Got caught hunting without a licence. Please read and give your input

[ac777]

I can see them having the right to write you a ticket, but really, should they be able to take your gun from you? It's not like you shot something illegally with it? It wasnt involved in Crime. Sounds like the DNR just doing what they do, and trying to make some money.

[BobT]

I don’t know the rules in WI but in MN “I’m going to party hunt and find someone to tag it” would be the wrong answer when asked you’d do if you shoot a deer. In MN to use another person’s tag you must be party hunting with that person at the time of the kill. It is illegal to tag a deer using a tag from someone that is not actually in the field with you in your party at the time of the kill.

I think the best thing you could do at the time is truthfully explain why you were hunting illegally and hope he understands and lets you go with a warning. If not, accept responsibility and move on. Trying to come up with other “believable” lies or excuses only gets you further into hot water. Telling him, “I was going to party hunt and use someone else’s tag.” only incriminated yourself further. Where was your father? I thought the reason you were so intent on hunting the opener was because of the opportunity of a lifetime to hunt with your father. If you were in fact hunting with your father then you were in a hunting party and it would have been better to just say you would have tagged it with his tag. I’m assuming that party hunting is legal in WI.

My friend and I experienced a similar situation one time. We were hunting the opener of the MN September Canada goose season one time and were approached by two officers. One was a veteran and the other was a new trainee so you can imagine that the veteran was less likely to be lenient.

To hunt the early goose season in MN requires a small game license, special early goose season license, MN waterfowl stamp, and a federal waterfowl stamp. When he got his licenses the night before he told the agent that he wanted everything he needed to hunt the opener the next day. When he got home, he noticed there was no federal waterfowl stamp. Without reading the regulations, he just assumed that it wasn’t required that year. Unknown to him, license agents are required to purchase the federal stamps up front from the US government and they can’t get a refund if they don’t sell all of them. For this reason, some agents choose not to carry them, which was the case this time.

The officers checked me first and I was good to go. When they checked my buddy they discovered that he did not have the federal stamp. The trainee asked him to follow her back to their truck as she would have to issue a citation. He explained the situation but told them he understood they had to do their job. I engaged the veteran in conversation and in the process she told me that if she was alone she probably would let it go with a warning but with a trainee…. She did say that she asked her partner to try and find a lesser offense to charge him with because we had everything else in order and my buddy was forthright and willing to accept responsibility.

The officer cited him for failing to have his stamp in possession, which was an $85.00 fine instead of $150.00 for not buying it at all. They told my buddy that they would allow him to continue his hunt for the day but he had to obtain his stamp before the next day. He told them that he was going to get his stamp immediately anyway. They decided that because he will go immediately to get the stamp, they would tear up the ticket and let him go with a warning.

Honesty is still the best policy. It doesn’t work out as well every time but lying or stretching the truth rarely works out well, especially if you get caught in a lie, and often results in causing more harm than good.

[SpitnArgueDuckClub*]

Ok before you read the post and jump to conclussions please read and just help me with your input on what I should do. So here is what happened:

The day before opening fire arm deer hunting I went in to Wal-Mart to purchase a license at about 9 p.m. (I am a huge procrastinator). I have done this every year and have had no problems purchasing a license the 10 years I have bought one before. When they ran my license there was an error that popped up that the worker could not work passed. He then called the DNR number trying to correct the error, but the lady that worked for the DNR gave me a number and said I would have to call into the main office of the DNR and correct the problem before I would be able to purchase a license. The Wal-Mart employee and I eventually figured out that the reason that we were having problems was because they ha my name spelled incorrectly in the system (which I have never had a problem with before). When I called the number given to correct the problem I got a machine giving me their office hours and they would not be open till 8 a.m. monday (it was Friday night the night before opener). I was extremely frustrated that this had happened. This was going to be the first season I could hunt with my dad in my entire life and he was only going to be able to hunt opening weekend. Probably the wrong decision, but I went out hunting anyways, I had every intent to purchase a license, have never had a problem purchasing a license ill this year and I am very stubborn. About 10 a.m. opening day I got pulled over by a DNR officerand that was that. The DNR agent was very friendly and understood the situation, but had to do his job and write me a ticket. They also took my gun as well. That is the shortened version. I am fighting the ticket in court, hopefully at least getting my gun back. Has there been anyone out there that has got anything that can help me out here or anything? Should I just say guilty and I will get my gun back? anything anyone can give me will be great. Thanks for the time if you read this whole thing!

