Scopes on muzzleloaders

[Maverick41]

I was wondering what everyone's thoughts were about having scopes on muzzleloaders during muzzleloader season? Personally I would love to be able to use a scope. I've heard that the MN DNR has been thinking about letting us use them. I know that there's the argument about how it wouldn't be a primitive weapon if we used scopes, but I also know that a lot of deer get wounded during muzzleloader season because some people misjugded or whatever. If we had scopes it would take away a lot of those guessing shots. It's still our responsibility to make the good clean shot, and it with a scope it would make it easier to take the clean shot.

[Gissert]

I am against scopes during ML season. Although I shoot a modern in-line, I like the feel of hunting with open sights. I limit myself to 75 yard shots, and have confidence in my gun on standing targets at that range. Hunting without a scope just 'feels' good to me at that time of year.

IMO, a guessing shot with open sights is a poor shot, period. Scopes may or may not help the wounding issue and will possibly encourage some to take shots at ranges where the projectile is rapidly dropping in trajectory. Someone who will attemt a marginal shot with open sights is probably prone to taking marginal shots with scopes as well.

[Mark Christianson]

I would be all for zero power scopes on ML's and/or red dot scopes.

[Maverick41]

Gissert:

If next season they make it legal to use scopes, would you switch over or not? I understand your point of the feeling you get hunting with open sights. I too use a modern inline and wouldn't hunt with anything else. There's always going to be that person who doesn't completely understand the ballistics of their smokepole and take those out of range shots. I feel comfortable about out to 80 yards if I have a good rest and the deer is standing broadside, anything over that and I think it's a prayer with an open sighted muzzleloader. Granted their are some that can kill effectively at 100 yards with open sights, there aren't many. I guess I'm just one who would love to be able to use a scope during season, especially during low light conditions, I'll take anything to give me an edge over a wily old mossy horns.

[Gissert]

Maverick41 -

Good question! It would sure be tempting, but I would probably not scope my ML even if legal during ML season.

BLB's suggestion of Red Dots and/or zero magnification scopes has me leaning a bit, however. I am not for any magnified scopes.

I usually go rifle hunting for elk in Colorado every year, plus I opt for the all season Minnesota deer tag. That is a substantial amount of time to spend with a scoped rifle. By the time ML season rolls around, I just really like the feel of a weapon with nothing on top.

I am a gadget junkie at heart, and should the law allow scopes I will think hard about red dot with quick release mounts so I can leave it at home should the feeling strike me.

Just an aside, a few years ago Colorado banned in line muzzle loaders, and then allowed them again. You cannot use optical sights, pelletized powder or any saboted bullets in Colorado during primitive seasons in Colorado.

[JEV]

I'd be all for zero magnification scopes during the muzzleloader season. I have pretty good vision and even I find it challenging get my open sights on a deer at over a hundred yards. It seems like that front sight covers half the deer. In the brush at close ranges I actually prefer open sights but for those longer shots some type of glass sight would be nice.

JEV

[metrojoe]

I guess I'm missing the point here, but why don't you just carry your muzzleloader during the regular firearm season?

JEV,

I practice out to 100 yards with my muzzleloader, and the front sight covers almost the whole target. I don't think I'd be shooting at deer over 75 yards.

[JEV]

I don't think I'd be comfortable taking a shot over 125 yards with open sights. It's just not in my comfort range. Anything less then 125yards I'm pretty sure I'll put it in the boiler room. Why don't I carry my muzzleloader during regular firearms? Well, for one I can take more then one shot if needed, and two, my range with a centerfire is well beyond that of a muzzleloader. Scope or not on a muzzleloader, it isn't no centerfire.

JEV

[lawdog]

I think we should leave the ML season open sights only. I got a scope for the ML just this past week to use during the gun season and went with Talley quick disconnect rings to mount it so I can take it off for ML season.

One thing about the ML season, I don't really think we want to keep adding so many people to it that the deer get hit harder. They can really be herded up by then, and if you let guys plunk away with scoped smokepoles, we could do some damage. Its tougher to bag one with open sights and that's what we want. It shouldn't be easy to harvest one during the ML season!

[jlm]

I would be against magnification as well. That should be left in the rifle season. On the other hand, if it was legal, I would be using a scope! To me, its would be just like having two rifle seasons. Open sights are much more challenging and there is just something about hunting with open sights thats gets me back into "hunting". We are more limited which makes us rely more on hunting ability rather than shooting ability. Not srue if that makes sense or not but it does to me. Good luck all!

[Bob/Mn]

I would say it would be great to use a scope. I ware bifocals and have a hard time with iron sights.

I hunt with a side lock and inline and limit my killing field to 75 yards.

I bench tested the inline with and without a 4X scope. The group size with the scope decreased by a factor a 6 at 100 yards.

The scope would make for a lot less wounded animals and cleaner kills. As far a taking 200-300 yards shots, I wouldn't do that with a smokless gun let alone a muzzel loader.

[PerchJerker]

I am 100% in favor of using a scope during ML season. Doesn't mean I would for sure, but I probably would and I'd like to have the option to do so. I usually don't use my ML during the regular firearm season just because I have a couple other guns I like hunting with, and wouldn't use them much or at all if I used the ML during the firearms season.

[gorrilla]

A persons still limited to one shot at a time. The gun is capable of killing deer out to 150+ yards why not make it a clean killing ethical weapon. It still is the ballistic equivalent to about a 30/30, which isn't a 250 yard gun like some fools brag about. I don't see the same purists complaining people are using compound bows instead of recurves or releases instead of finger tabs...

[WAG416]

If they legalize scopes, I will use one

If they choose to leave it as it is, no biggie.

