poor mathews

[fishin58]

I just read an article from field and stream about the new bows and how they test out. 1 of the testers has an archery shop, long story short, Mathews dropped Hintonarchery from their supply chain. I wont be looking at a Mathews anytime soon.

http://www.fieldandstream.com/articles/hunting/2013/08/fs-crowns-best-flagship-compound-bow-2013

[vister]

That's terrific! Sorry guys, good bow, yes, over marketed, yes. I never even shot one when I bought my rig a few years ago. And I shot quite a few

[gardn184]

They all make good bows, I shot all of them and went with a Creed, just something about 1 cam that works better for me. To each their own

[Bear55]

Good read, I'm due for an upgrade soon.

Pretty shady of Mathews, their bows shoot nice but something about the company has rubbed me the wrong way for a while, I guess this confirms it.

[deerminator]

I'd be looking at Matthews despite this. I shoot a Diamond and have never owned a Matthews. In fact, never shot one. Let's get that straight first.

The archery shop provided the following comment in the F&S review:

"We probably shot the Creed more than any bow, disbelieving how poorly it stacked up against even the newcomers. “If you’re going to shoot a bow this slow, buy the Elite,” Hinton finally said."

So, the shop advocated the reader buy another bow than Matthews? If you were Matthews, would you want to continue to do business with them? How successful would you be in selling bows if this particular shop was telling archers to buy another brand instead. Fact is, Matthews is a private business and they have the right to distribute their bows with whomever they want.

If anything, the archery shop screwed up by going a little too far in their commentary. They could have just said the bow was surprisingly slow, not go on about how disappointed they were with it and that you should look into other brands.

As someone who works in the marketing and PR world, I can completely understand why Matthews did what they did. It's a smart business decision. And ultimately, keep in mind this is one independent review as the shop notes in the F&S article. Another magazine might say the same bow is the best thing since sliced bread.

Kudos to Matthews IMHO. And my definition of "shady" is what certain members of the hunting community decided to do to Jim Zumbo when he made the mistake of expressing his opinion on black AR and AK rifles. This pales in comparison I feel. It's a simple business decision. If they don't like the bow, then why are they complaining about not being able to sell it?

[fishin58]

good points deerminator, but he was just being honest. He might have went a little far but I can only view this as negative publicity for mathews. I hope his shop got a contract from another company!!

[harvey lee]

I have shot Mathews bows all of my life and will continue to do so no matter what another states.

Many good bows on the marked today, and Mathews is the bow for me.

I could care less what someone else has to say about thier bows. I more than likely would have done the same thing mathews did.

[96trigger]

I have to agree with deeminator, telling a customer to go with a different bow is one thing, publishing it in a national magazine doing a bow test is a completely different story.

I have not been impressed with the new mathews lately, I still have my old Switchback XT and it works great and looks like new, I don't see myself upgrading until they come up with something I really like better.

It will really be interesting to see next years bow report if Hinton is still doing the testing and what they say about mathews.

[PurpleFloyd]

I'd be looking at Matthews despite this. I shoot a Diamond and have never owned a Matthews. In fact, never shot one. Let's get that straight first.

The archery shop provided the following comment in the F&S review:

"We probably shot the Creed more than any bow, disbelieving how poorly it stacked up against even the newcomers. “If you’re going to shoot a bow this slow, buy the Elite,” Hinton finally said."

So, the shop advocated the reader buy another bow than Matthews? If you were Matthews, would you want to continue to do business with them? How successful would you be in selling bows if this particular shop was telling archers to buy another brand instead. Fact is, Matthews is a private business and they have the right to distribute their bows with whomever they want.

If anything, the archery shop screwed up by going a little too far in their commentary. They could have just said the bow was surprisingly slow, not go on about how disappointed they were with it and that you should look into other brands.

As someone who works in the marketing and PR world, I can completely understand why Matthews did what they did. It's a smart business decision. And ultimately, keep in mind this is one independent review as the shop notes in the F&S article. Another magazine might say the same bow is the best thing since sliced bread.