So you say in all of this "This was going to be the first season I could hunt with my dad in my entire life and he was only going to be able to hunt opening weekend. Probably the wrong decision, but I went out hunting anyways, I had every intent to purchase a license,"

Did you ever consider the option of just going with your dad and sitting with him WITHOUT a gun yourself? This option would have allowed you to really enjoy his company and share in his hunt.

[96trigger]

It was a mistake, you screwed up and it happens.

However, it truly was nobodies fault but your own. You should have went to deer camp, but not hunted and tried to get a license that morning. Missing one morning of hunting would have been minor compared to all the time you are going to wast with this issue now, but I know, hindsight is 20:20.

The thing that would concern me the most is the gun. You could try and plea with the judge that you would gladly pay the fine, but you want your gun back. A judge might see reason in this as there was a circumstance that prevented you from obtaining a license. However, if that doesn't work, you will have to go to wait for the gun auction and try and buy it back, have money ready. This might cost you a lot more in the long run.

[harvey lee]

Did you ever consider the option of just going with your dad and sitting with him WITHOUT a gun yourself? This option would have allowed you to really enjoy his company and share in his hunt.

I do not know what state you were hunting in but in Minnesota, I believe you have to have a license to be with another hunting.

My wife was going to walk along with me one day pheasant hunting and I called the CO and asked if she needed a license to walk along.

He said yes as she was assisting in the hunt. I do not know for sure in Minnesota if that would also pertain to deer hunting but I would check it out before doing that.

[bobbymalone]

I can see them having the right to write you a ticket, but really, should they be able to take your gun from you? It's not like you shot something illegally with it? It wasnt involved in Crime. Sounds like the DNR just doing what they do, and trying to make some money.

You mean besides the crime of hunting without a license? The seizure of guns and other equipment has went to court by various "not fair, not fair" whiners and it's played out. IMHO it's a good thing. If you are violating game laws - the potential losing your equipment is a great deterrent. Much greater than a $100 fine. I always get a kick out of folks that blame law enforcement for enforcing laws rather than law breakers. The DNR could "try to make some money" all they want but if people followed the galdarn laws then they wouldn't be able to get that money... just my two cents.

As far as the OP goes, I hope you get your gun back after a big pain in your hindquarters to learn ya something and hopefully posting that big pain in your hindquarters on the internet teaches others a lesson as well.

[bobbymalone]

A judge might see reason in this as there was a circumstance that prevented you from obtaining a license.

My guess is it wouldn't be the first time that the judge has heard, "I tried to get one but _________."

What do you think the judge would say if someone got a ticket for driving with no license on a Sunday and was told, "Well I tried to get one but the DMV was closed that day."

[varmithtr]

My suggestion would be to simply tell the judge the straight facts on what happened. Any evidence, such as proof of trying to buy a license can only help. Bottom line, you broke the law, and knew you were doing it. You took a chance, and seem to be man enough to face the consequenses. For what it's worth, I would truly hope as a hunter and fellow Minnesotan that you would receive your gun back. You may, however, be sitting next season out, or take a hit to the pocket book.

