Letting small bucks walk?

[Tom Linderholm]

Jeff,

The one benefit we have is most of the tracks of land around us are larger tracks of land that are owner occupied, they all know the bucks that are out there and want their kids and themselves to have chances at some of those trophies.

The tough ones to convince are those with smaller tracts for hunting use only, rightfully so with the price of hunting land I would want a little meat to come home with too, at some point one would hope they will come along but can't blame them if they don't.

[Shoot2Kill]

I find it funny that shoottokill says he didn't bash anyone and i you read the quote above it shows he did. Here's the deal, I get to hunt 2-3 days a year for deer that's it. This year I saw two that were out of range and that was it. If I see a deer come through I'm popping it cause I love the meat. I don't care about a trophy. If you do, great let them walk. But don't walk all over others that shoot what they are licensed for. It goes back to the fishing. I fish and if I wanna keep a limit I will. If you don't, then don't. Don't put others down because they shoot and take what they want. The big thing is the meat is not going to waste. I don't feel more like a man because a 10 pointer happened to walk by at the right time. I take a doe or a three pointer anytime if I want some meat.

Wow, you think that was a bashing?

Again, the title on this thread was about letting little bucks walk, if you don't agree with it, why even open the thread other than to come in and stir the pot?

Some of you guys are awfully uptight....just relax a little, it's just an internet forum.

[Shoot2Kill]

Originally Posted By: Shoot2Kill

Originally Posted By: smnduck

If you hunt in the south central part of the state, just shooting does is NOT an option. A doe tag is once every 3-4 years to get.

How so? Up until this year you could shoot 2 does and one buck in almost the entire state and if you bow hunt you still can shoot a doe without a lottery permit in the entire state.

You knew what this thread was about by reading the first post...why join in if you don't agree with it?

The term "shooter" is not going away.

MN is so far away from the "pros" coming in and locking up all the land it isn't even funny....the genetics aren't here to consistently grow what they are looking for, but decent bucks can be harvested if they are just given a pass when they are young.

Are you so afraid to go home empty handed that you just can't fathom the thought of passing a little buck? Is deer hunting to you all about the kill so you kill the first thing you see and go home or would you like to actually spend some time in the woods and maybe learn a thing or two? I just can't figure out why you guys that oppose letting little bucks walk wouldn't want to actually SEE a big buck once in a while. Have you ever? You never will if you shoot the first buck you see every year. I think it is such a rare occurance for the "gun hunter" crowd in MN that they just don't think it will ever happen so why bother. One close encounter with a buck that makes your knees shake so bad you can't stand up is all it takes to change your thinking.

Either way, nobody said you had to do anything...shoot what you want, be happy, if you don't like threads about passing little deer don't join in.

You are wrong about one thing, the genetics in MN deer are as good as other midwestern states. The difference between MN and states like IA and IL is age. The typical 3 year old in MN will look just like 3 year olds in neighboring states, its getting them to 3 years old and beyond that is the issue. I have had taxidermists tell me the genetics are so good in MN that people are bringing in 130" deer to get mounted that they think are 3 year olds and when aged its discovered they are actually 2 year olds.

We agree on one thing...getting them beyond a 3 y/o is the issue, heck, even beyond 2! Are these deer being aged by a whitetail bilogist or just the taxidermist so there are some facts to those 130" 2 year olds?

If the genetics were that good and that many 130" 2 year olds were running around don't you think outfitters would be in MN leasing up thousands of acres to take advanatage of those genetics? It's not a bad thing the greedy outfitters aren't here in the numbers like in other states, it just shows that something is missing.

This whole original topic (passing the little guys) is strong sided on both sides, I just hope that some day the guys that shoot the first buck they see every year really have a chance to have a close encounter with a true hog...then they'll understand where all these "QDM" posts come from and why having more big bucks around isn't a bad thing for MN deer hunters.

