Do you buy into this theory?

[10,000 Casts]

Cause of lack of weeds...

Muskie fisherman run their baits over the top of the weeds which in turn clips off the top and kills the weed which in turn cause there to be less and less weeds.

Sorry for the lack or terms, I am not a bioligist.

Do you buy or sell that statement???

[TomWehler]

I always figured it was just giving weeds a trim....and making for nasty time to toss topwaters.

Weeds grow like anything else unless ya rip roots I would guess.

Toping them off should not destroy whole plant.

Hmmmmmmmmmm.

WEEDS!

Keep on rocken.

Tommy

[Dano_the_jigasaurus]

doubt it, that is a lot of weeds to pull, but possible...... I would think increases in boat traffic (driving through the weeds), erosion, decreasing sunlight, and fertilizers would likely be more better culprits of decreased weed growth. The fertilizer specifically because of the algae blooms that decrease sunlight and if not completely photosynthetic organisms will take up nutrients from water.....

I am not a botanist or enviromental scientist but those would be my guess.

dan

[Meat-Run]

From what I know or heard especially on the leech lake cabbage beds, cabbage can be hurt by being pulled up or out from the lake bottom and doesn't grow back. Cutting or snagging the tops of cabbage I think doesn't hurt and will continue to grow. Just when a weed is up rooted it does more damage. No scientific proof but thats what I have heard.

I think the rusty crawfish does more damage to weeds than lures and boat motors.

that's my .02.

mr

[jonesen]

I think the sub surface vegitation is not hurt by lures, not unless the plant is pulled from the lake bottom and the roots are ripped out. I do think that vegitation above the water line like pencil weeds and bull rushes can get destroyed by fisherman.

I do believe shoreline developement and rusty crayfish do more damage to the vegitation in our lakes. Hopefully the DNR will adress this issue in the new shoreline rules they are working on.

I'm pretty sure right now you need a permit to transplant aquatic vegitation but you don't need a permit to remove it.

It would be nice to see the lakes damaged by rusties replenished with a plant that they (crayfish) won't eat but the fish will still thrive in.

[TMF89]

Highly doubt it, this's the first I've heard of it. I'd LOVE it to be true for frickin Milfoil though!

[sbro73]

It's just like trimming your hedges, it'll grow back, and you have to trim it again !!!

[wildsmallie]

My understanding is that for a cabbage plant to reproduce, the "topper" has to out of the water for a certain amount of time--I don't remember how long, maybe a day or two. If the top gets removed before this, no new plants.

I've heard from old timers on Leech that the cabbage around two points used to be so thick it was hard to get a boat through it.

I'm not sure if I'm right, but it always bugs me when I do rip up off the top of a cabbage plant

[Brian H]

Sounds like a PETA theory.

[b1gf1sh1]

Quote:

Sorry for the lack or terms, I am not a bioligist.

i'm not a biologist either. but...i've owned more than a few fish tanks in my life and some weeds can be almost chopped into a salad and still grow again. and some can be all dried up and crispy and root out. then theres ones that die if you move your arms or cleaning tools through them and snap a stalk.

so this would be tough unless narrowed. cabbage? i'd say nope. milfoil? yeah, right... nope. coon-tail, maybe, it's pretty fragile. pond weed species? nope. not sure but i'd say no it does not, overall, affect the plant life so much from muskie fishing. or any fishing. but, i'm not a biologist, or horticulurist or aquaculturist or who the heck ever does water plants. and i clean all dead plant life from the tanks regularly so the oxygen levels are never an issue. so, maybe.

[Nick Kuhn]

Decreasing water clarity would probably be the single greatest factor, followed by the presence of invasive species and such. Coontail is a rootless plant (very little to anchor it to the bottom) so you'd actually spread it by catching it. Milfoil is the same way. Cabbage never seems to be much of a problem as it doesn't seem to hook onto lures like coontail or milfoil. Plants of all species have proven to survive some pretty significant damage to them, so a lure taking off a few clusters of leaves now and then won't do much.

Think of it this way, ever caught a ton of weeds one weekend, then gone back to the same place the next and found dead weeds or found that you don't hook any with the same presentation?

[propster]

Milfoil - uuugggghhh. Hate the stuff. Speaking of portage Bay, I never saw it in its prime, but I saw it when it had some weeds. Last time there, 2007, couldn't hardly find a weed. I had heard rusty crayfish also.

[pauljpollock]

Rusty crawfish have decimated some beautiful weedbeds on the East end of Vermilion. There was a beautiful cabbage bed that ran from the North side of Pine Island, across from Canfield Portage Bay, straight to the East. In 2001 the weedbed was great...2002, scattered patches....2003, gone. Bystrom Bay used to have great cabbage/coontail as well, but the crawdads ruined that as well.

