Bad Concrete Pour

[jmd1]

do you all have a register of contractors that you can get involved with this too?

[SpitnArgueDuckClub*]

Seems to me that an engineering inspection is a bit overkill for a residential concrete pour that is not part of a structure. I guess if the people who furnished the concrete want to look at it I'd let them do it. My view is no matter what the engineer determines is wrong your contractor is still responsible for replacing the flawed work. Getting it in writing is a good idea, but you are right to be concerned about the time between now and the repair.

+2, why the wait until spring? Your job should go straight to the front of the work load and redone ASAP. Waiting until spring just sounds like one more delay; one lengthy delay.......................

[Michael L]

+2, why the wait until spring? Your job should go straight to the front of the work load and redone ASAP. Waiting until spring just sounds like one more delay; one lengthy delay.......................

Ish, it's tuff to see when someone is getting the game played on them. Wait, wait, wait then 'promise' work will be done in another 6 months. Bring in a product rep, he just says not us. Makes the HO think they are trying a little.

Who cares about in writing, the pour is junk, either way they'd have to replace it. Stretch it out, maybe they'll go away.

[jjohnson5150]

Saturday came & went. No written action plan and receipt from concrete company. I sent a follow up recapping the meeting and again requesting what we were told we would get by Saturday.

I'm not playing anymore games with this clown. If we don't have the plan in writing within the next few days, it's time to take this to the next level. I feel more confident than ever that we would win in court.

Funny game

I'll keep this going just in case anyone can benefit from all of the good info on this thread. Hopefully it will prevent this same thing from happening to anyone else.

[jjohnson5150]

do you all have a register of contractors that you can get involved with this too?

I'm in the process. Any suggestions? If so, please PM me.

[jmd1]

PM sent good luck

[bak2MN]

What ever happened??

[WIMN]

Yeah I am curious about the follow-up too!

[jjohnson5150]

The clown eventually sent an action plan after visiting and finally recognizing the issues. They are supposed to come out in the Spring to replace the steps / walkway. We now have a large crack forming on the main driveway that will need to be replaced. It's a big fork shaped crack that runs corner to corner on the panel next to the steps and garage. The attempted patches of the "controlled" joint that were cracking up to the surface of the driveway have let loose too. It's something I know I'll need to deal with in the coming months. I'm still prepared to take this to the next level if needed. I wish I could out the company on here.

[jjohnson5150]

More than likely the concrete supplier will pick up the tab on the concrete one not the labor.

Any idea what % of a job is concrete costs? I'm thinking through our approach to this come Spring and would like to know roughly what he may have paid for the concrete.

[PurpleFloyd]

Did the contractor provide a warranty against cracking?

[jjohnson5150]

No, not directly. However, there were issues with the controlled joints right from the start. The concrete engineer told him he didn't go deep enough and he was kind enough to pass that along to me (although not in writing). Part of what he did when he made an appearance last fall was saw cut the controlled joints in the driveway deeper to "relieve pressure". Common sense tells me it would already be too late considering the pour was done in June. I didn't see the fork shaped crack in the driveway panel until the first hard cold spell this winter, but I have a hunch it had already started before I noticed it.

[jjohnson5150]

Update, Clown failed to honor agreement to tear out and replace. Fortunately, we have a written agreement to do it. Unfortunately, we are in the process of having 3rd parties involved to resolve. I'm not sure it will do any good, but I figured it was worth a shot before court. My requests for follow up have mostly gone unanswered since Apr. After initiating 3rd party assistance they came up with a lopsided engineer report from the concrete company that didn't address all the issues. It only addressed the cracking on the walkway and stated it was "within industry standards" and suggested using a product called matchcrete to fill in cracks. There was no mention that they failed to cut controlled joints after the pour to prevent, the pop outs, etc. They only cut the joints in Sept after we started pushing the issues hard. Common sense tells me that was way too late since the cracks had already developed. I had the engineer out last week so I could show him the other areas and explain the time in between pour and joint cuts. He agreed to modify his report. The other thing we noticed while reviewing our receipts was the time from load to unload for the concrete. It was over 2 hours. I believe that is too long. Can anyone confirm? For some reason, they got the concrete sent from the far South burbs to where we are in the very far West burbs. 

