Warranty repair denied

[Pherris]

I find myself in an odd position. I have a 2010 Opti Pro X/S that I brought in to have it winterized and asked the dealer to also check into an issue of a knocking sound that the motor was making. After about 2 weeks the dealer called and said my boat was ready for pick up. When I picked up my boat they said the knocking sound was a result of a bad lower unit and they replaced it and it was covered by my Merc warranty. So today I get a call from the shop that did the repair telling me the warranty claim was denied because the lower unit issue was a result of direct impact to the lower unit. The dealer said I should call my insurance company and file a claim or pay the $4200 or bring the boat back and they would put my old lower unit back in. I have never hit anything and even the dealer said there was no visible damage that would indicate hitting something but Mercury said they determined from internal examination that the issue was the result of impact so would not be covered. I called my insurance agent and he said it would be highly unlikely the insurance would pay for repairs that have been completed and were not approved and I should tell the dealer he should have never done any work on the motor without authorization from Merc and to tell the dealer to take it up with them. I am of the same opinion but wondered if anyone else has had an issue like this or how you would handle it at this point.

[leechlake]

I'm with Surface Tension. If it were me I'd do some sleuthing and fact finding to see what's really going on. If I found the dealer wasn't double dipping, that Mercury is accurate that this isn't under warranty, and that no other mumbo jumbo is going on I'd pay for the repair but work out discounted deal. I'd assume you won't get all questions answered and if I didn't that would trigger me to pay even less but I'd pay something.

If you get stonewalled then I'd agree and put my guard up and treat them like they are treating you. I'd assume this will be the case and as they make no progress getting payment from you they will dribble out as little information as they think they need to to wear you down.

[Down Deep]

I don't know how many of you people own a business, but I do, and can tell you that mistakes do happen. It is not unreasonable for a business to try and get paid for the work that they have done. It is also likely that the dealer will try to work something out with the customer. I'm sure the Service Manger caught hell from the management. While I personally would not like to hear that I owed over $4k for a repair, I would try to resolve the issue. Suppose that right up front the dealer said that the work would not be covered by warranty or insurance. Would you have scrapped the motor? Eventually, the the dealer is more than likely going to try to collect the money, so you may have a court date in your future. Try to look at this problem from both sides.

Contrary to what the agent told you, damage claims made after a repair has been made is very common. The dealer still has the lower unit which can be examined by an adjuster. You should at least make the insurance company do that. Keep in mind the insurance company has the responsibly to investigate all claims. There have to be damaged parts that can be examined. Over the years I've had several insurance claims and most of the adjusters come out look over the damage and recommend payment. Some of the claims have been post repair and they have been paid because I had documentation. I'm pretty sure the adjuster will be no boat expert and if the dealer can show impact damage the claim will be paid. Then there is the issue of the deductible which will have to be worked out. If the insurance company denies the claim, then I believe its up to the dealer to make their case to Mercury. You are in a good position to negotiate because you have the both your boat and the money. But, if were me, I wouldn't just let this issue fester out there. I'd go in and talk to the owner or General Manager. If you don't want to go to the dealer offer to meet on neutral ground. That way you show good faith in trying to resolve the issue which puts you in a good position should you end up in court.

You say you never hit anything, but it's possible that the lower unit may have hit a log or something and you didn't notice the impact. I've personally had dings on my props that and bent skegs that I had no idea how they got there.

[delcecchi]

Presumably the motor was repaired with a brand new Mercury lower unit.

I think if it had been me and I was told there was a problem with my lower unit and it would cost 4k for a new one, I would first ask if the old one could be fixed, and then I would investigate used or rebuilt ones or even those third party lower units before popping for the factory brand new part.

Does the MN Truth in Repairs law apply to outboard motors?

http://www.ag.state.mn.us/consumer/cars/mncarlaws/mncarlaws_3.asp

Here is the statute, starts at the link and goes on for several sections

Still not clear if it applies to outboards

https://www.revisor.mn.gov/statutes/?id=325F.56

[Pherris]

Ok here is where it is at. I did a little research and from what I can tell so far I should not be personally responsible for the bill in my opinion (Other than my deductable portion if it is a valid insurance claim). I am not trying to get a free lower unit. I paid for an extended warranty on my motor to mercury and I paid a premium to my insurance company. The reason I do this is so I am covered in the event of expensive repairs. While it is my opinion that there is some culpability on the dealers part I do not think they should be left holding the bag. If it is truly a warranty issue then mercury should pay. If there is evidence of the issue being a result of impact then the insurance should pay. (Apparently the term" impact hit" does not necessarily mean you hit anything and is used fairly frequently in denied claims by Mercury for lower unit issues. It seems is can be caused by things other than "hitting" something as I discovered searching the internet)

Had this been handled to the letter by the dealer to begin with there would be no issue. (i.e. waiting for approval from mercury before working on the boat or at least contacting me prior to work being done.) The dealer says they did not observe any visible damage to the lower unit and tore it apart to the level they felt they needed to determine if it would be covered. The dealer was of the opinion that there was sufficient grounds to justify a warranty claim so they went ahead with repairs with the assumption it would be covered.