[james_walleye]

Well i will say this, i don't know what part of the state you hunt, but the land i used to hunt i was not happy with as far as seeing big bucks. I headed farther east and in 7 sits on stand this fall over there i saw 3 bucks in that 125-130" range. The opening day of slug the neighbor shot a 160" buck. A mile away i know a 163" 10 pointer was shot with the bow and the last day of slug season a buck pushing 190" was shot. What i have found is that the majority of the people in this area will not pull the trigger unless its a wallhanger, and I believe it after hunting down there. What this area has is the same genetics as land 50 miles to the west, but what the area gives these deer is a much better chance to get to 3 years and beyond. Whether a 130" deer is 2 or 3 years old, the point is that your typical 3 year old in MN will be in this class just as it will be in other midwestern states. A better than average amount of bucks are getting to 3 years old in this area. You get that many bucks to 3 years and you obviously get more bucks to 4 or even 5 and now you get real bruisers. Age is what is missing in most of MN. It doesnt matter what kind of genetics you have if deer have a hard time getting to 2 or 3 years old. That being said i won't criticize people for shooting young bucks. I will say though that if people could see the caliber of bucks consisently that i saw this fall they might be a little more prone to let a little buck walk.

[Shoot2Kill]

You get that many bucks to 3 years and you obviously get more bucks to 4 or even 5 and now you get real bruisers. Age is what is missing in most of MN. It doesnt matter what kind of genetics you have if deer have a hard time getting to 2 or 3 years old.

I agree man.

A lot of it completely depends on the area of the state you are in and that is for sure. Congrats on seeing all those decent bucks....makes hunting a lot more fun eh? That is what I was used to growing up in IA......consistently seeing decent bucks allows one to not even consider pulling the trigger on the little ones and that is why so many people here just don't believe in it because they have never seen that.

[Sandmannd]

Originally Posted By: Sandmannd

I find it funny that shoottokill says he didn't bash anyone and i you read the quote above it shows he did. Here's the deal, I get to hunt 2-3 days a year for deer that's it. This year I saw two that were out of range and that was it. If I see a deer come through I'm popping it cause I love the meat. I don't care about a trophy. If you do, great let them walk. But don't walk all over others that shoot what they are licensed for. It goes back to the fishing. I fish and if I wanna keep a limit I will. If you don't, then don't. Don't put others down because they shoot and take what they want. The big thing is the meat is not going to waste. I don't feel more like a man because a 10 pointer happened to walk by at the right time. I take a doe or a three pointer anytime if I want some meat.

Wow, you think that was a bashing?

Again, the title on this thread was about letting little bucks walk, if you don't agree with it, why even open the thread other than to come in and stir the pot?

Some of you guys are awfully uptight....just relax a little, it's just an internet forum.

I consider what you said to Wade as bashing. As far as why I came on here, I like to see all view points. If I started a thread called "I only shoot fawns and buttons" would you take a look at it? If folks want to pass on deer to get a trophey, I'm fine with that. What I'm not fine with is people putting others down for not doing the same when it's within in the law. When I fish eyes I rarely keep any over 20" because those are the breeders. Wouldn't it stand the same that the "Mature" bucks you are waiting for are the breeders and thus shortening the supply of the blood line of the big bucks? Just curious. I haven't hunted deer much, but I'm just as happy with a doe cause I just love Veni. I'm not saying I wouldn't love to get a trophy buck someday, but it's not what I live for. When I get a monster fish it's a great thrill, but that's not why I fish.

[Hills]

There is nothing worse than seeing a dead button buck/spike. Shoot a friggin doe!

[Fishhawk150]

I've been hunting the Southeast part of the state for just over 20 years. The local hunters know the big bucks are around and most pass on the basket rack bucks. In the last 3 years I've seen more bucks and more big bucks then the last 6 or 7 years before that. Yes, I've shot some basket racked bucks but I've also shot a very nice buck that scores about 130. I hunt the 3B season and now I let the basket racks pass through and shoot a doe. I know that in the area that I hunt if I let them go there will be more bigger bucks in years to come. That area has some very big bucks and I've seen them. A 150 to 170 class buck is something that I want to be able to shoot some day. With that said there are guys in my party that have only shot one basket rack or have never shot a buck before. What do I say to them? Shoot it if that is what you want to do but please understand and don't get all bent out of shape when I pass on those bucks. It's slowly getting there that more guys in the group understand that and even though it's fun to shoot something with horns it always seems that the big bucks are what you dream about shooting....the only that will happen is letting the little ones go.

I can't tell the difference between a doe and a small buck when I'm eating them.

[fishermusk]

That was my point to this thread, Some people have accepted the fact that if they want to get a big buck they will have to let some smaller bucks walk. And to the folks who just want meat or are young hunters, there is nothing wrong with shooting the first deer you see. I think a young hunter should take every good shot that they are presented. Times they are a changing.

