Kluwe: Vikings assistant is a “bigot,” Frazier and Spielman “cowards”

[Canon Guy]

but one is unemployed becuz of performance and a distraction to the team.

Their punter was one of the worst in the league this year, the special teams were mediocre and the coach is a distraction. Maybe the coach really should be worried.

[Big Dave2]

Kluwe is a washed up punter.

He needs to shut up.

Maybe he should have shut up but I don't know about the "washed up" part. His stats didn't seem to change very much throughout his career.

Maybe he has a point? Maybe he was still a decent punter but he got blacklisted?

[mrklean]

Just because he average stays the same doesn't really mean much. How about punts inside 20, touchbacks, oh yeah and that one thing what was it....don't punt to Devin Hester he had a big problem with that. I'm guessing there is a reason Oakland of all teams didn't want him.

[fishersofmen]

Would you want to work with that freak? Willing to throw anyone under the bus because he doesn't like their opinion about something. All the while he runs around like an immature moron making fun of kids being raped. Not only would I blacklist this scumbag from my workplace but he should be blacklisted from society.

[Canon Guy]

One scumbag down, one to go.

[zepman]

Older guys get dumped every day in the NFL...regardless of production. It's all based on their salary. I don't think you have to point at performance when explaining the release of a player one bit. Just too many other factors go in to a decision like that.

Someone earlier mentioned Winfield...great example of a guy who could definately still play but basically out-priced himself with his years of experience and salary expectations.

I could care less about this whole thing...just wish it/he would go away!!!

[BuckSutherland]

One scumbag down, one to go.

You dont play for the Vikings do you?? If not then there is nobody to fire.

Prifer is an American hero. I think he should be promoted.

[Canon Guy]

Prifer is an American hero. I think he should be promoted.

Why is he a hero?

[Sandmannd]

I've always liked Kluwie and respected his activist roles. He took on a lot to speak up like he did. When this first broke I believed him but at the same time thought it was just locker room banter. It's not like it's a normal 9-5 job. The more I've watched this and listened to him in the last month the more I'm growing tired of it all. He's lost a ton of credibility and is turning into whining. Top that with him mocking child molestation, it's just not good. If you look at his twitter account he really needs to keep his mouth shut.

[FISHINGURU]

Big Dave, once again your stats don't mean nothing. It's kind of like when you claim the Giants didn't have a good D-Line the year they won the Superbowl and try to put up stats to prove it. If your gonna use stats at least try to use the ones that mean something.

Poor little Kluwe, having fun with the guys, ripping on everyone making jokes, then gets fired for being a lousy punter and then tells on everyone for what they said when he was a part of it all. Then when they release the truth about what he says he gets all mad and throws a tantrum and starts telling on more people, what a little girl.

Worse part about Kluwe is when he cut the hole in his pants and went around saying that stuff he actually wanted people to do it to him.

[hnd]

kluwe just proved that with media today, you can't take a stand on anything. because you will more than likely always be proven a hyprocrite. the vikings can outlast this barage of evidence he may have because they have plenty of evidence as well. many of his supporters have already turned on him. he's probably lost quite a bit of equity in becoming some sort of analyst around the sport. he'll be the real loser in all of this.

making fun of gay people is common place in sport lockerrooms across the world. making fun of kid rape? probably not.

[Sandmannd]

You shouldn't be making fun of either. Both were equally out of line, no matter how Kluwie spins it. He says his was fine because he wasn't in position to fire anyone. Since when does that matter or make anything right? Can't have double standards out in the public like this.

[Canon Guy]

making fun of gay people is common place in sport lockerrooms across the world. making fun of kid rape? probably not.

Making fum of kid rape should never be acceptable,plain and simple.

Suggesting gays should be rounded up and killed should never be acceptable, also plain and simple. Apparently it is just fine for some.

[hnd]

Making fum of kid rape should never be acceptable,plain and simple.

Suggesting gays should be rounded up and killed should never be acceptable, also plain and simple. Apparently it is just fine for some.

of course it shouldn't. to be honest, i pretty much don't care at all what goes on in a locker room. these are roided up adrenaline junkies. i can't fathom at all what goes on in a locker room. but we've all made inappropriate jokes that we've possibly regretted. i know i have. some face consequences, some don't. thats life.

[Big Dave2]

Big Dave, once again your stats don't mean nothing. It's kind of like when you claim the Giants didn't have a good D-Line the year they won the Superbowl and try to put up stats to prove it. If your gonna use stats at least try to use the ones that mean something.