My insurance agent told me to tell the dealer they needed to take it up with Mercury. So I contacted the dealer and told them what my agent said. Needless to say the dealer feels they have the necessary documentation to justify a legitimate insurance claim. So rather than try and referee the situation between my agent and the dealer I gave the dealer my insurance agents name and number and policy number. The dealer said they would contact the agent and follow up as needed. That's where things are as of now. I will post an update when I have one.

[Whoaru99]

Presumably the motor was repaired with a brand new Mercury lower unit.

I think if it had been me and I was told there was a problem with my lower unit and it would cost 4k for a new one, I would first ask if the old one could be fixed, and then I would investigate used or rebuilt ones or even those third party lower units before popping for the factory brand new part.

Does the MN Truth in Repairs law apply to outboard motors?

http://www.ag.state.mn.us/consumer/cars/mncarlaws/mncarlaws_3.asp

Here is the statute, starts at the link and goes on for several sections

Still not clear if it applies to outboards

https://www.revisor.mn.gov/statutes/?id=325F.56

Not quite sure what point it is you're trying to illustrate, but to me this reads like if you bring something in and say "fix it", without requesting an estimate, you're on the hook for what "fix it" costs.

The 10% over bit seems to apply only if you had an estimate in the first place.

[ozzie]

this is interesting that the dealer tore it down and didn't notice "impact damage" but now that the claim was denied by mercury they say we will show your insurance why this should be an impact claim...

If truly you hit something then insurance should pay minus the deductible but to me it sounds like Mercury is the big company hiding something.

Good Luck!

[Whoaru99]

this is interesting that the dealer tore it down and didn't notice "impact damage" but now that the claim was denied by mercury they say we will show your insurance why this should be an impact claim...

If truly you hit something then insurance should pay minus the deductible but to me it sounds like Mercury is the big company hiding something.

Good Luck!

There is nothing to hide. The parts should be available for inspection and show damage commensurate with the problem, or they don't.

[Eric Wettschreck]

I"ve put myself in the market for a new boat recently. After reading all of this I'm thinking aboot staying away from Mercury for a while.

[delcecchi]

Not quite sure what point it is you're trying to illustrate, but to me this reads like if you bring something in and say "fix it", without requesting an estimate, you're on the hook for what "fix it" costs.

The 10% over bit seems to apply only if you had an estimate in the first place.

I wasn't trying to illustrate any point. I was curious about what the law is in Minnesota and after looking it up I posted the links. I still don't know if you could take your outboard in for an oil change and end up owing 5000 bucks for a new powerhead. I don't think that can happen with a car, but not sure. The folks I have patronized in the automotive arena have been pretty good about calling or talking to me about service cost.

[Whoaru99]

I still don't know if you could take your outboard in for an oil change and end up owing 5000 bucks for a new powerhead.

Under that pretense, no, I don't think so either. But, I believe the OP did instruct the dealer to have a go at the lower unit.

[RebelSS]

Conjecture sure runs rampant.

[magicstix]

I would run it by the State Attorney and see what they have to say. They've helped me out in the past and the other thing it does is puts them on their radar.

Most businesses will carry insurance for mishaps. They don't want to get stuck with a bill either.

On the other side of the table how many people have been denied warranty coverage on something that is a obvious warranty claim or the dealer wants you to claim it on your insurance or claim it on your extended warranty. I not talking about the people think everything should be covered no matter how badly they misused the product. I talking a legitimate claim.

A business that stands behind the product they sell will have repeat customers.

I also have to keep in mind I've only seen one side of the story and as we all know there's always at least two.

I'd even see if there is any chatter on the BBB site.

Good luck and keep us updated.

[expl]

A good really good friend has worked in the marine repair business for a very long time.He has seen and dealt with every major manufacturer for service,warranty,new,used ect. you name it he has dealt with it.When I discuss with him what would be a good outboard to purchase his reply has been find a used 2stroke Yamaha.Just passing along what I was told and I know he isnt feeding me bull.s.

[Whoaru99]

Conjecture sure runs rampant.

[PurpleFloyd]

Actually, that's totally ethical and the right thing to do. If Mercury pays the warrant claim they essentially bought the old parts and can do with them as they please. If Mercury denies the warranty claim the parts still belong to the customer/dealer. Our policy requires the dealer to ask for the parts to be sent back on rejected claims. Maybe Mercury's policy is to automatically send them back.

Which, brings up a good point. If Mercury is denying the claim, then get the parts back, look at their reason for rejection and look at the parts. Request a meeting with the Mercury rep so he can personally explain the rejection and point out the evidence for it.

If it's truly a valid rejection then they should be able to stand behind that with tangible evidence and reason to support that decision. If they can't then they should pay the claim.

The dealer put themselves in a bad position by saying it is was warranty before the claim was approved. Only Mercury can say it's warranty, not a dealer.