Kudos to Matthews IMHO. And my definition of "shady" is what certain members of the hunting community decided to do to Jim Zumbo when he made the mistake of expressing his opinion on black AR and AK rifles. This pales in comparison I feel. It's a simple business decision. If they don't like the bow, then why are they complaining about not being able to sell it?

In Marketing you either have a great product that is easy to sell or you need to come up with creative ways to compel the consumer to purchase your product instead of one from a potentially superior competitor.

The guy in R and D and who is making the final calls on what bows are made and sold is the one who should be looking at this and figuring out why his company is producing a bow that doesn't stack up well against the competition.

By eliminating that guy as a dealer they also gave one of the other companies the opportunity to step in and replace their market share in that area. Yeah, they can find and back a different dealer and if they find one that is more reputable and such it may work out for them but the bad press is never good for business.

[deerminator]

I know he was being honest, but as 96 pointed out, it's a little different telling a customer one on one versus telling 2 million plus readers, which is where F&S is at right now in circulation according to my most recent copy Writers Market. It's not a matter of being dishonest. It's a matter of choosing you words correctly. He could have said "It was much slower than I thought it would be," then point out some positive aspect of the bow, and then give his vote to the other bow as being faster. And Matthews likely wouldn't have faulted him for that.

In terms of bad press, you're right, this isn't positive press but its hardly catastrophic. It will get discussed on a few Internet chat rooms for a couple of days and BAM, everything goes back to normal. I'm sure Matthews assessed the risks involved when they made this decision. And they moved correctly in my opinion. So what if a competitor moves in to fill the space. This shop wasn't likely planning to sell too many Matthews bows anyway given the comments made in F&S. And Matthews can ship their bows to someone who will sell them.

Finally, in terms of this bow not stacking up, this is one subjective magazine review. Is speed the all deciding factor in an effective bow? Does a slight advantage in fps matter? Are there other factors as well that go into making a great bow? These are all questions to consider before turning to one review to say that one bow doesn't stack up to the rest.

[nofishfisherman]

Matthews made an understandable decision in my opinion. The company I work for designs and manufactures products that we sell through distributors and retail outlets. If a company wants to sell our product they have to contact us and we do quite a bite of background work to see if they are a good fit to sell our product. If we find one of our customers is stocking our product but bad mouthing it in the media that customer will not remain a customer of ours for very long. We try to build relationships with our customers that sell our products. We are here to support them as much as we can and we do alot of work on their behalf and we take on alot of marketing and advertising costs on their behalf that we don't have to do. We in turn expect them to promote our product. If they recommend something different that will work better for an individual customer that is fine. We obviously expect them to service their customer and help them find the best product for their individual needs whether its ours or someone elses. But if they were to talk badly about our product in the media, industry conventions, or other promminent areas then there is a problem.

[Bear55]

good points deerminator, but he was just being honest. He might have went a little far but I can only view this as negative publicity for mathews. I hope his shop got a contract from another company!!

This is what I was thinking as well, guys is just telling like he see's it. He sells many different lines of bows there so I think he needs to be honest with his clients. Everyone should make up their own mind anyway and buy the bow that fits them best.

As they say no press is bad press and all these guys will be fine. Mathews has some hardcore fans that will rally around the brand and other hunters who want to look around a bit probably will buy a different brand anyway. I think Mathews just looks a little defensive and maybe a bit childish here but they still make a great product. For many years Mathews was at the top of the hill and everyone else was playing catch up. Now the playing field has leveled off in a big way.

Just an FYI for anyone interested, I shot the Bowtech, Mathews, Elite, and Bear bows about a month back. All great shooters, I've been a Bowtech shooter for a long time but I came away very impressed with the Elite Hunter. Now I just have to find a deal on one before next season.

[bowhunternw]

Guess their dealers can't give an honest opinion! Good grief. What a bunch of babies. I can't say that I would never buy one of their bows if they made one that I liked. I honestly don't have the feel for their products for some reason. I will say that advertisent has a little bit of a reverse effect on me too. Let me decide how great it is, not you telling me how great it is.