All I said was that the stats I found certainly don't indicate a "washed up" player. Feel free to provide different stats to prove that assumption wrong.

[LMITOUT]

Here's a stat to prove that assumption wrong:

Punting jobs held after being cut by Vikings: 0

[hnd]

All I said was that the stats I found certainly don't indicate a "washed up" player. Feel free to provide different stats to prove that assumption wrong.

avg punt yardage is not a real useful stat when evaluating punters to be honest. its helpful but must unemployed past punters still could avg 40+. the real worth of a punter is situational. kluwe out punted the coverage more than most which led to quite a bit more return yardage. when it came to net yardage, he was consistantly poor.

but really, punters become "washed up" after their 2nd contract because the different between them and a rookie cheaper punter is minimal for 60-70% of the field. unless you are really good like Lee or Morstead consistantly.

thats why kluwe hardly has a leg to stand on. expensive punters get cut all the time. he doesn't have the production to back it up and hes a pain in the neck.

[LMITOUT]

expensive punters get cut all the time.

[Big Dave2]

Here's a stat to prove that assumption wrong:

Punting jobs held after being cut by Vikings: 0

If you are blacklisted in the league, how many jobs would you expect to hold?

[Big Dave2]

Quote:

Statistical case against Kluwe doesn’t stack up

Posted by Michael David Smith on July 18, 2014, 9:29 PM EDT

The Chris Kluwe case is about a lot more than football. It’s about homophobia and employment law and the way our society is changing to become more tolerant of gays and less tolerant of those who espouse the types of anti-gay views that have long been commonplace in locker rooms.

But it is at least partially about football, and the part about football is the weakest portion of the memo released by the Vikings on Friday night. That portion is headlined, “Kluwe’s 2012 Statistics vs. Career Statistics,” and it attempts to make a case using statistics that Kluwe was declining as a punter. The attempt fails. Badly.

The statistical case against Kluwe begins like this: “Kluwe’s 12 fair catches in 2012 were the third fewest of his career, nearly 3 fair catches below his pre-2012 season average of 14.7. Also, Kluwe’s longest punt of 2012 – 59 yards – was 4 yards shorter than what he averaged during his first seven seasons in the NFL.”

Those are silly criteria by which to judge a punter. A decline in fair catches could easily be the result of a strategy to kick out of bounds, and judging a punter by his longest punt is downright foolish. Anyone who has even a vague understanding of football strategy understands that a punter’s job isn’t just to kick the ball as far as he can. Kluwe had several punts that could have been longer than 59 yards, except that Kluwe dropped them inside the 20-yard line instead of kicking them into the end zone. For instance, in the same game in which Kluwe booted that 59-yarder (Week One against Jacksonville), he also had a 53-yard punt to the Jaguars’ 12-yard line. If Kluwe had kicked that ball 12 yards farther, it would have been a 65-yard punt, his longest in five years. But it also would have been a worse punt because it would have been a touchback, rather than being dropped inside the 20.

The statistical case also criticizes Kluwe for not having enough punts downed inside the 20 — while conveniently overlooking that Kluwe also had the fewest touchbacks of his career. And the statistical case against Kluwe overlooks the fact that Kluwe punted just 72 times in 2012, his fewest punts in any of the seven seasons in which he played all 16 games. The reason, of course, is that Vikings running back Adrian Peterson had an MVP season in 2012, rushing for 2,097 yards. The Vikings didn’t punt as much as usual because they had a running back churning out first downs. And yet it’s supposed to be Kluwe’s fault that he didn’t get a lot of opportunities to down the ball inside the 20?

There’s no single statistic that can perfectly quantify a punter’s performance, and every punting statistic is affected by things outside the punter’s control like the quality of his coverage units and how often his team punts inside its opponents’ territory. But the best single stat to use for a punter is his net punting average. Kluwe had a career-high 39.7-yard net punting average in his last season with the Vikings. That fact is nowhere to be found in the memo released by the Vikings.

None of this is to say Kluwe wasn’t cut for his performance. You can make a strong case that Jeff Locke, the punter drafted by the Vikings to replace Kluwe in 2013, is a better punter than Kluwe. And he’s unquestionably a cheaper punter than Kluwe; he made $405,000 last year while Kluwe was slated to make $1.4 million. It’s entirely possible that the Vikings are telling the truth when they say they cut Kluwe solely for football reasons.

But the statistical case against Kluwe is weak. If that was the best that the writers of the memo could come up with, they should have left it out.