[mrklean]

Like others have said you knew what you were doing was wrong and admitted it, but you disregarded the law and will pay for it, you lucky you didn't shoot a deer or else you might have lost more then your gun. Also no one had mentioned you were going to buy the license the night before, you legally couldn't hunt Saturday because of the 24 hour wait (please correct me if im wrong on the wait period) so either way you were going to be breaking the law. The chance of you getting your gun back will be tough, if you dont get it back you can always try and buy it back in the DNR gun auction

[picksbigwagon]

just to clarify, from page 59 of the regulations on licensing:

All deer licenses (archery, firearms, muzzleloader) may be purchased

at any time before or during the season. However, a license purchased

on or after the day the respective season opens is not valid until the

second day after the day it is issued (for example, a license issued on

Saturday would not be valid until Monday). A “day” means midnight

to midnight. The “respective season” refers to the first season for which

and it goes on from there.........I feel you broke the law, knowingly broke the law, you have to suffer the consequences

[BobT]

Tom, I understand your point regarding the hindsight information and agree it isn’t helpful for this case but I don’t agree that it isn’t helpful at all. We learn from our mistakes and looking back at a situation can be very helpful in the future or perhaps someone else will learn something from it.

The way I understand the story, he knew he was in the wrong but chose to go ahead and violate the law anyway. When he got caught it sounds like he tried to be polite and own up but at the same time made a meager and unsuccessful attempt to talk his way out of the situation. In doing so it sounds likely that he might have made things worse for himself. Obviously we don’t know all the specifics but that’s how I understand the story as I read it.

Being honest and accepting responsibility isn’t a cure-all that will get you off the hook by any means but it sure beats getting caught attempting to weasel your way out of it or lying. As a prosecutor I’m sure you saw first-hand that being straightforward was more likely to return a more compassionate sentence than getting caught being deceitful and unremorseful. I have witnessed first-hand how being upfront can work out for the better before going to court.

To ac777

I love that train of thought that it’s all a big conspiracy and law enforcement is purely about making money and nothing else. The CO is hired to enforce the laws and that’s what he was doing. The guy hunted without a license then tells the CO that he is “going to party hunt.” To me that sounds like someone trying to talk his way out and I would expect a reply something like, “Someday I’m going to let you off with a warning too.” No matter how cordial and nice you are it is still the wrong thing to do and you are guilty. Own up, take responsibility, learn from the mistake, and don’t do it again.

[SpitnArgueDuckClub*]

Did you ever consider the option of just going with your dad and sitting with him WITHOUT a gun yourself? This option would have allowed you to really enjoy his company and share in his hunt.

I do not know what state you were hunting in but in Minnesota, I believe you have to have a license to be with another hunting.

My wife was going to walk along with me one day pheasant hunting and I called the CO and asked if she needed a license to walk along.

He said yes as she was assisting in the hunt. I do not know for sure in Minnesota if that would also pertain to deer hunting but I would check it out before doing that.

If the person tagging along was driving deer or pheasants to a shooter I agree with a license needed. Just sitting with your dad, son, daughter or friend and needing a hunting license is ridiculous. How many young kids have tagged along with their parents on a deer hunt that were not licensed? Tons and that is a good thing, If what you are saying is true that is truly sad.

[Goldy33]

The 48 Hour rule you are referring to would not have applied. The day of opener (in this instance it was the day before) if you buy a license that person would have to wait 48 hours to hunt. The night before is still legal to hunt the next day. Someone mentioned that I should have just not hunted that day and gotten a license later. It was a Saturday and the office was not open till Monday and then the 48 hour rule would apply meaning I wouldn't be legal to hunt until Thursday, the 48 hour rule applies midnight to midnight. I believe someone also said that i might have to sit out the next year. Luckily i did not shoot a deer. The monday the DNR office opened i called and got everything corrected. I was able to still buy a license, wait until thursday, and hunt the rest of the season. If i would have shot a deer it would have been another 500 bucks added on the ticket and hunting privelages suspended for 3 years. But I'm getting alot of great info everyone thanks for the help. It seems I just have to tell the same story I told here and cross my fingers what the judge decides. I do have proof that attempted to purchase a license. I wrote a letter to the DNR licensing office and they wrote back that their files show there was 10 attempts in their system I was trying to purchase a license as well my name was spelled incorrectly preventing me to do so. I have no problem pleading guilty with an explanation just trying to get the gun back. I guess another reason why I posted this was for this to be a lesson for people and share the consequences.

[pureinsanity]

Goldy, let me share a story similar to yours.