[nofishfisherman]

Guess their dealers can't give an honest opinion! Good grief.

If your dealer honestly thinks your product isn't very good why would you want them to be a dealer for you? Everyone is entitled to an opinion but its a waste of time on everyones part for a dealer to carry a product that they don't believe in. Either the dealer should stop dealing the product or the manufacturer should stop supplying the product.

In the case of my company we have to turn down people wanting to carry our product because we don't want to have too many dealers competeing against each other in a specific area. If we have a customer who appears to not be invested in our product we'll pull the product from them and move on to the next guy who is more interested in selling it. It doesn't matter if the first guys honest opinion is that our product is deficient in some way. He's allowed to have that opinion but the bottom line is that we are in the business of selling stuff. We aren't going to waste time with someone who doesn't like the product and who won't promote it.

[NoWiser]

Just an FYI for anyone interested, I shot the Bowtech, Mathews, Elite, and Bear bows about a month back. All great shooters, I've been a Bowtech shooter for a long time but I came away very impressed with the Elite Hunter. Now I just have to find a deal on one before next season.

I think you are going to like that bow, Bear. I went bowshopping last year and honestly planned on getting a Mathews. I think it had to do with all of the advertising pounded into my head. I shot a little of everything, but could not put down the Elite Answer. Hoyt was probably my second choice, and much to my surprise, the Mathews were my least favorite. I kept my eye open and found a real good deal on a used Answer. Love it!! Lots of great bow choices out there now, so it definitely pays to shoot them all!

Regarding what Mathews did, I don't necessarily blame them. I would probably have been a little ticked, too. A more productive approach would probably have been to contact the dealer and find out why he ranked their bow so low, and ask him for suggestions on how to improve it. Either way in the scheme of things, not a real big deal. That's how business works.

[Black Bear]

I currently shoot a Z7 Xtreme and before that a Switchback XT and before that a Q2 or SQ2. I have known for quite sometime how the Mathews business model works (regional price fixing) and a very strong appraoch to independent dealers. I have been told by more than once that some archery shops refused to sell their product becuase of the strong arming. The archery business in general is not like many others. This years Creed and Chill "must haves" will be loooonngg forgotten on Decemeber 1st when something new comes out. (same with other brands) The point I'm trying to make is that I stopped trusting this undustry (and Mathews in particular) 10 years ago. I wait to buy my bows when they are proven and 2-3 years old and at a discount. Glad I did cause last years Helium--just glad I do not own it. I still shoot a Mathews but I'm not sure for how much longer. I have not been happy with the product offerings the past couple of years and I will not let them intimidate me.

[wannafish2]

I just want to say Congrats to Bowtech, my favorite.

But I agree sometimes you can say too much. They should've just made the evaluation and let each of us decide for ourselves.

[archerystud]

I will say that my last 3 bows have been Mathews. I tried to get away from them in my last bow but the Creed just felt right to me. To each their own.

So the problem I have here is with the archery shop. Mathews gives them exclusivity to sell their bows but they are willing to put their name on this test. I give them kudos for being honest but you should think ahead about what kind of trouble you might get into.

Let me put it another way. I'm a software developer and lets say I was at a trade show and told a potential customer to go with one of my competitor's product. I truly wouldn't expect to keep my job too long.

[Rippinlip]

Cudo's to Mathews, its just business.

Like you have all have said on here, if we didn't adhere to what standards our work/vendors/customers desired us to do, how long would we be employed or hired to supply them with goods?

I shoot a Mathews (Helim) and not just the right bow for me, but the company standing behind their products if something ever goes bad is another plus for me.

[leechlake]

I'm trying to think like Mathews did. Most news reports leave out a lot of information. Besides the dealer hacking on Mathews maybe:

1. The shops sales were underperforming compared to similar shops. That could because they truly thought other bows were better.

2. Besides axing the dealer the people at Mathews internally did a lot of soul searching and found out why their bow was rated so low. Heck maybe Mathews fired 4 people inter company.

3. Maybe Mathews already new these things and their focus is on effectively maketing their products, knowing other lesser known brands are better but those companies haven't done as good a job making people "think" their product is the best.