[jjohnson5150]

One more thing. Their warranty covers cracking for one year. It's posted clear as day on their page. I took a screen shot of it for my documentation in case their page is changed.

[leech~~]

jjohnson, do you know what the stain or coating is that he used on your steps, was it slippery in the winter? I repaired my front and back steps and would like to seal them with a good paint or stain.

[Rip_Some_Lip]

I work as an construction inspector for a county and according to MnDot's specs. the concrete must be poured within 90 minutes of batching or we can reject it. It starts hydrating and setting up by that time. Also the control joints should be at least 1/4 of the thickness of the slab. A lot of contractors do not have a deep enough groover to do this. I have also heard bad reviews of the coloring agent they use, it affects the hydration and finishing qualities of concrete.

Edited July 3, 2015 by Rip_Some_Lip

[jjohnson5150]

jjohnson, do you know what the stain or coating is that he used on your steps, was it slippery in the winter? I repaired my front and back steps and would like to seal them with a good paint or stain.

They used a combination of sealer with shark grip apparently. It was still slippery and is now flaking. I'd suggest going to concrete supplier or paint store with pix and let them suggest.

I work as an construction inspector for a county and according to MnDot's specs. the concrete must be poured within 90 minutes of batching or we can reject it. It starts hydrating and setting up by that time. Also the control joints should be at least 1/4 of the thickness of the slab. A lot of contractors do not have a deep enough groover to do this. I have also heard bad reviews of the coloring agent they use, it affects the hydration and finishing qualities of concrete.

Thanks. Do you know of anywhere that has the time guidelines posted?

[Rip_Some_Lip]

Thanks. Do you know of anywhere that has the time guidelines posted?

This is out of the ACI (American Concrete Institute) Guidelines. Just google "ACI concrete placement" and you should find a lot of info.

 

Concrete shall be mixed only in such quantities as are required for

immediate use. The maximum allowable time between charging

of the material in the mixing drum and final placing for mean

ambient temperatures below 90°F shall be ninety (90) minutes or

300 drum revolutions, which ever comes first. Concrete to be

delivered when the mean ambient temperature exceeds 90°F

shall be mixed and delivered in accordance with the requirements

of ACI 305 "Recommended Practice for Hot-Weather Concreting".

Concrete not placed within these time limits, or if an initial set has

developed, shall not be used. Tempering concrete by adding

water or by other means will not be permitted.

[jjohnson5150]

I won

[delcecchi]

I won

What's that mean? They are redoing it?  You don't have to pay? 

[jjohnson5150]

It means I took him to court and won the judgement. He pays us back for amount it will take to tear out and replace. We still need to collect, but the ball is back in our court. It feels good after all the time & energy I had to put into this. I learned through this process that the BBB & state attorney general are pretty much a waste of time. If I was to do this over, I'd log the issue with BBB then start the court process at the same time. BBB only dragged this out.

[delcecchi]

Always good to see a happy ending.   I hope you can collect. 

[RebelSS]

Yay!  Good for you. Go get 'em.  I did the same with an insulation company. Smoked 'em in court. Judge actually awarded me above what I was seeking. They paid. 

[Tom7227]

The contractor has to have a performance bond to maintain a license.  If they won't pay you can make a claim against that bond.  It may not be enough to cover the judgement but it's a good start.  Collecting a judgement is complex and time consuming unless you now exactly where there are assets.  Often a bank account has a small amount of money in it and getting the sheriff to execute against it costs more than you collect.

 

[SkunkedAgain]

Tom - good point about the performance bond, which is why it's important to have the contractor verify it before commencement of the work.

I'll toss in a semi-related bit of BBB info though. I've had only one experience with them and it was in regards to getting Ford to buy back a lemon truck. The attorney general didn't do anything but it was a part of the process, but the guy from the BBB did a lot of the arm-twisting for me with Ford. I wrote a few letters but the BBB agent got me a new truck when all Ford offered was an extended warranty. That was getting near 10 years ago but I thought I'd toss it out in case people read the OP's post and think it's not worth a try. In my experience, utilize all avenues available to you.