end of the debate? rage vs fixed

[USPENAMC]

Powerstroke,

I agree with you it comes down to that one single shot.. shot placement and what happens when you hit that deer with that ONE shot.

I have only had the opportunity at one deer myself. First day of bow season, First season of bowhunting 40 yard shot. I bought mechanicals at GM from the bin where they were getting rid of stuff. got the mechanicals for like 5 bucks for 3 of them they didnt even have a name on them. My dad was surprised and said wow that made a bigger hole than my 300 wsm and your 30-06. Yeah it was a complete pass through, but then again the shot was right on and the deer only went maybe 40 yards. All things fail and there might be a bigger risk shooting mechanicals but it really comes down to the percentages. you could probably kill a deer with a field point if it came down to it. We owe it to the deer though to make a quick clean kill and have enough blood trail to find the deer.

[Hoyt4]

I also heard too many bad stories about the rage.You will hear a lot of good one's cause that is what everyone is trying to push on you now.You will use what you feel good about harvesting your animal.I have used mechanical and fixed.I like both.I have not lost a deer cause of mechanical.I lost one with a fix but was bad shot.i have seen the rage fall apart just in a quiver.Dealer sent him new heads but I do not trust them right now.I'm sure they will or have fixed this but you need to use what you feel good with and trust.

[Bear55]

And out come the rage bashers. I think all vister was trying to prove was the durability and penetration, which is what most bashers bring up. I'd say he proved the head is very durable and penetrates better than a popular fixed blade head.

slopmater brings up a good point, anything mechanical has a chance to fail and there is alwasy a chance that will happen. People fail to realize that their "mechanical" drop away rests and releases have just as much chance to fail as anything else.

[vister]

like hoyt4 said, the only deer i've lost was from a fixed broadhead. but it was also everything to do with shot placement. all other deer i've taken were with mechanicals. 1 with a tekan II, and others with a rage 2 blade. Sure fixed heads are failproof, most of the time, but i will continue using rage because of how well they fly, and my continued confidence in them with my kills and oak slab demonstration. I was always skeptical with mechanicals, but rage have proven to work solidly for me. If i'm confident in a products ability to perform, you can bet your behind at the moment of truth, that product is what i will be using!

I worry more about getting deer to come out where i want them to, giving me a shot angle, and whether or not they'll pick me off, more than I worry about my gear. Isn't that how it should be??

Until I have a horror story with rage, they'll be the only thing flying out of my tree. and strikers out of the ground blind!

It seems broadheads, like anything you can buy for whatever you are doing, is just another ford and chevy comparison. and i'm sure someone will be upset i left dodge out! haha JK! but its all personal preference. i was just trying to show to all of the nay-sayers that indeed rage can hold up, and give confidence to the rage users! whether or not they hold up for a dozen shots, i retire each broadhead and arrow with the deer it takes, so they only need to last one time for me!

[vister]

fishmon, are you saying that in order for my test to be closer to real life, i should shoot at something like a softball? come on man, regardless of woodgrain, the rage slammed clean through an oak board, and worked as advertised, without any damage. what more do ya want me to do! how convex is the front shoulder of a deer? not very

[NELS-BELLS]

I'm impressed that the rage went thru the board without coming apart, but like you said earlier, would it have penetrated as far if it had rotated about 90 degrees so that it wouldn't have lined up with the grains of the board. I'd like to see how the rage would do with a piece of 1" plywood. Also remember that you are comparing a 2 blade with a three blade. The 3-blade rage would have been a better comparison.

I still think it is impressive that the rage held together.

Nels

[harvey lee]

If I am not mistaken, all the issues that I have heard about were with the 2 blade Rage design and not the 3 blade.

I'm sure there have been a few times they have not deployed but there are also many times a archer has not had his bow set up correctly and missed a shot. At any time, something can go wrong with a shot from the equipment to the set up of the bow.

Nothing is perfect but from what I have seen and heard others talk about who have used the 3 blade design, I would and I am going to use them this season. I have no fear of this mechinal head.

In regards to the hole and blood trail it leaves, I have helped track deer shot with these blades and it was pretty easy with the huge blood trail.

