Lowering our Low Expectations

[Z7EXTERME]

My question is its an opportunity to actually tag a deer in mn. You have the right to purchase a license and go out and attempt to tag a white tail. Why doea everyone get so bent out of shape I hunt with a bow and firearms and a muzzle loader. I can shoot just as many deer with all three license as some one with a fire arms license just have a long time frame to fill my tags. Go buy a muzzle loader or a bow no one is stoping you from doing that. So quit blaming it on the people who enjoying being out there and hunting.

The past 3 years during firearms season has almost ruined deer hunting. Because everyone doesn't respect the outdoors they think I paid 31 dollars for a tag I need to shoot a deer by tresspasing shooting from the truck ect. Its unbelievable how many cry babies there are. Just like my grandpa taught me if you want something work your a$$ off to get it not wine or pay somebody money to get your way. People are ruining hunt with these [PoorWordUsage] poor attitude s.

[TruthWalleyes]

Why do some of you consistently have to keep throwing little pot shots at anyone that is for seeing bigger racks? Every post by a couple of you has some snide remark in it about antlers, APR, or trophy hunting. I just don't get it. Keep driving that wedge boys, all you are doing is adding fuel to the fire.

If what i said was a 'pot shot' you sure are sensitive.

[PurpleFloyd]

Why do some of you consistently have to keep throwing little pot shots at anyone that is for seeing bigger racks? Every post by a couple of you has some snide remark in it about antlers, APR, or trophy hunting. I just don't get it. Keep driving that wedge boys, all you are doing is adding fuel to the fire.

Not sure how that is any different than a guy posting a picture of harvested deer and having the APR crowd butt in and proclaim how the deer were too small, not mature, massacre etc etc etc. But I agree that we should be celebrating all those who achieve their own personal success and will try to be more tactful in the future as long as it is reciprocated. Heck, we should be accepting each others preferences and defending the right to hunt no matter what our standards are and focus on protecting our right to hunt from those who want to take it from us.

[picksbigwagon]

How many hunters bought tags this year, for all kinds of deer hunting (yes I realize there are multiple licenses for people how muzzie, bow and firearm hunt)? How does that stack up to other states? i.e. we have over twice as many as Iowa does, what about the rest of the big deer hunting states? Does Illinois have more than us? They definitely have more people than us.....

As far as the comments, I agree, both sides are guilty of it and it just keeps this topic going around and around. How many more years do we have to keep beating the dead horse? I am tired of it, but I know if I lock a topic, a new one pops up within 15 minutes and the conversation goes the same......

Population density (both deer, deer hunter, and non deer hunter) and land structure/carrying capacity, have a greater impact on deer "quality" than anything else that is ever mentioned.

[Wanderer]

they go to church more too. donate to charity more. swear less.

Hmmm.... I'd guess the Amish have me beat on all those fronts!

By the way Truth, I'm happy for you if you're happy with the trade. Personally, I wouldn't have given up the pheasants.

[TruthWalleyes]

By the way Truth, I'm happy for you if you're happy with the trade. Personally, I wouldn't have given up the pheasants.

I knew the guy who wanted the antlers had an abundance of pheasant from SD guide trips. I haven't pheasant hunted in a few years. Antlers were going to get tossed with the hide.

In my eyes, i got Way more than something for nothing. One's trash another's treasure.

[leech~~]

Huuum, I got a ton of deer head gear sitting in the Garage. How do I sign up for this pheasant SD guide trip deal?

[TruthWalleyes]

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[sticknstring]

Is that one of those rare melanistic albino deer? I've seen it all now.

[skee0025]

I know a few grain farmers in both SE Iowa and SE Minnesota who will tell you in all seriousness the deer herd should literally be wiped out due to the damage they cause to corn crops.

There are more than enough people willing to help them out, but the farmers either want your first born or are completely unwilling to allow people on their land. The help is there, if they refuse or make unrealistic demands so be it, let the deer feast!

[HunterLee]

APR is not all about big racks, its about management of deer. Quality and quanitity is not that hard to do. It would take a year or two but Mn can get to decent numbers in all areas along with good age structure.

Shoot does in areas that need it and lay off the in the ones areas that are down.

The biggest thing the dnr needs to do is "know" how many deer are in areas. All the western states have it figured out and only allow certain numbers of deer to be harvested in certain areas.

I know they do their flyovers in late winter, but how can you figure a population when all the deer in say 10-20 sq mile area are mostly in one deer yard. If they hit all of those or miss some of them areas there numbers will be way off.