[Canon Guy]

Quote:

Statistical case against Kluwe doesn’t stack up

It’s about homophobia and employment law

Yep, at least in part.

[PurpleFloyd]

Older guys get dumped every day in the NFL...regardless of production. It's all based on their salary. I don't think you have to point at performance when explaining the release of a player one bit. Just too many other factors go in to a decision like that.

Someone earlier mentioned Winfield...great example of a guy who could definately still play but basically out-priced himself with his years of experience and salary expectations.

I could care less about this whole thing...just wish it/he would go away!!!

This^^^^

[hnd]

Statistical case against Kluwe doesn’t stack up

Posted by Michael David Smith on July 18, 2014, 9:29 PM EDT

The Chris Kluwe case is about a lot more than football. It’s about homophobia and employment law and the way our society is changing to become more tolerant of gays and less tolerant of those who espouse the types of anti-gay views that have long been commonplace in locker rooms.

But it is at least partially about football, and the part about football is the weakest portion of the memo released by the Vikings on Friday night. That portion is headlined, “Kluwe’s 2012 Statistics vs. Career Statistics,” and it attempts to make a case using statistics that Kluwe was declining as a punter. The attempt fails. Badly.

The statistical case against Kluwe begins like this: “Kluwe’s 12 fair catches in 2012 were the third fewest of his career, nearly 3 fair catches below his pre-2012 season average of 14.7. Also, Kluwe’s longest punt of 2012 – 59 yards – was 4 yards shorter than what he averaged during his first seven seasons in the NFL.”

Those are silly criteria by which to judge a punter. A decline in fair catches could easily be the result of a strategy to kick out of bounds, and judging a punter by his longest punt is downright foolish. Anyone who has even a vague understanding of football strategy understands that a punter’s job isn’t just to kick the ball as far as he can. Kluwe had several punts that could have been longer than 59 yards, except that Kluwe dropped them inside the 20-yard line instead of kicking them into the end zone. For instance, in the same game in which Kluwe booted that 59-yarder (Week One against Jacksonville), he also had a 53-yard punt to the Jaguars’ 12-yard line. If Kluwe had kicked that ball 12 yards farther, it would have been a 65-yard punt, his longest in five years. But it also would have been a worse punt because it would have been a touchback, rather than being dropped inside the 20.

The statistical case also criticizes Kluwe for not having enough punts downed inside the 20 — while conveniently overlooking that Kluwe also had the fewest touchbacks of his career. And the statistical case against Kluwe overlooks the fact that Kluwe punted just 72 times in 2012, his fewest punts in any of the seven seasons in which he played all 16 games. The reason, of course, is that Vikings running back Adrian Peterson had an MVP season in 2012, rushing for 2,097 yards. The Vikings didn’t punt as much as usual because they had a running back churning out first downs. And yet it’s supposed to be Kluwe’s fault that he didn’t get a lot of opportunities to down the ball inside the 20?

There’s no single statistic that can perfectly quantify a punter’s performance, and every punting statistic is affected by things outside the punter’s control like the quality of his coverage units and how often his team punts inside its opponents’ territory. But the best single stat to use for a punter is his net punting average. Kluwe had a career-high 39.7-yard net punting average in his last season with the Vikings. That fact is nowhere to be found in the memo released by the Vikings.

None of this is to say Kluwe wasn’t cut for his performance. You can make a strong case that Jeff Locke, the punter drafted by the Vikings to replace Kluwe in 2013, is a better punter than Kluwe. And he’s unquestionably a cheaper punter than Kluwe; he made $405,000 last year while Kluwe was slated to make $1.4 million. It’s entirely possible that the Vikings are telling the truth when they say they cut Kluwe solely for football reasons.

But the statistical case against Kluwe is weak. If that was the best that the writers of the memo could come up with, they should have left it out.

that was pure speculation and awful. Kluwe has never led in any category and has always jsut been a middle of the road punter. add in his replacement is just flat out better and cheaper. this guys' defense of kluwe's statistics is what is weak.

the reality is you can point to punters BETTER than kluwe getting dropped for younger counterparts ALL THE TIME. ones that aren't loudmouths. of course his activism also had something to do with it but he'll be hard pressed to prove its the sole reason like he's saying.

[LMITOUT]

If you are blacklisted in the league, how many jobs would you expect to hold?

I guess he should have thought of that consequence a few years earlier instead of crying about it now.

[CaptainMusky]

He obviously was thinking about the rammifications of saying something since he didn't say anything until he was released.