Am I Wrong?

[straydog]

It's terrible that the counties are getting so greety they have to shame themselves for another $120. MAKES ME SICK.

just a little venting but the truth

[Scenic]

If you feel you are wrongfully accused and charged then take it to court. Don’t sit and argue with Officer, don’t just sit and complain about it, just take your side of the story and get your buddy to go with you and fight it. The officer obviously felt that he had enough evidence to charge you with a crime. Your responsibility, if you feel he is wrong, is to follow the channels.

In my opinion according to your first post you are going to have a tough time with this. You indicated that your buddy was in the house watching your rod. What would have happened if a fish bit that line while you were drilling holes? I would guess that your buddy would have set the hook therefore he was really fishing with three lines. Or maybe he would have came out of the house to stop you from drilling to tell you that you had a bite? I doubt that one. But because you admitted that the line in question was your’s I would guess the officer chose to charge you with an unattended line rather then charge him with fishing with 3 lines.

I wasn’t there so I don’t know what he seen or all the details. But again if you think he was wrong then challenge it. For the most part any of the officers that I have had contact with in this area have been very professional. They are not there to become your best friend so they may not stop and have idle chit chat with you. They are there to do a job that we pay them to do. A tough job at that. Do they make mistakes? Sure they do. Everyone does. Unfortunately any Peace Officer is in the public “lime light” all the time when he goes to work. But if you feel this officer did make a mistake then you need to go through the system to show why you feel he made a mistake. That is why they have a court systems.

[hanson]

When the COs are out patrolling Red, I do not think they are interested in giving warnings. If you are in violation, they are going to tag you for it. I liken it to increased enforcement of DUIs around the 4th July or New Years.

We were checked last year on Red and the CO told us they were finding violators all over the place. The #1 violation was fishing extra lines.

I guess the bottom line is to mind your P's & Q's on Red or you will get tagged.

The CO's stopped by our shack after dark and the gentleman was on foot.

[katoguy]

Let us know how this turns out. Interesting thread.

I'd personally pay the ticket. Use the time saved (not going to court) to skip work and go fishing.

[deeky]

When things are done wrong and people refuse to work with you, my experience has been that their superiors like to hear about it. Whether or not you fight the ticket, let the CO's superior know about it. Also, send an email to the state legislator of the area. They don't want bad blood in a group of people that feeds their economy. Think about it - if things got too out of hand, people would simply stop going to URL to fish to avoid the hastle. How much money would be lost? I know a bus company that was inappropriately and repeatedly being harrassed by the dot cops. A letter to the legislator and a follow up phone call and there were no more problems.

This definitely sounds like something the system needs to address. Use the system to its fullest, just do it the right way.

[metrojoe]

Your right these types of posts make for some great reading.

I agree that the CO was well with in the law to issue a ticket, but doesn't this really open up the interpretation aspect of the laws?

What about lines being down in the shack while your sleeping? Seems to me this could be considered an "unattended line"?

[nitroant]

I am not sure about if you would or would not win, but him telling you that your lucky cause he isn't going to take your gear is B.S. I was threatened by a state trooper once about having my car towed since I pulled over in a no parking zone to check a map (it was only for a minute and was out of the way of traffic) and to this day it still burns my rear. I was only like 17 at the time and I am sure it was done to intimidate me and that was wrong. I am not saying all CO's are bad, but they don't have the best reputation in the first place and things like this don't help. It gets my blood pumping to hear of someone else being threatened too just for intimidation factor.

[Munk]

If it were me I'd at least go to the first hearing and ask for a "formal complaint" which is the officers statement of facts that he based his decision on to write the ticket. After reading it you can either just pay it or fight on..

My personal opinion on the subject is you'd probably lose but who knows??????

[STMA_I_HUNTER]

The only thing that is stated in the regulations relating to distance from line is

"Anglers must remain within 200' of their tip-up"

WAG416 you sound a little angry over the whole "donut" comment. What's your take on this?

[Deitz Dittrich]

STMA- I believe that Mr.WAG is an officer or deputy. I could totally see that the joke would get quite old in his shoes!