Yes, the above is more than one assumption but I'm sure Mathews didn't just get irritated over a supplier and fire them without doing other things in addressing the poor review.

[DTro]

Yesterday, within days of the September Field and Stream issue hitting the newsstands, I received this letter from Patrick Burke, Director of Sales for Mathews, and Jon Dumars, Director of Sales for Mission:

“Dear Danny,

We regret to inform you that Mathews, Inc. and Mission Archery will no longer be able to supply your company with product. We have determined that other avenues of distribution are more consistent with the sales and marketing objectives of Mathews.”

It certainly appears that Matthews/Mission terminated my dealership because I participated in an independent test. So, going forward, Hinton Archery will no longer sell Mathews or Mission products.

Although we’ve enjoyed a good relationship with Mathews in the past, we will not be intimidated by them or any other manufacturer. We’re a small-town shop, and our first priority is to our customers. We won’t sacrifice our principles or attempt to “throw” the results of an independent gear review because of brand loyalty or a company’s marketing objectives. There is too much self-serving, agenda-driven promotion in this business already. We believe that the sportsmen deserve to hear the results of honest, independent tests like the one we performed. They just deserve better. Our staff personally shoots and evaluates every bow we sell, and the recommendations we provide to our customers are truthful.

Buying a bow is a personal decision, and if you shoot a Mathews, we will continue to service it. But future warranty work will have to be done by an authorized Mathews dealer. I apologize for the inconvenience, but I assume our customers will understand.

--------

That's one less brand from which I will need to choose.

Amen

[harvey lee]

Mathews will survive just fine without that dealer.

Too bad we do not know the whole story.

Mathews did not build thier business from a garage to a multi million dollar business building poor equipment or bad CS.

Just like any other bow brand, a Mathew's is not for everyone.

I would also ask that if they thought the bow was such a poor performer, then why care if they dropped you as a dealers since Mathews product is so inferior. I am sure there is alot more to this story and Mathew's did not open a mess and smear Hinton and Hinton may not have wanted to tell the complete truth.

We will never know and it really makes zero difference to me as I buy a bow that fits me well and that has been a Mathews the last 2.

[Bear55]

Let me put it another way. I'm a software developer and lets say I was at a trade show and told a potential customer to go with one of my competitor's product. I truly wouldn't expect to keep my job too long.

Interesting angle but what if like a bow shop owner you sold 5 or 6 different lines of software. Should you be honest or have to worry about one of your products being pulled if you don't make everyone happy?

[skee0025]

I would also ask that if they thought the bow was such a poor performer, then why care if they dropped you as a dealers since Mathews product is so inferior.

Would you as a dealer drop an entire Brand because 1 segment of its product line is inferior to the others? Poor form on Mathews part.

[PurpleFloyd]

After reading the article and looking into the dealer in question I am actually siding more with Mathews than the dealer.

First- the dealer actually hosted some of the testing or all of it and he was the person responsible for setting up all of the bows. I can see Matthews taking the position that we didn't properly set up the bow that he was a dealer for as one of their reasons. Not saying the dealer did anything wrong in the setup but they may feel that way.

Secondly- as a dealer I feel his evaluation should have not mentioned that a bow he sold should be passed on in favor of another brand. If he wanted to call out the quality that is one thing but you don't tell people to buy another brand instead. That comment alone put down in black and white forced Mathews hand in the matter.

Lastly- and this is not quite as important- but that archery shop has only been open since 2007. Maybe the guy had other shops open for years under different names but couldn't the magazine find a place with a more established history of bow sales and service than 5 years? I am sure the dealer had knowledge but I am guessing Mathews has dealers with decades of experience and they probably felt he hadn't been with the company long enough to build a track record strong enough to overlook this.

Lastly, since a bow tech one and he also deals for them I am guessing that he more than likely was going to be selling the bow tech models to his customers in that category and no Maathews bows.

Still, I hope Mathews takes the results to heart and looks at what shortcomings their bows have and work to fix them so they aren't a problem on future models instead of blaming the poor showing on a dealer