle, so they'll bounce back in a few years.

[bowhunternw]

I know 5 in my immediate area. All lost 20% plus of their corn to deer. Most also had depredation permits to try to lower the population in this area, along with an early antlerless season. Raccoon populations are way down in the southeast, you don't even see any hit on the road anymore. Granted, they tend to go in a pretty regular cycle, so they'll bounce back in a few years.

[mntatonka]

Huh?

That wasn't an exaggeration. 20% was the minimum that these guys lost. Some were up to 30%, almost entirely to deer.

[laker1]

All areas of the state are not the same,that is why you have so many deer zones.

[hockeybc69]

So you are saying that a 100 acre field, 20 to 30 acres were cleaned out completely by deer?

I have never ever in my life seen or heard of anything close to that. Ever. My family members have farmed since I was born and i have never heard anything close to that, and thats if deer depredation was ever even brought up as a concern at all.

[Uncle Rico]

That wasn't an exaggeration. 20% was the minimum that these guys lost. Some were up to 30%, almost entirely to deer.

Maybe their "fields" were actually the size of a garden?

[leechlake]

I'm just throwing out some math. 200 bushels per acre so 40-60 bushels deer ate per acre. 160 acre field deer ate 6400-9600 bushels of corn in a quarter mile and I assume this was in three months or so? If that's true it's amazing. If there were 30 deer per square mile, which is a lot, that's about 8 per quarter mile so taking 8000 bushels as an average that's 1000 bushels of corn in three months per deer or 11 bushels a day.

Now that I've done the math I don't believe a deer can eat that much. Feel free to question my specific math but even it it's half right it's not plausible.

[TruthWalleyes]

A lot of animal damage, trampling, picking, etc can happen when the crops are at a young age. A solid deer trail on a young corn field can probably cause more damage than them eating it. Just saying, damage doesn't start when kernels are present. 20% is a lot though, and some fields are quite small, and tucked into wooded areas. In certain situations i could easily see that much damage. On an 80acre field though, that would be pretty drastic. Lots of other things playing a factor on corn yields this year as well, least of all compaction from planting at a poor/wet time which many were forced to do.

[mntatonka]

Remember, much of the southeast is bluffland, where the fields are generally small. It's also not that they're eating the ears of corn, but they eat the top of the stalks off before the ears form, so ears never actually form on that entire stalk of corn. The damage can happen any time from the time it's planted to the time it's harvested and still have a drastic effect.

We had the best corn we've ever had on our meager farm, even though it was wet when planted and wet when harvested. We still lost 20% to damage. Sure, a small percentage was from coon and turkeys, but the vast majority is caused by deer.

[bowhunternw]

I think 0-2% is more realistic. The only time I see deer eat corn is when it is dry. You might see alot of ears ate on the edge, right were deer enter the field from bedding. Get inside the field and you won't see much of anything ate. Corn goes from knee high to tassling usually in a couple of weeks. Have never seen deer eat the top off a corn stalk. Now if you had corn sitting all winter in a wintering area with high numbers then maybe. But this is only what I have seen.

[creepworm]

I think 0-2% is more realistic. The only time I see deer eat corn is when it is dry. You might see alot of ears ate on the edge, right were deer enter the field from bedding. Get inside the field and you won't see much of anything ate. Corn goes from knee high to tassling usually in a couple of weeks. Have never seen deer eat the top off a corn stalk. Now if you had corn sitting all winter in a wintering area with high numbers then maybe. But this is only what I have seen.

When corn is in the V4-V5 stage, roughly 6 inches tall, the growing point of the corn plant moves from below the soil, to the whorl of the plant (very top). If you have ever walked through a corn field at this time near a woods or where deer are prevalent, you do not have to look hard at all to find corn plants with the tops of the plants eaten off. Once the growing point is gone from the plant, that plant is dead. Therefore, it is not unreasonable to have a 20% loss of a smaller field with high deer numbers. I have seen a bastard of a calf that hated being in the fences make a mess of 40 acres by himself overnight, so a herd of deer could easily do the same over the course of a year.

[mntatonka]

I think 0-2% is more realistic. The only time I see deer eat corn is when it is dry. You might see alot of ears ate on the edge, right were deer enter the field from bedding. Get inside the field and you won't see much of anything ate. Corn goes from knee high to tassling usually in a couple of weeks. Have never seen deer eat the top off a corn stalk. Now if you had corn sitting all winter in a wintering area with high numbers then maybe. But this is only what I have seen.

Really? you only see them eat it dry? I suggest you get out a little more before deer season. They eat WAY more of the actual kernels when it hits the sweet stage. Not to mention eating stalks shortly after they come out of the ground. As well as eating the tops of the stalks off.

I don't have the picture on my phone, but one of my neighbor's fields had at least half, if not more of the stalks eaten right down to where the ears would be. Granted, the field was only a few acres, but it was also as far away from the woods as is possible in the area.

[Jameson]

statistically irrelevant then? Maybe with those small fields the farmer should consider just using them for hay.

[mntatonka]

statistically irrelevant then? Maybe with those small fields the farmer should consider just using them for hay.

and then what would they feed their cattle? They don't exactly grow well on hay alone

[SmellEsox]

Really? you only see them eat it dry? I suggest you get out a little more before deer season. They eat WAY more of the actual kernels when it hits the sweet stage. Not to mention eating stalks shortly after they come out of the ground. As well as eating the tops of the stalks off.

I don't have the picture on my phone, but one of my neighbor's fields had at least half, if not more of the stalks eaten right down to where the ears would be. Granted, the field was only a few acres, but it was also as far away from the woods as is possible in the area.

I'm ignorant, so bear with me. How do you know it is deer eating the tops? Are there other animals that would eat the tops? Rabbits? Woodchucks? Some other rodent? Pocket gophers? Could the small field be fenced to keep deer out? I saw guys protecting soybean food plots out in the middle of the woods with electric fence and it worked. Is that cost prohibitive? Just my curiosity. Don't get mad.