Good Luck,

Dave

[archerystud]

More and more hunters are letting the little guys walk. I have a neighbor who has shot a ton of little bucks over the years. I do have a problem when one guy shoots 3-5 little bucks when I've been passing them up all Fall.

Anyways he finally got a beauty that will score around 150 this year. He seems to be rethinking how he will be shooting in the future!! I sure hope so!!!!

[96trigger]

That way of thinking is catching on, more and more people are starting realize the little ones need to get old, before they get big. As for the button bucks, they don't bother me so much. That can be a hard thing to distinguish, unlike forks and baskets, but again, to each their own. If you are willing to let the small bucks pass as I do, that is great. I hunt all three seasons in Minnesota, so its easier for me. If I only hunted 2 days a year, first of all, I probably wouldn't care as much about shooting a big deer, and secondly, I would probably shoot what presented itself. Probably more than half the deer hunters in the state are like that. But look on the other side, the other half are really starting to get better at passing up the smaller bucks, they are the ones that will hunt for a full week, or multiple seasons, and will more than likely, eventually connect. They just shouldn't expect it every year. I believe thats why them call them trophy's and you often hear the term "buck of a lifetime". I would love to shoot them every year, but I don't, I can say this however, I see that buck of a lifetime almost every year, at least once, so I know he is out there. Just seeing him look like an angus steer with horns makes passing on all those little bucks worth it. It is that "encounter" that some on here talk about.

[Shoot2Kill]

Just seeing him look like an angus steer with horns makes passing on all those little bucks worth it. It is that "encounter" that some on here talk about.

Exactly.

Nice post.

[Shoot2Kill]

Originally Posted By: Shoot2Kill

Originally Posted By: Sandmannd

I find it funny that shoottokill says he didn't bash anyone and i you read the quote above it shows he did. Here's the deal, I get to hunt 2-3 days a year for deer that's it. This year I saw two that were out of range and that was it. If I see a deer come through I'm popping it cause I love the meat. I don't care about a trophy. If you do, great let them walk. But don't walk all over others that shoot what they are licensed for. It goes back to the fishing. I fish and if I wanna keep a limit I will. If you don't, then don't. Don't put others down because they shoot and take what they want. The big thing is the meat is not going to waste. I don't feel more like a man because a 10 pointer happened to walk by at the right time. I take a doe or a three pointer anytime if I want some meat.

Wow, you think that was a bashing?

Again, the title on this thread was about letting little bucks walk, if you don't agree with it, why even open the thread other than to come in and stir the pot?

Some of you guys are awfully uptight....just relax a little, it's just an internet forum.

I consider what you said to Wade as bashing.

Okay then...then to Wade I apologize.

Nobody is putting anybody down, if you think that, then well, I guess we'll agree to disagree if you see it that way.

So just let the "mature" breeders die of old age then so during their life they have the opportunity to breed each year to produce 1.5 y/o bucks for hunters to shoot? Is that how it should work? They are not like your "breeding 20" walleye". I've witnessed a 1.5 and a 2.5 y/o buck breeding a doe twice in my life so they all get the chance. They all have the potential to be mature, whether they will be a giant hog or not is totally different, but mature is something they can all become. They carry the same genes when they are 1.5 as they do when they are 4.5 and beyond so it's not shortening the "blood supply" if you take them out when they reach maturity.

[slimngrizzly]

My opinion...... If there can be a thread on here where people get patted on the back for whacking jr. and posting a picture, we can sure as heck have a thread on here praising those who dont.

I believe thats what the original post was about.... and I tip my hat to you.

[Bear55]

Well said slim. Hey a group of 4 passed 8 little bucks this rifle season. The neighbors got 3 of them for sure but there is 5 little bucks that have a chance to make it to next year!!! We also got lucky in that 4 little buck shooters in our group didn't see any small bucks so things could be looking up next year.

[james_walleye]

One thing in the southeast (zone 3) that has helped immensely is getting rid of that bucks only season. You would have how many thousand hunters in the woods for 9 days and if one wanted to put meat in the freezer there was only 1 option, you shot a buck and if it came down to it, you shot a young buck. Getting rid of the bucks only and now giving people the option to purchase a bonus tag or two and shoot a doe makes it much easier for people to pass up the young bucks during this season. The result in the last couple years is more mature bucks running around. You get more people seeing more mature bucks, again it makes it easier for a person to let a little guy walk.