Spring turkey hunt, I entered the lottery, did not get drawn. However, there is an "open enrollment, or surplus of licenses that can be purchased over the counter or online. I was determined to get a license for my father and I as this is one of our annual hunts we do together. I took off work, went home, set up my laptop next to my desktop, logged into online licensing with each computer, and had everything ready to just hit submit and click a couple things so we could get our license fast as the surplus runs out fast. Needless to say I did everything fast at the time the sales started. We didn't get our license because of the similar situation. My license was hung up and kept coming up with an error. I couldn't figure it out, and by the time I did all the surplus licenses were gone.

After calling the online licensing place, they figured out that my name was misspelled in the system. They fixed the error but by than it was too late. I argued with them over the phone and all they could do was pass me on to manager to manager. Finally that next Monday I was called by the DNR. They said the likelihood of me actually getting a surplus license online was slim, but since there was an error they were going to honor it. I received a license in the mail.

I guess the moral of my story is, people make mistakes. Thus why your name was spelled wrong in the system. Obviously it wasn't an issue in previous years.

As for your situation, you should have went a long with your dad and sat buy him with NO gun. Although you were honest, and I do hope they make an exception and give you your gun back, but the fact of the matter is you broke the law. The fact that you were completely honest will probably be in your favor.

If you are going to fight it in court, best of luck to you, however, you did break the law. I suggest next time do not wait last min, which I understand where you are coming from as I just looked at the date and tomorrow is the deadline for my turkey hunt application. So I am just as guilty.

I hope you get your gun back, and I hope they do not revoke your privileges. Just don't make the same mistake you did again, or break any other law regarding DNR regulations. This might be your gimme, so do not mess it up again!

Best of luck, and I know how frustrating it can be to have your name an error in a system.

[lakevet]

Did you ever consider the option of just going with your dad and sitting with him WITHOUT a gun yourself? This option would have allowed you to really enjoy his company and share in his hunt.

I do not know what state you were hunting in but in Minnesota, I believe you have to have a license to be with another hunting.

My wife was going to walk along with me one day pheasant hunting and I called the CO and asked if she needed a license to walk along.

He said yes as she was assisting in the hunt. I do not know for sure in Minnesota if that would also pertain to deer hunting but I would check it out before doing that.

2010 Reg Handbook

p.11

"LICENSE REQUIREMENTS

A person may not TAKE, buy, sell, TRANSPORT, or possess wild animals without a license, except as provided in this handbook."

p.19

" 'TAKING" DEFINED

" Taking' means pursuing, shooting, killing, capturing, trapping, snaring, angling, spearing, or netting wild animals: or placing, setting, drawing, or using a net, trap, or other device to take wild animals or ASSISTING another person in taking wild animals."

Talking with a CO 2 years ago, this could be applied to kids tagging along deer hunting, helping make a drive, kid blowing on deer call, helping track/locate the deer dad shot, etc. However, it is an area where common sense is used, and no CO would ever issue a ticket for that to a kid. However anyone old enough to buy their own license could be cited for violation of the above.

As to party hunting being an excuse...

p.71

"PARTY HUNTING

A 'party' is defined as any group of two or more LICENSED hunters who are all afield: hunting together at the same time: and all using firearms(including muzzleloaders) or all using archery.

Saying you were party hunting could only add another violation to the list as you were in violation of the party hunting regs.

The suggestions to document the failure of the license system is a good idea, hopefully the judge has good memories of deer hunting with dad.

Hope you can get this resolved quickly and have a great 2011 hunt with your Dad.

lakevet

[NoWiser]

If the person tagging along was driving deer or pheasants to a shooter I agree with a license needed. Just sitting with your dad, son, daughter or friend and needing a hunting license is ridiculous. How many young kids have tagged along with their parents on a deer hunt that were not licensed? Tons and that is a good thing, If what you are saying is true that is truly sad.

