Aitkin Age Deer Baiting Article

[wahoohendoo]

anyone who thinks baiting deer is fair is NOT a sportsman and should hang it up. do your scouting its more rewarding because theirs plenty of deer out there.case closed very guilty!

[flipper]

Guilty as charged. Hopefully some high powered lawyers won't get them off the hook. Baiting laws need to be enforced.

[schmoe147]

GUILTY theres nothing to debate about at all. People need to take the fine and move on. I think them taking guns and equipment away is perfectly fine, it shows that the dnr is serious and if you want to risk it your willing to give up your hunting equipment and rights. Besides If you need to feed deer to hunt them you are not a SPORTSMAN in my opinion your a LAZY HUNTER.

[nateonthenet]

These last two responses are funny. There is deer feeding and deer baiting. Now, I oppose baiting as do most hunters in Minnesota. But, I try to feed the deer. I try to manage the resource. I used to do this with a feeder. Now I do it with food plots. We have organizations like Pheasants Forever that spend hundreds of thousands of dollars managing our resources. I am proud to contribute to their efforts. And, I am proud to make contributions on my own privately.

I spend maybe 10 weekends on my land scouting beds and trails. I hunt! It is a heck of a lot cheaper than the psychiatrists couch and a lot more fun. So, I would caution against calling people lazy for taking an active role in managing our wildlife habitat. Lazy? C'mon. You have no idea as to whether or not that is true. You have no idea how much time these guys spend marking trails or beds. You cannot possibly assess whether they were lazy or not. Responsible? You bet. So, I take offense at someone who calls me or them lazy for responsible habitat management.

And, I again repeat, this seems to be the case with these hunters. They set up a deer feeder to manage their habitat. On deer opener they did not have their feeder operational. On deer opener they did not hunt over their feeder. The only feed that was on the ground were a couple kernals of corn which the dnr guy admitted were dropped when he moved the feeder. The feeder was not operational! Surely, we want private citizens to help manage wildlife habitat. We have too many people who drain ponds. We have too many people who don't care about wildlife. Based on what I have read here, these guys did no wrong. Instead, we have a family who helps preserve our wildlife habitat and become punished for it. Yes, I take pride in managing my land to increase the deer population. And, I wish more people would do the same. So, when I read something like this, I wonder how we could go so wrong. Feeding deer is not illegal!!!! Baiting deer is. These guys were feeding not baiting. Don't confuse the two acts. Feeding should be rewarded not vilified.

[Tom7227]

Does anyone know how quickly a pound or two of corn is likely to disappear from a feeder that is active? Just curious if it's 20 minutes or 20 days.

IMO if the DNR made three visits to the property they were doing it based on some sort of suspicion that there was something going on. Complaint, aerial view, something. I don't think the DNR is going to have 3 CO's working a case where it's only a couple of pounds of corn. As for not finding much on opener - maybe the folks found out about the prior visits by the CO's.

The facts of the case are not expressed in detail at a preliminary hearing. The real issue here is whether the judge deals with the void for vagueness issue. I would think an Assistant Attorney General will get involved if it goes much further in that regard.

[mrklean]

you would be suprised, early last fall we put some bags of corn out 50 pound bags and less then 5 days they were gone, when they find the corn they sit till there full

[Musky Buck]

Reminds me of that article a bit in the star and trib awhile back about that guy shooting deer over bait and he admitted the previous 2 years he scored on a trophy buck each year over bait.

[WaitForIt]

Some of the posters here make the false analogy time and time again about foodplots = bait. They do not. Food plots are not an alternative to baiting for people with more money.

Bait benefits the hunter. Foodplots benefit the wildlife (non-deer species also) and the hunter.

A mature whitetail deer needs 2000-3000lb of forage per year. A mature forest provides as little as 50 lb/ac of forage deer can use. A maintained plot can provide over 3000 lb/ac of forage, and depending on the plant species that can be year round nutrition. Baiting provides none of that. To equate them is to show one's ignorance. Putting out a corn feeder is not 'managing' the land or being a steward of natural resources.

[B. Amish]

Putting out a corn feeder is not 'managing' the land or being a steward of natural resources.

Nice point. I like it.

[colonel42]

I watched Uncle Ted the other day and he had some comments about this whole baiting topic. He said deer can not catch CWD by eating baited corn. He stated if a DNR person where to tell you that then they need to update themselves in biology. Unless you are feeding deer part of other deer such as brain or spinal material deer will not get CWD. Who knows. Not me I'm not a Biologist. One point he said that made a lot of sense was in a state where people purchase license lets say 1 million are sold. Out of that how many deer are shot at and wounded. His point was the ethical way to shoot a deer was to bait them in close enough where they stand there broadside and the hunter can make a 99% deadly kill shot. Who knows?? MN is so against it but other states are all for it. The whole point of this is MN has laws stating no baiting 10 days before hunting. If your caught you should get the book throwen at you. No ifs and or buts. They should have hauled out the feeder!!!! corn or no corn it's still in the woods where they hunt.

[mrklean]

very very interesting point, good old uncle ted gotta love him

[BRULEDRIFTER]

Oh yeah.... "Uncle Ted" he definitely must be the real biologist!