[Shoot2Kill]

My opinion...... If there can be a thread on here where people get patted on the back for whacking jr. and posting a picture, we can sure as heck have a thread on here praising those who dont.

I believe thats what the original post was about.... and I tip my hat to you.

Allelujah! You betcha. Wish I could buy you a beer....

[Shoot2Kill]

One thing in the southeast (zone 3) that has helped immensely is getting rid of that bucks only season. You would have how many thousand hunters in the woods for 9 days and if one wanted to put meat in the freezer there was only 1 option, you shot a buck and if it came down to it, you shot a young buck. Getting rid of the bucks only and now giving people the option to purchase a bonus tag or two and shoot a doe makes it much easier for people to pass up the young bucks during this season. The result in the last couple years is more mature bucks running around. You get more people seeing more mature bucks, again it makes it easier for a person to let a little guy walk.

Very solid points and I'd like to buy you a beer too. ....it's too bad that most of the SW section of MN south of I-94 was buck only for gun season unless you drew a lottery doe tag because I'm sure many little guys got whacked just because they were all anyone could shoot without that lottery doe tag. The problem lies in what do you do if the population gets low enough to limit it to 1 deer only and doe by lottery permit? Why kill any does if the population is that low? But if you don't allow some does to be shot then every deer being shot is a buck which contradicts the purpose of this thread....slipperly slope for sure.

I enjoy having places close to home to hunt to maximize my time in the field so I don't head north like lots of people do but I struggle with the fact that there are more deer in the big woods where you can shoot 5 with a thriving wolf population than there are in the farmland zone where there are thousands of giant food plots for them to graze on all year. Are there more up there because it's simply tougher to hunt them and less get killed and down here in the farm land the party hunting groups drove nearly every section a few years ago when you could shoot 5 and whiped them out? I guess it would be worth a good look into the harvest stats. In a few years will the big woods be 1 deer also because of allowing people to take 5? ??????

[96trigger]

Quote:

One thing in the southeast (zone 3) that has helped immensely is getting rid of that bucks only season. You would have how many thousand hunters in the woods for 9 days and if one wanted to put meat in the freezer there was only 1 option, you shot a buck and if it came down to it, you shot a young buck. Getting rid of the bucks only and now giving people the option to purchase a bonus tag or two and shoot a doe makes it much easier for people to pass up the young bucks during this season. The result in the last couple years is more mature bucks running around. You get more people seeing more mature bucks, again it makes it easier for a person to let a little guy walk.

That is very true, I have always hunted 3B, and I wasn't sure about how it was going to go having the buck hunters (3A) be able to shoot does too. I was concerned that we wouldn't see as many deer. I posted this like two years ago. I was right we didn't see as many deer, we had to hunt harder, but we still got as many as before, and you know what, we even see some nice bucks now, it makes some of the guys I hunt want to hold out for a nice one when they know that they are still around. For years they would shoot anything because the "Buck Hunters got all the big ones or they scared them all into the deer sanctuaries" The last two years, we are noticing a few more than normal and it has helped.

[LetEmGrow]

It's always amazing to see how much "talk" is generated from the discussion of "Letting One Go"!

My hat's off to you, Fishermuskie! I certainly hope & trust you will see that same Buck again some day.

I think if most people actually knew how vulnerable big Bucks are - or how many times a big trophy Buck had been "Caught and Released", they’d be very surprised.

That being said, it must be a personal decision. Just because I may let some go, don't mean others should or need to - unless it’s on my land. Even there I don’t ever restrict the kids or Elders.

I guess I see it as a personal choice. But I do very much respect and support yours.

Best of Luck & keep havin' fun!

"Its a lot harder to GROW a trophy buck than KILL one. GROWING one takes 5 years - KILLING one takes 5 seconds!"