We already have zones so why can't they allow x amount of bucks and y amount of does shot?

Limiting the harvest in each permit area would help both areas of concern. There is no way to determine the pressure that each area has.

As of right now, everyone in MN could hunt one zone if they wanted to, now what would that do to the size structure and population?

I go on one or two trips outside of MN every year and even on public land I see decent populations and decent age structure.

Its not possible for every hunter in MN to kill a deer every year and if they did we would have none left.

[HunterLee]

That also makes me think, when was deer hunter numbers lowest? I would venture to guess the 1980's due to seeing some of the monster racks my great grandpa had, and he/they were far from horn hunters and thats just what happen to come by. All 4 sets of his and 3-4 that another realitive has score well over 170 and all came from the late 80's as well as other random racks hanging in the older generation homes that I have seen.

[PurpleFloyd]

I don't know about your area but around here in the 80's there were probably 5x the hunters that there are now in this zone.From the reports of shots fired and hunters seen in the woods I can't see how there are more hunters today than in the past but I suppose some pockets probably are getting more pressure. Especially if word gets out that there is a big buck or two in the area. Word like that will bring in flocks of hunters looking to cash in on the rack.

I would be very very careful about proposing that we start to limit the numbers of licenses the state gives out while also increasing antler size unless you are either an outfitter, someone who makes a living off of supplying outfitters or a land owner trying to tailor your land to cash in on an outfitter locking up your property. I hear too many stories already on here about guys having people move in on their public stands, ruining their hunt by getting too close etc. It will not get any better with more big racks running around unless of course you are in the crowd that wants to reduce the number of hunters that can buy a license and if that is really your goal then I guess I will have to disagree with that idea.

[blue_healer_guy]

Everybodys expectations are what you make it in my mind. I go into every season looking for that "wow" buck. Never have seen one. I'm ok with that, sooner or later it might happen. My kids shoot the deer for our meat. They like the harvest part, the camp, etc. But what I can say is we are resposible for what we have. I"m talking more on the line of when your in a 1 deer zone, you know the same groups that hunt around you for years and you hear shots Saturday, Sunday, Monday, Tuesday etc from the same areas, wheres the problem. I would guess the actual harvest is higher by 15%.

[Jameson]

That also makes me think, when was deer hunter numbers lowest?....

Link to the hunter data tables from 1918-2008: https://app.box.com/shared/yce8comnsq

There was a dip in hunter numbers during the '70's, so maybe those racks came from the mid '80's when those bucks would have been 5-6 years old?????

[Wanderer]

Drop the hide in a donation box if you still have it.

[Jameson]

....It will not get any better with more big racks running around unless of course you are in the crowd that wants to reduce the number of hunters that can buy a license and if that is really your goal then I guess I will have to disagree with that idea.

While I am not in the crowd that wants to, I am in the crowd that is willing to, and my goal isn't to reduce the number of hunters that can buy a hunting license. I want to not have any limits or seasons, but understand that it isn't 1492 anymore and we need to have adequate regulations for the times.

I guess I am not in the conversation though, as I am not in the crowd that wants to. They must be some of the few, too.

[HunterLee]

I don't think there is a need to limit the numbers of hunters, but limit pressure to reduce the kill.

I have looked on the DNR HSOforum to just see the increase of hunters up until now.

The biggest thing I see is that muzzleloading hunters was a pretty consistant number at 10,000 give or take, but now the last 5 years its around 60,000 hunters, but the harvest is roughly the same at roughly 7500, they didn't break down what they killed.

That in itself is alot of pressure deer don't need after getting blasted at during the regular season.

Archery has up ticked a little the last few years but the harvest is only slightly up.

Regular season is a little more difficult to look at but the only consistant chart I found was 1989 thru now with anywhere from just over 400,000 total license in 1989 and stayed under 500,000 until 2000. From 2002 until now its been from 540,000 to 645,000 total licenses granted it was the "glory" years of shooting does but we are now feeling it.

It always made me cringe during that time when people were shooting all those does, because a fair amount of them were "nub" bucks. That's even worse than shooting forks and such as the nubs were even more of an easy target.

With habitat loss and with more hunters than ever its going to take some type of management or deer and deer hunting will continue to fade. But then the worse it gets the less people will hunt. Its a cycle and for now we are on a downward trend in my eyes outside with a glimmer of hope in the APR zone.

[PurpleFloyd]

While I am not in the crowd that wants to, I am in the crowd that is willing to, and my goal isn't to reduce the number of hunters that can buy a hunting license. I want to not have any limits or seasons, but understand that it isn't 1492 anymore and we need to have adequate regulations for the times.