[PierBridge]

Quote:

---

You are right there is nothing in the regs about being within 200 feet of your rod. There is nothing in the regs about being within 1 foot or 1000 feet either. So by that reasoning if you had your back to your rod (no visual contact there) and you are a foot away from it your line is unattended and you should be cited.

---

It's does say you may not fish an unattended Line.

Sitting with your back to your pole while fishing 1 foot away is not fishing an unattended line. If you think you can leave your pole unattended while fishing 1000 feet away go for it but thats a bad interpretation of the Law and you will lose that one.

I understand everyones frustration with this one it does seem a little bit unfair, and I hope he gets it dropped.

But based on my expirences the last 5 years there are not many breaks or warnings these days.

As far as going out for a smoke or bathroom break my guess is if your not hole hopping "fishing" 75 feet away the CO hopefully would use good judgment and not site anyone.

I think the CO probably asked who's line it was before ticketing you?

[Keith_MN]

raj22,

I think I'm with the majority here who feel that the officer stepped over the line in enforcing the letter of the law. He could have used the situation as an opportunity to explain his enterpretation of the situation and given you a warning, but not a ticket.

I think I would take Munk's advice and go to court and ask for a copy of the officers "formal complaint" prior to making a decision as to whether to pay the fine or not. Regardless, I would also send an email to the local DNR office and your legislature (with a link to this thread).

Let us know how it turns out if you do pursue it.

[juggs]

This is another fishing law that seems to have a lack of rationale. What would be the necessity of staying within 75' of your line? I think you got a raw deal. Even if you did break the law, this is one of those that shouldn't be on the books. If I understand the ruling correctly, doesn't the CO have to ask permission to enter your shack, and if he didn't ask, wasn't he out of bounds? Maybe you have a case.

[setterguy]

Let me get this straight, every time I leave a line in the water to run out and get a tip up, I am in violation of the law? Very scetchy.

[Bigsmitty]

Raj, I think you got a raw deal on this one. Does anyone believe in comon sense anymore? Id pay the fine I guess but I cant say I wouldnt do the same thing again. I bet the CO lets 90% of the people off in this situation. You just were unlucky that day.

[Marmot]

I say professional judgement was not used by the CO for your situation.

[S.D. Ice Angular]

I think you got the shaft also. I would try and fight it myself, but my work schedule is not very strict so I would not be affected by missing work and would use the rest of the day to go fishing up there again.

Please keep us posted and updated, I think most us are in your corner…

[caseymcq]

I didn't say you could fish 1000 feet away, nor would I try. The point I was making is that there is nothing in the regs that speaks to a distance measure to define an unattended line. Just like there is nothing in the regs that says visual contact. I know plenty of people that use Strike Sensor tip-up pagers that can't see there tip. That doesn't mean that the tip-ups are unattended.

I also said that I was giving a facetious example, that was omitted when I was quoted.

Raj didn't need a warning or a break, he wasn't doing anything wrong.

[DTro]

What about keeping your line in all night as you sleep. I would say that is more "unattended" then anything.

[slick814]

I'd say pay the ticket and move on. You won't win this thing in court. The regs state that all lines must be attended, and technically your line that was in the shack wasn't attended. As far as distance goes, the 200' rule only allows for tip-ups. I assume that the reasoning for this would be that there are many folks who fish tip-ups only, and to have to have them 10 feet from each other wouldn't make much sense.

While I may or may not agree that the CO could've just given a warning, he was well within his right to issue you the ticket. When your buddy got out of the portable, he opened the door, correct? That is all the CO needs to see in that case. 3 rods in holders, etc.

To be honest, I'd almost think that if your buddy came with you and tried to vouch for you, it might backfire on him. If the judge were to agree that you shouldn't have received the ticket, he could possibly issue one to you buddy if he admitted in open court that he had 3 lines in the water with him.

Fellas, it's one of those things in MN.. Land of 10,000 Lakes and 10,000,000 laws... Petty, yes, but the law is the law and you'll be better off in the long run just to pay the fine and move on. One thing you might want to do, though, is to go to court and talk to the prosecutor. He might cut you a deal and keep it off your record.