If the part comes back with good, solid evidence that it is customer damage, then the dealer shouldn't get stuck either because they fixed the boat, they didn't damage it. Likewise, if the evidence doesn't support it and the dealer replaced the lower unit on improper diagnosis, then it should be on them.

Great post.

[PurpleFloyd]

My wife had a Ford Probe about 20 years ago or so that we brought to the Ford dealer for an oil change. They called and said there was an issue that needed to be fixed and it was under warranty so based on that we told them to fix it. We got a receipt that showed we had a zero balance on the repair just like the OP. Some time later we got a call and letter from the dealer saying that the repair actually was not covered and they wanted something in the neighborhood of $300. Since we were told it would be fixed free and had a receipt saying the repair was done free of charge, I didn't pay it. Had we known the repair was not covered it was something I could have and would have fixed myself with parts from an auto parts store that would have cost much less and my labor would have been free.

Likewise, that dealer fixed the lower unit but never even called the OP telling him the work needed to be done so there was no opportunity for the OP to decline the repair. Once the dealer gave him a receipt showing there was no money due, the customer was relieved of any obligation to pay. If there was ANY chance the claim was going to be potentially rejected by the manufacturer then the dealer should have waited for the OK from the manufacturer before they did the work or provided the receipt.

[Cheers]

BUT the dealer is willing to reinstall the lower unit, if that is the case then the owner is still free to fix it himself.

[Tom7227]

I think some sort of compromise should be tried.

The motor was broken. Now it is fixed.

I don't think the dealer should have to eat the whole bill because someone made a mistake. I don't remember even reading what the mistake was - why was the warranty claim denied.

The one thing that bothers me a bit is the suggestion by someone at the dealer suggesting that they would do something to make it look like a claim against the homeowners insurance carrier would succeed.

[Whoaru99]

Mercury rejected the claim citing the problem is a result of impact damage to the lower unit.

[Old Dewjabber]

Something just isn't right! We are hearing a 1/4 of the story. Dealer, Merc's, insurance and OP's story. Had it been me, happening the way OP said, I would of walked away.

Would of never even said anything about insurance and told them to sue me!

[Surface Tension]

Get that impact statement from Merc and bring that along with the $4200 bill into your insurance agent. Give the insurance company the full scoop.

[Pherris]

Couple things "check it out" does not = fix it. I have insurance that would be required to pay to it if it is a result of "impact damage" and had that been determined and APPROVED by the insurance company before work they would have to pay. The insurance agent is of the position that any dealer that is doing a repair to a lower unit to be covered by a warranty has a specific protocol to follow before going ahead with repairs and that this dealer did not do that and by doing so knowingly or unknowingly assumed the risk of warranty rejection. Now I am not an insurance agent so I can't say that "not following protocol" is a justifiable reason to reject a claim. Like I stated in an earlier post I am not trying to get a free lower unit. If the dealer / Merc can show it is indeed a result of impact then the insurance should pay. The lower unit was returned to Mercury.

I have taken out a lower unit before but I knew I hit something and it tore the entire bottom off the motor. Despite the obvious damage I was stii required to meet an adjuster at/with the dealer before any work could be done. They approved and the dealer put in the new lower unit and got paid. This is not the same dealer.

As mentioned I gave all my insurance info to the dealer and they are taking it up with my insurance company.

[Whoaru99]

Couple things "check it out" does not = fix it. I have insurance that would be required to pay to it if it is a result of "impact damage" and had that been determined and APPROVED by the insurance company before work they would have to pay. The insurance agent is of the position that any dealer that is doing a repair to a lower unit to be covered by a warranty has a specific protocol to follow before going ahead with repairs and that this dealer did not do that and by doing so knowingly or unknowingly assumed the risk of warranty rejection. Now I am not an insurance agent so I can't say that "not following protocol" is a justifiable reason to reject a claim. Like I stated in an earlier post I am not trying to get a free lower unit. If the dealer / Merc can show it is indeed a result of impact then the insurance should pay. The lower unit was returned to Mercury.

I have taken out a lower unit before but I knew I hit something and it tore the entire bottom off the motor. Despite the obvious damage I was stii required to meet an adjuster at/with the dealer before any work could be done. They approved and the dealer put in the new lower unit and got paid. This is not the same dealer.

As mentioned I gave all my insurance info to the dealer and they are taking it up with my insurance company.

I don't necessarily disagree with anything you've said. Stated earlier that the dealer was out of line to proceed on the assumption of warranty.

However, had that worked out, I guess we'd be hearing about how great the dealer did to git'er done; despite the same breach of protocol.

[learning]

This is very common thing to happen with insurance. You take it in for repair and an impact is found. Contact your agent and have them file a claim with the company. The dealership can not open a claim only you can. Let the sides figure it out and you have a new lower unit. Your taken care of and dealer is. Win Win

[CaptainMusky]

Pherris, What is "impact damage" if the damage wasnt the result of hitting something?

Do you have examples?