I will hunt deer religiously no matter what, maybe even until there are none left to smash in the side of my pickup truck. My co-workers say it was punishment for shooting so many between Sept-Dec 31st. I say the deer was just foolish.

Anything to aid in riding the roadways of these menacing beasts. I now eat venison out of agression rather than the enjoyment of how good it tastes. At times I find my self eating deer meat before it is even cooked, thoroughly. The taste of the blood lets me know it will no longer haunt the roadways me and my family drive everyday. That deer didnt give its life for me to eat, he was trying to make a statement, I believe in a way it was a protest. I may need counseling Sorry.

A little off topic, again, sorry

[blue gill guy]

i think we should be able to have them on the muzzle loader. i think we need to be fair to the animal.

[setterguy]

For those that do wear bi-foculs you can get a special permit to allow you to use a zero power scopr during ML season. A fellow we hunt with down south uses one. I guess I am rather neutral on the subject. The more technology we bring into the sport the more people that will take advantage of the extra season. I guess I kind of like having the woods to my self after Thanksgiving. They would increase the accuracy which is always a good thing when talking about clean kills. On the flip side, with scopes you will always have the guys that will think they can try to lob one in at 200+. I will let the powers that be make these decisions, and abide by them.

[john.wells]

Quote:

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The more technology we bring into the sport the more people that will take advantage of the extra season.

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I may be wrong, but I believe that you can either choose rifle season or muzzleloading season but not both the way the law reads. I used to exclusively hunt black powder season, but now hunt exclusively the rifle season. I have had a couple unsuccesful rifle seasons and wished I could buy a muzzleloader permit. Could I have?

On the topic of scopes, I am absolutely against it. Call me a purist, but I believe that the idea of a black powder season is to pit man versus beast in the traditional Davy Crocket type of way. I know that it was originally instituted in this fashion. I am also against the new in-lines for this season as well. If you know your powder charge and your projectile and keep it consistant and practice your shot, you WILL be deadly accurate without a scope. Some things should just be kept rustic!!!!

[Neiko]

You can hunt both seasons with the all-season license. I believe you can also trade in your unused rifle tag and get a ML. I bought an in-line this year and put a scope on it for the rifle season. I shot a 6 pointer and a doe and there wasn't much trailing with a 295gr .50 cal hitting it. I did plan on using it without the scope for the ML season but things got busy and I had plenty of meat.

[lawdog]

Quote:

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You can hunt both seasons with the all-season license. I believe you can also trade in your unused rifle tag and get a ML.

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You are right about the all-season, but I don't think that's true about the rifle tag that you didn't fill. Maybe before the season starts you could make that trade, but not after its not filled during the season...

[xedge2002]

I would like to be able to use a zero power or Red dot scope for muzzle loading season. I would be ok with using a scope but I think then the season would start to get a lot more hunting pressure.

Also in response to the Licensing question you can buy the allseason tag and hunt archery, slug/rifle and muzzleloader. You get a Buck and anterless tag with the license and can buy additional tags if you are in a management or intensive harvest area. Also if you buy a slug/rifle tag and do not tag a deer you can go in and upgrade your license to the allseason and hunt with a muzzleloader. But you cannot just trade in you slug/rifle license for a ML license. If you bought only the slug/rifle tag and shoot and tag a deer you cannot upgrade to the allseason tag. I had these same questions last year and asked the DNR at the MN state fair booth. Also you can shoot a doe with your anterless tag from your allseason license in a lottery area even if you did not submit your name for the drawing in that area.

[ddsbyday]

In my opinion, no scopes during muzzle loader and no crossbows during archery. Why would we want to extend the free for all of rifle season. If you can not make a clean kill at 30 yards with open sights you do not shoot. You work at getting them in closer. I love the muzzle loader season because you have to work at it. Thats hunting. Don't get me wrong, I spent several hours tracking and dragging a dear in very cold temperatures after nicking a small aspen tree that I didnt even see. I will not make that mistake again. Believe me it is quiet and lonely during black powder season. I enjoy that!

[leadcore]

I am for the use of scopes. There is nothing tradional about our muzzeloaders. Heck, back in the day of flintlock they had make shift scopes. I also dont believe the woods will be crowded if they allow scopes. My opinion thats all.

[lunker651]

I think they should just leave it as it is, No scope. They let us use scope it during the regular firearm season already. I know muzzy can shoot up to 300yds if you know your gun. Not getting to scope your gun just makes it more challenging. You have to plan/ scout everything out and just hopes it all works out.

I hope they banned scopes for hunting, I think when you use scope you are cheating. why, because you can shoot farther than your eyes can see and that is not fair to the animals but that is just my opinion.

BANNED ALL SCOPES FOR HUNTING!!!!

[tripper]

No magnifcation scopes-ok. But here is what I realy think. They should move all inline into reg. rifle season and allow handgun hunting in ml season. Reasons, inlines are as good if not better when you figure in bullet energy then 30/30, 35 rem, 444rem, 32 sp. and such rifles. You want challenge with fire arm hunting then use a fire arm you strap on your hip or carry in a shoulder holster.

[BLACKJACK]

First let me state that I'm not a muzzleloader, I archery and slug hunt, when gun season is over, I go back to archery hunting. My thought is why try to perfect another primative weapon, I'll just try harder with my bow. If it was just about killing another deer, I'd get an inline muzzleloader.

This whole debate sounds like the argument between archers and crossbow guys. So far archers have been able to hold crossbows out of the archery season unless you are handicapped. Looks like the muzzleloader guys lost the battle on the inlines. The important thing is that hunters stick together against the anti-hunters.

From my perspective as and archery hunter, I hope scopes are NOT allowed on muzzleloaders. It will just encourage more muzzleloader hunters and more long shots at deer. That combo will keep the deer more riled up for the late season bow hunting.