[DOAducks]

Raj22, If it makes you feel better I just recieved the same ticket 2 weeks ago up in URL. Me and my buddy were fishing in a portable when a guy came over to borrower my auger because his did not work, he set up about 75 to 100 feet away. about 2 hours past by and we were gonna leave soon, so I ran over to get my auger back when a co pulled up to the portable and I.D himself to my buddy, who didn't think anything was wrong so he opened the door and the co asked whose lines are those ,he pointed to me walking back with my auger and the co said he was doing us a favor by just giving us this ticket and not one for to many lines. seriously I have never gotten a ticket for hunting or fishing and I go to T.I.P meetings reguarly, I almost feel ashamed. I think they need to stop wasting time with things like this and use it to find the people keeping to many fish or illegal fish. just my pitty story

[Raj22]

Thanks for all the replies. I will just add one more thing. I talked to my buddy tonight and he had a little more information for me. He did see the CO in the house, one foot out of the house, and rest of body in the house, without permission. And the CO must have opened the door because my buddy does remember zipping the door shut behind him when he came out of the house. It was a little chilly in the house and he was trying to keep the heat in. We like to have 2 Mr heaters going in my 4 man house when it cold and his didn't survive the trip out of Hillmans, so we only had one heater going. He also said he will not make the trip with me to fight it, but I assume I can bring an affidavid (sp?) signed and notorized from him if that will be good enough. Thanks again everyone for all your input.

[WAG416]

STMA-

Deitz was right, the donut joke is a bit old. It doesnt anger me, I was just wondering what the lack of a donut might have on this officer writing the ticket.

Interesting post though, I do however dissagree with the Nothing better to do comments. I know there are those that feel some laws are so petty why bother enforcing them, if thats the case, why do they even have such laws? Much of the bigger offenses are found pursuing the smaller ones. As far why he wrote the citation........officer descretion. Some will cite you, some won't.

I'm not here to give legal advise, I would just say do what you feel is right. Thats all I really feel comfortable telling you.

NOW, Back to my coffee and donut

[castmaster]

Raj,

a few questions here. if a fish had bit on the line you had down would your buddy have attempted to catch that fish? if so he would have "technically" been fishing too many lines then. (and what guy isnt going to grab that pole when the bobber goes down?)

could you tell, be it visually or by audio or any other means besides your buddy, tell if you had a bite on that line? if not then yes, in my opinion, you were "technically" fishing with an unattended line.

some have mentioned people who use the beepers on their tip ups, so it cant be a visual thing. that would be the point of the beeper, it alerts you to a tripped flag WHEN YOU CANNOT SEE THE FLAG. if you had tip ups positioned where you cant see them, and do not have beepers on them, in my opinion you are fishing with an unattended line.

i cant tell you how many times i've had to go over to another group of anglers and tell them they had a flag up. seems like alot of guys like to throw a couple tip ups out, climb in there shack and forget about 'em.

with all that being said, i dont think your some kind of outlaw or anything. thats the tough part with laws and the need to have some officer discretion. "technically" i feel you were fishing with an unattended line, buy i wouldnt have wrote the ticket if i was a co. i would have given you a warning, got you to understand you could have gotten a ticket. but to me what you did is far different than someone putting out "bank poles" or trot lines or something similar. while the law doesnt see it as such, i do feel there are varying degrees of "unattended".

plus, leaving your line in the water while you duck outside is a good way to lose a rod and reel!!

[Gus]

I'm thinking along the same lines as slick. The CO saw a violation in his opinion. Either it was your buddy using too many lines, or you having an unattended line. There is nothing written in the regs on what exactly constitutes an unattended line so that discression is up to the CO. He felt there was a violation to the letter of the law. Heck, he might not even agree with it knowing you were right outside but he is doing things to the letter of the law. So either your buddy had 3 lines in the water or you had an unattended line. I think he did your buddy a favor by giving you the ticket. Sure it sucks, I've witnessed similar citations issued that just don't seem to make a whole lot of sense, but they are obligated to go by the letter of the law. Now the CO entering your house without permission is a whole other issue. This may be the part that can really get you off the hook. That being said I personally I think I would just pay the ticket and move on. It's not worth your time to fight it seeing as you may lose and then be out much more $$ and time. I wish you luck in your decision.