Thermal or no thermal?

[Stick in Mud]

Hello all,

Thanks for all the input on my previous question regarding the weight of the big portables. My next question has to do with whether or not the full 900 denier thermal houses are worth the extra weight and money.

My old house was just about see-through for the last five years or so, and with the heater going, it was still plenty warm. Plus, I am almost never cold, even when fishing outside in the winter, so I'm leaning more towards the thermal cap. Yes, the thermal ones are nice, and they sure do seem a lot warmer, but with a Buddy heater going, I don't see myself getting cold without it, either.

Any thoughts?

Carmike

[Brad B]

the one advantage of full thermal is you end up using less propane to heat the house over the season. I got a Canvas Craft Northlander suit case style house that is the full thermal model. Once the chill is out of the air I can keep the house warm with just the pilot light. I personally wouldn't be without full thermal. this is why I am selling my non thermal sled type house and get the Clam Nanook Thermal this season and next season I plan to pick up the full thermal Clam X2. after that the only non thermal I will have is the Clam Kenai, which is only used for early ice.

[rundrave]

there are many more positives other than just staying warmer. The fabric doesnt make as much noise or flap around on windy days. There is also less condensation on the roof etc after running the heater.

[ice_medic]

My thoughts on the thermal or not is that I noticed that the walls don't sweat as much or if at all when the heater is going. It is a real time saver so that way when i get home and put away my gear i don't have to set up the house again to let it dry

[DTro]

IMO, yes

I'm not sure what brands you are shopping, but I fished out of both the Wild version and the full thermal Pro Otter houses last year (Lodge size) Don't forget, not only are you getting the upgraded canvas on the Pro, but a better sled, and the nice seating system.

Overall, I preferred the Pro version especially when it came to really cold days. The lack of frost and condensation sure was nice when it came to packing up and keeping things inside the house dry. I also think the thicker canvas will hold up better over time.

I have to say though that I like the black camo color better on the Wild version and there are also times when I prefer the bench seat in the Wild (like when you want to squeeze a third person in).

[choppermn27]

Go thermal if you can afford it. If not add reflectex to top and back.

When fishing anything colder than 20 degrees you can tell you are insulated because it's not all iced up and water isn't dripping all over.

I cannot stand a wet portable and dry mine out in garage is more work.

I am considering adding thermal foil plastic to sides of my house this year with refletex it wouldn't fold on sides.

[pushbutton]

Warmth is probably not as much as an issue as is condensation/moisture, although suppose they ultimately are related. In my opinion, the trade off in weight versus the time spent in the house and exposed to the moisture should be the deciding factor.

[ClownColor]

agree with most...but I like the light weight so I went NO thermal. Never froze yet!

[Mike Stark]

I would say they are worth the extra weight unless you plan on pulling your house through the snow by hand.

[Northlander]

I used a non thermal Otter and a Full thermal Otter Lodge last year and there is no doubt I much prefered the Full thermal. For all reasons above. I saved a lot on propane, many times being able to turn my heater off.I sold my non thermal and will be getting a Full Thermal Otter cabin to replace it. I know my guests loved the Full thermal Otters when they used them last year. A few friends even ordered new Otter Pro series of varied sizes after that.

[maddowg1192000]

I just saw frabill has a new thermal hub out this season and it weighs 2lbs less than the original one. I wonder how that works??

[JohnMickish]

I just saw frabill has a new thermal hub out this season and it weighs 2lbs less than the original one. I wonder how that works??

You have to cut weight somewhere, and unless they are making it out of high tech materials with the high teck cost, you can guess how that is going to work.

The Thermals are awsome for the reasons mentioned. Warmth, quiet, less propane used and less condensation. I used to have a Clam Thermal X2 and now have a new Clam Thermal Bigfoot XL4000 pop up.

Look at it this way, it's kind of like having a boat with a full windshield vs. double bubbles. It's priceless when it's cold out and it makes it much easier to sell.

[walleye44]

Thermals are the only way to fish! No condensation drip & you are fishing in a tee shirt below zero. This means you fish more when you are comfortable. Check out Canvas Craft fish houses with the Norpac R2 material. Canvas Craft is still made in the USA!

http://www.canvascraftinc.com/ice-houses

http://www.norpacr2.com/

[Stick in Mud]

Yeah, those CC houses sure are nice.

I guess I'm not exactly sure I understand how a house with the thermal top will still drip on me....does the condensation form on the thermal fabric or on the sides of the house?

