Extremely Low Deer Numbers

[Sid]

I'd have to say I've heard less about the rowdy illegal stuff the last handful of years. Don't know if its because there's less deer, or what. No doubt it goes on everywhere though. I've always wondered how many deer are poached in the wooded areas each year. It would seem to be so easy to do it. Does it happen alot?

Not as many people actively drive deer either. I think there are more "city" hunters now, whether they are locals who moved there or just from the city period, and less locals with private patches to make drives, so the deer aren't moved as much as they used to be, at least around our immediate area. The guys who aren't local seem to sit in stands more, which makes sense if you don't own land.

[bigbucks]

I'm sure some poaching happens in "the woods" & you're right it would be fairly easy, but then again what's the fun in that? With the long seasons & liberal tags the only people that would do it are just plain lazy in my eyes. A friend of mine told me not too long ago he thinks a fair number of big bucks may be poached. I have no knowledge of that & certainly hope that's not true, but I don't know. As tempting as it could seem at times, it would never feel right or be worth it. You'd always know you cheated.

[Sid]

Chuck, I just think MN has such a vast spectrum of scenarios when you think of the great north woods vs. the barren farmlands and everything in between. Its hard to address all situations. If you are saying that there are doe only tags around Ottertail, I am unaware, we only shoot bucks. I just know it used to be you could shoot either sex with a doe tag. I guess I agree it is unnecessary in many areas.

[Bushwacker]

Quote:

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Chuck, I just think MN has such a vast spectrum of scenarios when you think of the great north woods vs. the barren farmlands and everything in between. Its hard to address all situations. If you are saying that there are doe only tags around Ottertail, I am unaware, we only shoot bucks. I just know it used to be you could shoot either sex with a doe tag. I guess I agree it is unnecessary in many areas.

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I believe Chuck is referring to the either sex license. In MN that has been available for 2 years, including this one. Up until then, when a person bought a license, it was for a buck. Then, if you wanted the option to shoot a doe, you had to enter a lottery. That is how the MN DNR controlled the whitetail population. I agree that the MN DNR has more than its share of faults, but I think whitetail deer are their best managed species. Now I am not saying "trophy management", but "numbers management". I am of the opinion that if you want to practice trophy management in MN right now, you have to take it upon yourself to pass on buttons and baskets, and just take trophy quality deer. If each hunting party takes it upon themselves, it eventually works. My party hunts on federal land and we have shot at least one buck over 10 points for the past 5 seasons. Before we made a concious effort to do that, the biggest deer we would see were 6 or 8 pointers, but now we go into the woods with a real chance to shoot a trophy caliber deer.

[ortonville]

i was born and raised on a farm out side of ortonville. and have never left. and i can tell you there are not many deer here. you can say what you want but i am in the fields working every day and this year is the least amount of deer i have ever seen grizzald is right on the money. so you can bash him or what ever you want but he is right. you guys are not here to see what goes no day to day. some thing has to be done and i hpoe the dnr does it before it is to late

[Mark Christianson]

Email Lou Cornicelli if you have concerns over your specific area.

[email protected]

He is basically the man in control of our whitetail herd in MN. Nobody better to get the ear of.

I agree that the high level plan works for a lot of MN, but I also agree there are areas that are too "generalized" for the deer herd in those locations.

[Tyler D]

Alright just want to put in my 2 cents, not trying to offend anyone.

I still think the biggest problem is the "if its brown its down" attitude that many hunters still have. I am 20 years old, and this will be my eighth season of hunting, my first deer was a buck, and I have shot nothing but does since.

Now three years ago I would sit behind our house bowhunting,on my best two days in peak rut I counted 14 and 16 different bucks in one day, these were just the ones I could tell were different, no telling how many others there were. I would regularly have days of seeing 5-10 bucks during the rut, including several absolute monsters. Then we got new neighbors, after shooting nine bucks one year, eleven the next, none of which were very nice, mostly one and two year olds.

Now they complain that there are no bucks back there any more, well I wonder where they went. If you want meat, why not shoot a doe, If you want a buck shoot a big buck.

Since the new neighbors moved in I hunt our other land eight miles north, where several neighbors are practicing QDM in the last two days Ive passed up two different eight pointers that were real nice, and a big ten that was real wide, but had short tines and needs one more year, I've been passing up small bucks since I was like 14, I don't see what is so bad about letting young deer grow up.