I state all of this from what I have seen and without ever using them until this year.

[vister]

1 inch of plywood has nothing that an inch of oak does. i'm a carpenter. try pounding a nail into oak, vs plywood. you can stick a thumbtack into plywood with ease. try sticking one into oak!

[Meat-Run]

Vister, thank you for that great deminstration. Folks take it for what its worth from the pictures and make your own decision on what broad head to use simple as that.

The more blades or friction you have the less penetration you will get so there might be a little disadvantage for the g5 but who cares that oak board I think will be harder than a leg, rib, and a small doe shoulder that I plan on taking in the near future. Thanks again vister for the pictures and if you do another "experiment" can you include a 4-blade muzzy, and a Spitfire Maxx? I enjoyed your post greatly!!!!

mr

[96trigger]

Quote:

If I am not mistaken, all the issues that I have heard about were with the 2 blade Rage design and not the 3 blade.

I have heard the opposite, everybody I talk to says that the 2 blade are better and the 3 blade had problems.

[InTheNorthwoods]

If I am not mistaken, all the issues that I have heard about were with the 2 blade Rage design and not the 3 blade.

You are mistaken and 96trigger is correct, the problems with the Rage heads were with the 3 blade model. Rage actually had a recall on them I believe, but they have been trouble free for over a year now. From what I hear, most people still prefer the 2 blade.

[harvey lee]

OK, my mistake, the 3 blade and not the 2 blade.

[NELS-BELLS]

1 inch of plywood has nothing that an inch of oak does. i'm a carpenter. try pounding a nail into oak, vs plywood. you can stick a thumbtack into plywood with ease. try sticking one into oak!

I hear ya. My point is that you can drive an ax a lot deeper into a piece of oak with the grain than you can when it is across the grain. Plywood has grains going in different directions on each layer. It appears that the rage just happened to hit the board so that the blades lined up with the grains.

Don't get me wrong, I'm still very impressed with the results. Thanks for doing it.

Nels

[deerminator]

Man Harvey, you really screwed that up. JK. : ) I have heard people say good and bad things about both. I bought some two blades to try this year and have been practicing with the practice tip. I bought them mainly just to try something different as I've used Muzzy's with success the past five years. I like my Muzzy's. I just wanted to shake things up some. What I have noticed with the two blades so far is that when I pull them out of my quiver or bang them against something, one or both of the blades comes open. And if I'm reading the directions correctly, I've done everything right, pushing them in until you feel them click or lock, which really doesn't feel like that to tell you the truth, they just won't go any further. So I'll have to be more careful with them, especially at first light, etc., to make sure they're pushed in all the way.

You don't have any of those issues with a fixed head and there's fewer things mechanically to go wrong. In fact, basically none. But the rages have their advantages over the Muzzys and vice versa. Time and experience will tell which I'm shooting next year.

[bluegillin]

So why is it that Dr. Ed Ashby, "the" leading expert on Arrow Lethality, does not recommend ANY mechanical blade to be used on Big Game Animals??

His tests show that "the Rage" would not penetrate through a water buffalo spine at 20 yards.

[Coach1310]

So why is it that Dr. Ed Ashby, "the" leading expert on Arrow Lethality, does not recommend ANY mechanical blade to be used on Big Game Animals??

His tests show that "the Rage" would not penetrate through a water buffalo spine at 20 yards.

First off.... thanks to Vister for doing the test. He just simply did something that no one else seemed to have the time or want to to do and shared the results with all of us. Don't crucify the guy for sharing information.

Secondly, with tis Ashby guy... who exactly certifies him as "the" leading expert? He may very well be, but for every expert that states one thing, you can surely find another that states otherwise.

There is no way to perfectly imitate a hunting situation and test broadhead penetration. Way too many variables. The best we can do is some standard tests with limited variables and take what we will from that.

Thanks again for sharing Vister.

[DonBo]

So why is it that Dr. Ed Ashby, "the" leading expert on Arrow Lethality, does not recommend ANY mechanical blade to be used on Big Game Animals??