[propster]

These last several posts have been spot on. I can almost guarantee you not one person on this thread has a problem with - young hunters, new hunters, elderly hunters, longtime hunters who just haven't shot many deer or had many opporunities, or hunters who hunt where there just aren't that many deer - take an immature buck now and then, even more than one. I can't speak for the others, but my problem is with those who consistently take immature bucks year after year after year, even though they have plenty of opporunity to shoot does, they don't because they somehow feel better shooting a small buck. And also those who kill several immature bucks each year because of party hunting - depriving others of their chance to shoot a buck. And I'm not talking about taking a second small buck when it's 2 deer for the year for 8 hunters, I'm talking about the guy who fills most of the tags in a group. Yeah, it still happens..

[Hammer Handle]

My family mainly hunts for the meat and the experience.

This year, I let a nice 6-point walk. Turns out, that was the only deer I had a shot at. Now I wish I would have taken it. Oh well. This was the first deer I ever let walk (that was a buck).

There are currently tons of deer in our area and our season was very successful, but being I have gotten deer for 13 years in a row...I get the "worst" spot to sit.

I have shot big bucks, but don't "brag" about them. Anyone can go harvest a big deer if they want to go to a "game farm". I personally like to "brag" about the deer I have shot...about 60 in my lifetime. It shows how our land attracts the deer and wildlife.

Now my goal is to help the young party memebers get a deer...and my father...who may not hunt much longer.

[Surface Tension]

"depriving others of their chance to shoot a buck."

I think that about wraps up this whole thread so I'm not targeting you in particular.

So in other words a guy should pass up a buck so he won't deprive someone else? Who is the selfish one here?

It comes down to personal choice. If a guy wants any buck that is his choice to make, not anyone else's. If a guy wants to take a small buck over a doe, again that is his choice. There is not a right or wrong there. The wrong is when someone pushes their choice on others. Educating is one thing, "educating" one to take on your way of thinking or what hunting is to you is not educating. It is in essence saying that any deer is not good enough for you and therefore shouldn't be for the other guy either. I have a huge problem with that.

You can decide for yourselves what hunting means to you. If its antlers you want go for it. If its meat you want then that is all that matters. Could be just to experience the hunt.

No one should tell you what your hunt should be like.

Have I passed on small bucks, yes I choose to do that only because there was a good chance I'd have a latter opportunity for meat in the freezer and I choose to continue hunting till that could happen. If you tell me I should pass on small bucks you'll meet a lot of resistance and then I'll lecture you hard on how I'll do as I please.

If and when we end up with a Bucks Only season, a limited time to hunt, or not many deer, I know what I'll do and could care less what anyone thought. After all it is my hunt.

[Musky Buck]

It is all pretty crazy. In 1983 when it was bucks only the first 3 days there were more mature bucks around. The reasons though are different then from today. Back then, less hunters, larger hunks of land, more dairy farms, way less bow hunting and muzzy hunting, shorter seasons at least the old zone 4 and bow season was shorter, way less technology, generally colder rifle seasons, all of those seasons you were definitely warming up the truck in the morning, the blizzard year I never made it out, couldn't, 2 day season and done, and much more. Heck even way fewer vehicles on the road, remember when HWY 10 was single lane and 55 mph, now 75 or you're holding up traffic. It's 2008 now. For me I choose to shoot only a mature buck, nothing else unless a wounded animal would come by. You can choose to shoot yearlings bucks if you want. Everyone is at a different part of the game. You'll know when you are ready to let them walk, to each their own. When I was like 14-15 years old my dad wanted me to already let them walk, I always wondered if I would see another buck, we only had a 2 day season, it became way easier once the multi-zone tag came along because you then had another 4 days the next weekend. Then the all-season came along and you could wait even longer because of muzzleloading, then the rifle season zone 4 changed from 2 or 4 or all 6 days to 9. I guess for me it became I like releasing my muskies,releasing crappies, and walleyes, keeping enough for a meal and the smaller fish, I guess when you scope a yearling buck and don't shoot it it is kinda the same thing. I get more pleasure in releasing then I do with keeping a full stringer or killing a deer. I guess that's just the stage I'm at in regards to "our" natural resources. I'm 37 years old and people will go through their own stages, it just takes some longer or shorter amounts of time and some will never get there, hunt and fish by the rules and you are doing fine by me. Merry Christmas to all.

[Cooter]

The bad thing in some parts of WI are that people practicing QDM who want some venison end up shooting a small buck because either they aren't seeing does or so few they are reluctant to. I could use another doe in the freezer but am so sick of seeing squat that I won't.