I haven't noticed any major effects of the crawdads on the West end...yet.

I make it a point to trap and kill as many as I can every year. Who knows, if all resort and property owners would do the same it might help...I doubt it though. There's just too many of them.

They're quite tasty when prepared as Crawfish Gumbo.

Paul.

[Esoxmn]

I have also heard its the rustys that did in the weed beds on portage. If you catch them there "good eatin".

[goblueM]

You're sort of right -

Muskie anglers will pound the bulrushes, and when those are uprooted they take quite a while to re-establish. I read an article about that some time ago.

Crayfish and props hurt the weedbeds more, but those rush beds are a different story

[jonesen]

Paul

Quote:

I haven't noticed any major effects of the crawdads on the West end...yet.

Not sure if you fish VanRipers but the weeds were all gone last Sept. when I fished it, that was a huge weed bed on the west end.

[pauljpollock]

Jonesen,

Honestly, I never fished Van Ruyper last season. I spent most of my time on the West end in Head O' Lakes, Wakemup, Norwegian, and Niles Bays. Interesting to hear though.

Paul.

[pauljpollock]

esoxmn,

They've been pretty much gone by the portage for a while. Again, about 7 or 8 years ago the cabbage ran all the way from the bay by the portage to the sand beaches on the East end of the bay... Bear Creek is another area that comes to mind.

Paul.

[delcecchi]

I have noticed variations in weed beds over the years on west end. They seem to vary considerably depending on the weather that year, especially the ones more exposed to open water. this would be on like Wakemup in particular.

[delcecchi]

And if Musky fishermen wrecked weedbeds there would be no weeds in front of our cabin on headolakes. I bet we averaged several boats at all times from dawn to midnight, with peaks of 8-10.

[jonesen]

I think your going to see a dramatic change in the weed beds on the west end in the next several year. Van Ripers is just the begining.

[RK]

Hiya -

This is actually kind of a tough question. Weed beds are tricky. Rock reefs generally stay put () but weed beds are variable from year to year. So in some cases when weeds aren't what they were in the past it can be nothing more than season to season variation.

But... stuff like Rusty Crayfish can really change weedgrowth - as in make it go away. Pelican Weedbed on Leech doesn't exist anymore, and the big weedbeds in Broadwater Bay on Woman are gone too. Lake of the Woods has been hugely affected by rusty crayfish. Leech is a little tricky to figure because along with the rustys the lake is just aging overall - it's an impoundment after all. The lake's really clearing up. You used to not be able to see North Bar unless the light was just right, and then you'd just see the shape of it (and used to be able to catch walleyes right on top of it). Now you can count the rocks - and the crayfish. So the lake seems to be getting less fertile. That will change weed growth patterns too.

Rushes are a whole different story though. If you break off a rush below the water line, it won't grow back. Once rushes are gone, it can take decades to regrow them. Out in front of my cabin my uncle cut a boat channel through the rushes in the late 1970s. It's just now beginning to close off. On several MN muskie lakes, the rushes have really taken a beating, and muskie anglers are responsible for a lot of it. Guys throw treble hook baits in them because they want to be sure they hook a fish, and go plowing through them with trolling motors or outboards. The rushes on the south side of Pelican I. on Leech are almost completely gone, and huge rush beds on Cass are a fraction of what they used to be. Their decline coincided directly with the fall rush bite on those lakes becoming well known. It's really a sad deal. It's something muskie anglers have to be really conscious of if they fish rushes. If you aren't using a spinnerbait or single hook bait with a weedguard - stay out of there...

Cheers,

Rob Kimm

[Tippman]

Interesting, I didn't know that about the bullrushes. I'll keep that in mind next time I'm around them.

[Nick Kuhn]

RK, there may be a difference between hardstem and softstem bullrushes. The ones in front of our boathouse are cut every year, probably a half dozen times during the year and they keep coming back. I believe they are softstem, with the hardstem in our lake limited to a very thick island of them (if you threw a muskie bait in there, it'd never hit the water). I'm sure if we uprooted them it'd be another story, but just trimming them down to the water doesn't kill them.

[guideman]

The tough tall reeds you see on the lake are pencil reeds.

They only grow on hard bottom areas like sand/gravel and they can grow in up to 5 or 6ft of water. They shouldn't be confused with the softer grass, that grows up in the shallows. They can also take root in softer bottom and they rarely grow more than just a few feet long.

"Ace"

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