Are ya sure he isn't pushing some type of agenda?

How does he suggest it's spred then? Humans can get it through contact with brain and spinal tissues, but I don't see how the deer population can spred it that way.

I think it's safe to say, and to assume until we get concrete evidence, that it's spred through saliva and feces, like all of the biologists and research suggest and agree on. Why even question this, anyway?

[WaitForIt]

Quote:

deer can not catch CWD by eating baited corn

That remains to be seen. I certainly would not consider Ted authoritative on the subject. Besides CWD, it is pretty obvious TB is spread via saliva and we do not want that. Whole herds have been wiped out where TB is found in the deer herd.

Quote:

Out of that how many deer are shot at and wounded. His point was the ethical way to shoot a deer was to bait them in close enough where they stand there broadside and the hunter can make a 99% deadly kill shot.

And how many more deer will die if we infect them all with TB? Sorry, I don't buy that argument and neither do plenty of states that ban baiting or even feeding of ANY kind including mineral licks just for that reason.

The most ethical kill would be to go to a petting zoo and stab the deer with a spear while your kid was distracting it with a carrot.

[colonel42]

Whatever!!!! With every single state around us is letting the hunters bait while hunting maybe we should be worried. Sounds like your the expert here. I was just stating what I had seen on TV. Do you honestly think these other states haven't looked into it. TB or CWD who know??? Like I said in my previous post I'm not a biologist!!! I was just quoting uncle Ted!!! I wonder what all the other states are doing to prevent TB or CWD while they let their hunters bait??? HMMMM Maybe their biologist are not as smart as ours. Wonder why bear baiting is allowed?? Bet a deer has never gone up to a bait pile and licked off a little snack. Maybe they put out a sign that says for bears only!!!

[candiru]

In at least some of those states the biologists would like to get rid of baiting, but once it is established, it is very hard to do politically. They tell MN's biologists to try their best to keep baiting out of MN.

I heard that Michigan passed some kind of baiting ban recently.

If you ask me the 10 day loophole needs to be closed up with no feeding allowed long before season starts.

[Muskie456]

I like Ted and all but if he is so worried about animals getting wounded he should but down the bow. With that logic we should all have high power rifles with scopes and sit within 30 yards of a corn pile.

[PEATMOSS]

I'm confused. If the primary argument against baiting is concern over CWD, then shouldn't all forms of deer feeding as well as mineral licks be prohibited?

Seems to me one would have to either support an outright ban on any practice that causes deer to go nose to nose or simply argue against baiting on purely ethical grounds. Can't have it both ways guys.

[cribbageboy]

To all you pro-foodploters who are against baitpiles,

I have heard on several occasions (not only this thread) that "food plots help the deer get through the winter and are of little or no benifit to the hunter that plants them." However it amazes me that I never see these people cut down their plots before the season, and furthermore, they always seem to have 1 or 2 stands on the edge of their plots. HMMMM. Coincidence, I dont think so. Foodplots DO benifit the hunter so stop kidding yourselves and others.

I have also been informed by several professors in the Wildlife Management program at my college that white tailed deer in Minnesota need absolutly NO suplimental feeding by humans. Don't you guys ever wonder why the DNR keeps telling us that the deer herd is growing in number every year. Even with the number of hunters droping every year, we still manage to harvest more deer every year. And that my friends is not another coincidence.

The reality is, is that feeding deer artificially, causes them to move from their normal habitat to areas where humans are more abundant. I have to believe that nobody on this forum believes that that is a good thing.

My last theory will hopefully show some people why food plots are no better than bait piles. If I plant 20 acres of corn in the middle of the woods and spend time and money all summer so that the deer have some place to eat in the winter (since apparently the thousands of square miles of wilderness in MN aren't enough)and I decide that come deer season I am going to hunt over it, I am technically doing nothing illegal. But if I go out to the food plot a week into deer season and cut it down and leave it lay there and THEN decided to hunt over it, I could be arrested and have all of my hunting equipment taken away from me. It simply makes no sense to me. Some might say that for this reason the law is too general. I take it a step further.

-make all forms of feeding deer illegal 365 days a year.

Just because those who plant foodplots spend extra time and money each year doesn't mean that it is necessarily a good thing. Sure I can go out and spend extra time and money on a Panzer to take my deer next season, but that doesn't make it right.

Ok, Im done ranting. And yes I do realize I am going to get several replies to this, but do realize I am not attacking anyone personally, more the issue of feeding deer than anything else.

[Bear55]

If I plant 20 acres of corn in the middle of the woods and spend time and money all summer so that the deer have some place to eat in the winter (since apparently the thousands of square miles of wilderness in MN aren't enough)

I know guys who have tried this, the deer didn't touch the corn all winter. They basically had never seen corn before and didn't know it was food, or maybe didn't know how to eat it. Maybe after 10 years they would catch on but the deer up north are programed to live off the food supplies that have kept them alive forever. If they dumped piles of corn on the ground I'm sure the deer would have ate them right up.

[Jameson]

...