Dont mean to offend anyone but its just how I feel

[shae1986]

Tyler, I agree with you 100%. Here by Ulen that is also the mentality "brown its down" I am now 19 years old and i Have shot 2 bucks. The first a small 6 pointer when i was 12, my first deer, and to this day i regret shooting him, even though it was my first deer and actually it was ok at the time. My second buck came 3 years later, a large mature 10 pointer. I have passed many bucks in my day from bowhunting through muzzleloader. This year i did it the best way i could think of. I shot a doe with my bow, First bow kill in my 6 years of bow hunting, and now i am out for a large quality deer. Now i am not saying that people who really enjoy the meat not to shoot deer, thats not what i am saying at all, i wish more people would shoot does. I am harvesting four deer this year for sure, 4 does, if that big buck comes by, then it will be five, but if i don't fill that buck tag, oh well, it wont bother me. I have filled my buck tag 2 of six years and that is fine. I know there are more people like Tyler and myself and thats great. And to end i know there are some bucks that have to be harvested because of basket racks and other things and thats fine too, but i still wouldn't mind seeing an antler restriction for deer hunting. Be safe and Good Luck this weekend

Andrew

[Ole #1]

I'm not a trophy hunter, I like venison. If you're a trophy hunter, that's great. There is nothing wrong with being a trophy hunter or having the attitude of "if it's brown, it's down".

[grizzald]

Well I see my post had a lot of reaction to it, but I was right, the deer hunting was terrible. The high hunting pressure and high coyote numbers are really starting to show. Every group I talked to while hunting last weekend all said they were not seeing any deer, especially no does or fawns. One group even came across a coyote den with 14 dead deer carusses in it. I know one thing, I dont really care if there isnt a high bounty on yotes, I'm gonna kill some this winter.

[Mark Christianson]

14 carcasses?????

Skeptical comes to mind.

[Stratosman]

Kinda was thinkin the same thing, must be from CWD..

[buzzsaw]

You sure that wasn't the Big Bad Wolf? Holy be-jesus!! No hunger pangs for that family of of 'Yotes. I've never shot one, do I need a special permit if one gets in my crosshairs?

[Froggy4371]

Buzz-saw if you see one you shoot and shoot and shoot then reload and shoot some more. I help my dad and neighbor in the field by driving in the field over night and I have kept track since 10/12/05 and have seen 26 of them at night. Take them out!!!!!

froggy

[buzzsaw]

I'm on the job Froggy! I see them once in a while by my place in Lakeville....

[Froggy4371]

Good cause they are getting thick and need to be thined out alittle. (ok alot!)

[james_walleye]

I dont know but it seems too me the biggest problem in that area is lack of cover for the deer?? Every other part of southern MN is over run with deer. I hunt SW of rochester in zone 4. Its a lot more wide open than the typical SE MN cover you think of, none of the rolling hills, but enough cover. People cant shoot enough deer here! One thing i have noticed is that in the last 10 years there arent as many mature bucks around. But all you have too know about this general area is how much set aside isnt around any more compared too the past and people building houses in every woodlot around. Thats the reason for the decline in mature deer. Certainly not bowhunters and muzzleloaders. As for total number of deer in the area not enough are getting shot. Im hoping now that people can shoot does even if they have a multi zone deer tag will help. Both in keeping the does in control and reducing the number of young bucks shot. Because there is not doubt if you get a group of people too agree too let those young bucks walk you'll see the difference in 2 years. I've seen it happen. I agree with some above posters, i dont understand personally seeing groups of hunters smacking around young bucks. I mean you can shoot does now with any license you got pretty much. And lets face it, most of MN needs the deer thinned a bit, so theres another benefit of shooting does. I guess i need someone too explain too me the mindset of shooting a buck, just too say you shot a buck. There isnt a person on this site or anywhere else who doesnt want too shoot a "big" buck. Do people not realize that in most cases a 3 1/2 year old deer, especially in southern MN is probably going too be a real quality deer? Do people not realize that letting that 6 point walk that in 2 years its probably going too be at or very near "wall hanger" size. Its just me, but shooting little joe just too say you shot a buck, when a doe will fill your freezer just as nicely?

Being a bowhunter and knowing how hard it can be too get the job done on just a nice doe and knowing there just arent near as many bowhunters as slug hunters i will never believe bowhunters have much of a role in draining an areas deer population. The average success rate alone says that.

[shae1986]

James I couldn't agree with you more, on opener i let a 15 inch spread 8 pointer walk 6 yards from me. I know he wasn't a good enough deer so i shot the doe that he was following instead.

As for you talking about coyote's, there is no need to fear, i will be out in full force this winter with my buddy. I will be sporting the 25-06 and my buddy has his 22-250, we plan on shooting a few this year. So if any of you have real problems with them, send me an email and i will see what we can do.

Good luck this weekend.

Andrew