His tests show that "the Rage" would not penetrate through a water buffalo spine at 20 yards.

Dr. Ashby makes and sells his own brand of fixed blade broadhead. I wonder which type he might recommend? And I doubt if even the Rage people would suggest you hunt water buffalo with them.

[fishmon]

fishmon, are you saying that in order for my test to be closer to real life, i should shoot at something like a softball? come on man, regardless of woodgrain, the rage slammed clean through an oak board, and worked as advertised, without any damage. what more do ya want me to do! how convex is the front shoulder of a deer? not very

Vister, if you mainly hunt from a tree stand (at an elevated angle)do your test under those conditions I bet you will start to question the effectiveness of mechanicals. Every surface of a deer is convex if you don't hit exactly at a 90 degree broadside one blade of the broadhead hits first and starts cutting before the other(s)the more elevated (or angled from the deer when on the ground) you are to the deer the more this effects the proper deployment of any mechanical broadhead and thats when failures start occuring.

[Powerstroke]

Any pointed tip can deflect or fail to penetrate well if they hit a convex surface at a steep angle.

This is not a RIGHT or WRONG discussion, just a demonstration of durability. With the grain or not, 2 broadhead penetrated 1" oak without breaking.

[bottom-bouncer]

vister nice test I will give you that! but on a side note to say that you can shoot the rage and have penatration and field point accuracy because its a mechanical. to this I say I have field point accuracy with my muzzys if you cant get a fixed blade to be acurate then you either need to learn to tune your bow or pay someone who knows how.. not directed at you directly vister..

[bottom-bouncer]

vister nice test I will give you that! but on a side note to say that you can shoot the rage and have penatration and field point accuracy because its a mechanical. to this I say I have field point accuracy with my muzzys if you cant get a fixed blade to be acurate then you either need to learn to tune your bow or pay someone who knows how.. not directed at you directly vister..

[propster]

The Rage has its pros and cons, as do all mechanicals and all other broadheads for that matter. Except for extreme angle shots and the concern some might rightfully have of a mechanical vs a fixed, the main issue I have with Rage is the inconsistency of the blade sharpness. If the blades are sharp they're a great head and deliver some unbelievable kills. Unfortunately they've had a little more than their share of problems in this regard, moreso than most others, and that's caused a lot of lost or tough to find animals. They're doing better now. I get a bunch and use the sharp ones for hunting and the not-so-sharp ones for practice. And I've seen more problems not with them not opening on impact, but with them opening prematurely in flight. But I still say they are a devastating head when they work and are sharp.

[MikeEiden]

Vister, I'll start off by saying nice demonstration. I shoot Strikers and have no experience with Rage so I have no issues with them. I would have thought the G5 would have penetrated better also. I wonder since the board cracked if it hadn't flexed more during that shot which absorbed some of the energy to penetrate? I agree that the cutting diameter is larger on the rage but if you look at "blade face" the two are a little closer than one would think. The G5 has a 1.125" cut diameter which means a radius of 0.5625" and there are 3 blades that share this radius so multiply by 3 and you get 1.6875". Still smaller but the energy is being spread along all the blades so it plays a role. Plus this is the amount of board the blades have to shear or cut.

Just throwing out some input but the demonstation showed some durability in both heads. Keep shooting what works for you and good luck this season.

[vister]

as far as Dr ashby's testing, or "knowledge" goes, from everything i've heard from buddies, and watched on hunting shows, there isn't a single broadhead that can blast through even a whitetails spine, let alone a water buffalo.

so let me get this right. He says it is an inferior broadhead because 2 blade rage won't go through a water buffalo spine??? ummmm, ok if i was hunting anything of the sort, with a bow mind you, i would probably buy the smallest fixed blades i can, so penetration isn't an issue. that is, if i WAS hunting such game with a BOW and ARROW!!

[Bear55]

Good point vister, many years back I hit a doe a little high in the spine with a muzzy 3 blade. She went down fast and I finished off with a quick follow up shot but the so called bone crushing muzzy barely penetrated the spine, maybe 3/4 of an inch. So I would say the good Dr. Ashby is full of bias and hot air.