My last theory will hopefully show some people why food plots are no better than bait piles. If I plant 20 acres of corn in the middle of the woods and spend time and money all summer so that the deer have some place to eat in the winter (since apparently the thousands of square miles of wilderness in MN aren't enough)and I decide that come deer season I am going to hunt over it, I am technically doing nothing illegal. But if I go out to the food plot a week into deer season and cut it down and leave it lay there and THEN decided to hunt over it, I could be arrested and have all of my hunting equipment taken away from me. It simply makes no sense to me. Some might say that for this reason the law is too general. I take it a step further....

I will try and make some sense of it for ya. If I am hunting with a bow on the 20 acre corn field, what are the odds that when a deer comes into feed the deer will be within shooting range? What are the odds that the same deer comes into shooting range when it comes into a bait pile I am shooting over that is 20 yards away? So, if we were allowed to cut and stack our food plots we could then draw deer into a small area just like a bait pile. And a small food plot differs in a bait pile in that small food plots get wiped clean, it cannot get instantly refilled to continually draw deer in.

Also it is impossible to plant 20 acres of corn in the middle of woods and get corn to grow. Too shady. You would need to clear and plow a 20 acre open field. While that area is plowed the deer are dispersed from your area into another area. Not the same with a 2 foot by 2 foot bait pile. The bait pile taking up only a few square feet leaves the rest of your woods still able to hold deer year round.

I am with you in that feeding of deer (and other wildlife) should be banned all year, but I disagree that food plots a.k.a. corn crops, soybean crops, oats, wheat, alfalfa etc should be banned.

[PEATMOSS]

Outside the CWD concerns, it seems the main objections to baiting are:

1-It disrupts natural deer movements, both seasonal and daily.

2-It draws deer from other areas and concentrates them in a given location thus diminishing hunting opportunites for others that don't engage in this practice

3-It provides an artificial source of nutrition that may well increase herd numbers beyond the capacity of the land and also helps genetically inferior deer survive and breed

4-It raises ethical concerns in that it unsurps traditional woodcraft,scouting and other esteemed skills by simply drawing deer to the hunter

Are these correct? Did I miss anything?

[lichen fox]

So, if I do my scouting, find a good deer trail, set-up my stand nearby, and then place a small amount of corn on the trail...just a gallon or so....just enough to get the deer to stop and concentrate on something else long enough for me to shoot it...and then I removed the left over feed when I drug the deer out, that would be ok?

1-the deer was moving naturaly down the trail I found.

2-no deer knew of the feed since I only put it out when I got in my stand.

3-while I did provide the deer something to eat, I killed it and made sure it did not reproduce

4-I used my woods & scouting skills to find the trail that I believed had a lot of deer traffic...the only thing my bait pile did was stop that deer long enough for a good shot.

So, maybe, if we are just after a "good shot opportunity" we could legalize baiting if you used no more than a gallon of bait and you removed any left over bait when you left for the day...that way it would be kinda the same as putting out some doe in heat to attract a bucks attention away from you while you ready yourself and make the shot...

[cribbageboy]

I think that about covers it PEATMOSS.

Ok Jameson. I think there was a little confusion as to your interpritation of my food plot story.

But if I go out to the food plot a week into deer season and cut it down and leave it lay there and THEN decided to hunt over it, I could be arrested and have all of my hunting equipment taken away from me.

That means that I cut it down and let it lay there, NOT rake it up into a small pile, but leave it cover the entire 20 acres it would now be called baiting. It makes no difference to the deer wether it is standing up of laying down. Yet to the DNR, plants that are perpendicular to the ground are legal, but as soon as they are parralel to the earth, then it becomes illegal. I say absolutely not.

I would also like to mention one other thing that might come up later. Some may say "but ever since I started planting food plots on my land X amount of years ago, the deer have consistantly become bigger and healthier looking." Well bigger and healthier isnt always the best thing guys. Every habitat has a certain "carrying capacity" as we call it in NR, we are quickly allowing deer to exceed that, and that is why cities in MN are having to hire sharpshooters to take out surplus deer.

I tell you what, if Obama were to make Grocery Stores and Restraunts illegal in the US, every man, woman and child in America would learn how to hunt REEEEEEAAAAl quick, and for that, many of us would probably die off. BUT REMEMBER it isn't always a bad thing. Just because food plot planters are coming home with 10+ pointers every year doesn't tell you anything about the deer herd as a whole. Sure I can go downtown to the bar and pick up some chick that is drop dead gorgeous, but it wouldn't change the fact that the obesity rate in America is out of control and still growing.

[lichen fox]

"That means that I cut it down and let it lay there, NOT rake it up into a small pile, but leave it cover the entire 20 acres it would now be called baiting."

I don't believe that cutting down or tilling the food plot in the fall would be considered "baiting"...you do, have a right to prepare your plot for the next planting season. I believe that would be considered..."normal farming or "food plot pratices"...if that's the way you liked to do it... Bait is defined as something that has been "placed by the hunter" for the purpose of enticing deer...cutting or tilling your food plot would be no different than the acorns falling out of an oak tree from the vibrations you make while climbing into your stand...

[mrklean]

I think this has moved away from the aitkin case