[fishwater]

I guess I'm not exactly sure I understand how a house with the thermal top will still drip on me....does the condensation form on the thermal fabric or on the sides of the house?

Carmike, it works pretty much like a giant tampon, the thermal insulation has unsurpassed absorbancy to help you make it through those heavier fishing days...

[Stick in Mud]

LOL. Great image there....fishwater.

I wanted to get a job working for Tampax but couldn't get any leads. Finally, I called up a friend of mine who worked there, and he said he'd try to pull some strings.

[cichlid_baby]

Exactly.... moisture is still there and being generated by body heat and the heater.. melting ice.. in both styles of houses.....

only difference is in a non-thermal.. it just collects on the inside of the shelter and drips as it becomes too heavy.. and in a thermal.. it just gets absorbed into the fabric like a wet towel... both style of shelters should still require some drying time ideally after fishing especially if they will not be reused for some time.

A severely dampened or wet thermal shelter is a pain in the arse in sub zero temps.

[bobbymalone]

Carmike, it works pretty much like a giant tampon, the thermal insulation has unsurpassed absorbancy to help you make it through those heavier fishing days...

If that's really the difference... Then I'll just continue to tap the ceiling to knock the condensation off.

[CaptainMusky]

Or just buy an uninsulated one and get reflectix. Thats what Im doing and several of my buddies have done for years and never once a drop on any of those drips.

[Rod Woten]

only difference is in a non-thermal.. it just collects on the inside of the shelter and drips as it becomes too heavy.. and in a thermal.. it just gets absorbed into the fabric like a wet towel...

Actrually, not true at all. It never drips becasue the cold air outside the shelter never comes into contact with the warmer moist air inside the shack. THAT'S what forms condensation. By putting an insulating barrier between cold outside air and warm dry inside air, that reaction (condensation) cannot take place.

-Munchy

[muc33]

Rod is spot on. And in the overall question. I say this, why not Thermal. I use so much less heat now that I went thermal on all of my portables. The heater always gives me a headache and now I don't have to deal with it near as much because I rarely use one. And with weight, I don't carry a big buddy with me any longer, I use almost strictly a basecamp or the small round Mr Heater with a 1lb now, if at all. Good clothing, good house, not as much need for heat! Win Win for me and my head!

[Random guy]

After reading through all this I will toss in my two cents. After running guide trips with insulated XT900 Otters last year I will never go back. Dry, warmer, better lighting as they are white inside, no condensation means no frozen zippers or crunchy unfoldable fabric and something I never thought of is quiter. No flapping in the wind. You wouldn't think it would matter but it is a feature I love.

I still use my unisulated units early ice and late season when pulling on foot but the dead of winter the XT900 Otter excels.

[harvey lee]

Jonny is spot on in regards to thermal portables.

I have a Canvas Craft thermal unit and it is as good or better than any other portable on the market.

I have use the Otter pole systems and they cannot hold a candle to the ease of the Canvas Craft poles.

Canvas Craft has been making these thermal houses for years and it would be almost impossible to beat thier units.

Before you buy a thermal portable, do yourself a favor an check out the Canvas Craft units.

The inside is very easy to light up with the white interior. Poles are better and the tub is as good as the Otter tubs also. Never broke or cracked a window in my Canvas Craft unit like my Otters Have in the past years.

[BEEFEATER]

without a doubt thermal is the way to go. fishhouses shouldent come with any thing but thermal. they chrge waaaaay to much for thermal tho.

[cichlid_baby]

Actually, not true at all. It never drips becasue the cold air outside the shelter never comes into contact with the warmer moist air inside the shack. THAT'S what forms condensation. By putting an insulating barrier between cold outside air and warm dry inside air, that reaction (condensation) cannot take place.

-Munchy

We can sit here and debate the process of condensation all day.. but I have owned enough ice houses thermal and non-thermal to know that in real life use... if you are going to be melting ice and adding moisture into the air.. that moisture will eventually get to the point of condensation onto any "cooler" surface regardless of how much insulation you want to put between you and the outside especially when it can not effectively disperse it's water content. It's all relative.. and doesn't necessarily require freezing temps. Prime example is a shower room after a hot bath in the middle of summer with water droplets on the mirror and counters and walls.. clearly condensation has occurred even though is is in a well insulated home.

Many times I have come home with my thermal houses way more saturated with moisture than when I started the day.. so I know they have absorbed much of that moisture from the air.

That's just real life experiences. Don't expect to come home with a dry house just because it claims to have insulated thermal fabric. The water has to go somewhere.