I guess I am not in the conversation though, as I am not in the crowd that wants to. They must be some of the few, too.

My guess is if you ask every hunter if they would be OK with rationing licenses if it meant they may go a year or two without being able to hunt much less harvest a deer even the APR guys would be few and far between to check the yes box.

[PurpleFloyd]

I don't think there is a need to limit the numbers of hunters, but limit pressure to reduce the kill.

I have looked on the DNR HSOforum to just see the increase of hunters up until now.

The biggest thing I see is that muzzleloading hunters was a pretty consistant number at 10,000 give or take, but now the last 5 years its around 60,000 hunters, but the harvest is roughly the same at roughly 7500, they didn't break down what they killed.

That in itself is alot of pressure deer don't need after getting blasted at during the regular season.

Archery has up ticked a little the last few years but the harvest is only slightly up.

Regular season is a little more difficult to look at but the only consistant chart I found was 1989 thru now with anywhere from just over 400,000 total license in 1989 and stayed under 500,000 until 2000. From 2002 until now its been from 540,000 to 645,000 total licenses granted it was the "glory" years of shooting does but we are now feeling it.

It always made me cringe during that time when people were shooting all those does, because a fair amount of them were "nub" bucks. That's even worse than shooting forks and such as the nubs were even more of an easy target.

With habitat loss and with more hunters than ever its going to take some type of management or deer and deer hunting will continue to fade. But then the worse it gets the less people will hunt. Its a cycle and for now we are on a downward trend in my eyes outside with a glimmer of hope in the APR zone.

Supply and demand will work. If the number of hunters increases and the supply of deer decreases then the hunters numbers will fall back as their odds of harvesting a deer drop.A good example is the pheasant boom in the mid 90's. When the population exploded for a few year we all of a sudden had a surge in hunters coming here from all over the state and especially the metro to fill their bags because you could go out and get a limit in a few hours. Then a few bad winters and springs and the population crashed and now it is rare to see a shiny new twin cities Suburban decked out in Cabelas gear driving around looking for a place to hunt. they don't want to work that hard for a limit.

Deer hunting is much the same. When word gets out that there is a trophy buck in a particular area, especially public land, there is a surge of hunters all trying to put him on the wall. If you want lower pressure, having more big deer around isn't going to do it in a state with lots of public land unless you implement quotas. If you want lots of big deer and no DNR quotas then get on board with selling the public land and putting it in private hands and then be prepared to open your wallet. Wide.

[JIvers]

Its a cycle and for now we are on a downward trend in my eyes outside with a glimmer of hope in the APR zone.

I just want to add that there is no shortage of deer in Zone 3.

Whatever else else may or may not need to be tweaked in the southeast corner of the state, the overall deer numbers there are fine.

[Wanderer]

I wish that were still the case on the properties we hunt in SEMN.

I just talked to landowners and other hunters again last night and had a little light shed on another population decline factor. Through the archery season I've been really surprised at our way lower than average deer sightings after opening weekend plus the overall lack of fresh sign. Originally I've been thinking the drawn out winter and high coyote population could be the culprits, not just the lull of activity we usually see in October. The overall population has been trending significantly downward for the past several seasons to boot.

Come to find out there is a landowner of a smallish piece of property who has been holding LARGE group, A season hunts on his land but also flooding the surrounding state land that's wedged in between the private parcels. This area is one of the most travelled deer corridors on the properties as it bridges the gap between the most prime feeding and bedding areas. They've been absolutely POUNDING the deer for the past few years. That info had credibility in my eyes as I recalled my last still hunt through the state parcel and saw lots of gut piles laying about and no deer.

It's really unfortunate how that extreme pressure appears to have ruined a once prolific deer area.

[HunterLee]

Thats my point, the SE corner has it all, good numbers and decent age structure. But they have been managing the deer in that area before APR to some extent and thats why they have deer.

Private land owners can manage their own land to some extent the perham area is a good example I forget what they call themselves but they have a big group of dedicated landowners and let them grow and shot does.

Public areas get hammered both by people and by shooting whatever they see. A little guidence would go a along ways

[BLACKJACK]

On the way into work this morning I was watching the sky get lighter to the east and was wishing I was in a deer stand!!! Love that anticipation as it gets light, is that blob over there a deer?? And then seeing a nice sunrise.

Just thought I'd throw out a positive post!!!

[PropsterII]

To each his own, but it slays me how some people want to keep the size of the deer and the age structure of the herd down so that we don't get any further interest in hunting them. What have we come to.