Do not believe everything you read on the internet. I don't know a single game warden who, given the circumstances, would have given a ticket out for sitting with your dad while he is hunting. As long as, like you said, he wasn't purposely driving deer or otherwise blatantly assisting in the harvesting of a deer. There are a lot of people on this site "who heard" certain things are illegal. Better to call your local C.O. and find out for yourself. I did some grouse hunting a couple years ago and my sister tagged along to take some pictures and watch the dog work. I was checked by a C.O. and he never once mentioned anything about her needing a license. Just wished us luck and let us continue.

[Tom Buckles]

Do not believe everything you read on the internet. I don't know a single game warden who, given the circumstances, would have given a ticket out for sitting with your dad while he is hunting. As long as, like you said, he wasn't purposely driving deer or otherwise blatantly assisting in the harvesting of a deer. There are a lot of people on this site "who heard" certain things are illegal. Better to call your local C.O. and find out for yourself. I did some grouse hunting a couple years ago and my sister tagged along to take some pictures and watch the dog work. I was checked by a C.O. and he never once mentioned anything about her needing a license. Just wished us luck and let us continue.

Dont believe everything you read on the internet???? Correct me if Im wrong, but what you are refering to is an actual regulation.

[NoWiser]

Dont believe everything you read on the internet???? Correct me if Im wrong, but what you are refering to is an actual regulation.

I was not referring to the regulation that was posted. I was referring to a person's individual interpretation of the regulation in a previous post. I will stick by my "don't believe everything you read on the internet" comment, including my own posts. It seems to me that the legality of a nonhunter tagging along with a licensed hunter all depends on the interpretation of the word "assisting" by the local conservation officer, hence the recommendation to make a call and find out for yourself.

[mrklean]

That topic was beat to death earlier this year it is a law but its one of those in the gray area laws

[Tom7227]

Once again - a judge who is dealing with the tag for hunting without a license has NO AUTHORITY to deal with the issue of the confiscation of the gun. None. It has to be dealt with through the seizure process outlined on the form the officer gave the man. It is a civil case. If you don't file the appeal you are SOL.

If you file the appeal you may end up before the same judge and she may give the gun back, but maybe not. The judge very well could be swayed by honesty and the facts as presented by the original poster and yes, I think being honest is the best policy. Court personnel generally can smell B.S. a mile away and it seldom gets nothing more than the stink on the one that's trying to sell it.

[LightningBG]

I think you have a good chance of pleading the charges down to something lower, and possibly getting your gun back.

Get as much proof as possible pertaining to the attempt to get a license. Try to get a notarized statement from the Walmart employee (if you can figure out who it was and if they remember. Try to get documents from the DNR regarding the mix up with your name (if that's what happened). Then bring your evidence and story to the prosecutor. In my experience they will do quite a lot to keep a case from going in front of a judge. They have way to heavy of a case load to be pleading and/or trying every case that comes infront of them.

IMO - with a little work, you could probably get your case plead down to paying a fine for the violation plus a court fee, keep it off your record, and get your gun back. But may have to go on probation or lose hunting privileges for a year or something.

[candiru]

To be honest, I have a hard time working up sympathy. How many of you would be changing your tune had he shot(poached) a trophy buck? It could have gotten real expensive then. You need to plan ahead in life and take your lumps when you foul up. I am sure the CO's have heard it all.

[LightningBG]

Once again - a judge who is dealing with the tag for hunting without a license has NO AUTHORITY to deal with the issue of the confiscation of the gun. None. It has to be dealt with through the seizure process outlined on the form the officer gave the man. It is a civil case. If you don't file the appeal you are SOL.

I just don't know if I can believe that. Lets say the charges are dropped against the person. They are going to have to appeal separately to get the gun back? What if the accused is found not guilty? Shouldn't the seized property be returned immediately?

[TruthWalleyes]

Situation sucks... You had good intentions, but you'll know next time to sleep in instead and hunt when you legally can.

When i read your first post i could imagine how upset i'd be if i was put in your shoes...Though this year was the firt time i actually purchases a license a month in advance.

[Bear55]

Really what else can you do if the DNR isn't going to sell you a license?

Don't hunt?

Please re-read my post, you took this quote a little out of context, I actually stated I would not have hunted.

The question I asked was in reference to calling the CO the night before season when the DNR will not sell you a license.