Manziel Debate

[IceHawk]

Heck of a game last night kid defiantely has talent! I will predict this with a season like he has had and last nights game no way he falls to 8 for us.

[LMITOUT]

LOL, why are so many of the posts [Re: DrJuice1980] even though DrJuice is nowhere to be found?

I was wondering about that also and noticed that it was happening in other threads too where it would show a reply to the OP even though it wasn't.

[grizrunner]

Manziel is most likely 5'-11 7/8" and 200 lb soaking wet. Does it really matter? If he was 6'-1 and 210 he's the same guy.

Some of you think he's a punk and will never transition to the NFL. I'm on the other side. He's in college...give him a break. He's having the time of his life on a huge stage. He'll have plenty of time to make it business.

Do I want him in MN? Given the competition, at #8, he11 yes.

[BuckSutherland]

Panzel will be an NFL flop. What happens when he doesn't have Luke Joeckel and Matthews blocking for him, and first round recievers catching the ball for him??

He isnt going to get the time to throw in the NFL, especially behind the Vikings line. The NFL guys are going to be targeting him right away just so they can show what a little weasel he is. He constantly runs the ball around with one hand, and he is slow in his progression. Yes he is accurate, but with what I saw last night he will be dead before he pulls his arm back.

What did it take to knock RG3 out?? Was it 14 games?? It will be less for little Johnny.

[greebs]

Panzel will be an NFL flop. What happens when he doesn't have Luke Joeckel and Matthews blocking for him, and first round recievers catching the ball for him??

He isnt going to get the time to throw in the NFL, especially behind the Vikings line. The NFL guys are going to be targeting him right away just so they can show what a little weasel he is. He constantly runs the ball around with one hand, and he is slow in his progression. Yes he is accurate, but with what I saw last night he will be dead before he pulls his arm back.

What did it take to knock RG3 out?? Was it 14 games?? It will be less for little Johnny.

He wouldn't last long behind the vikes line that is for sure.

[creepworm]

He wouldn't last long behind the vikes line that is for sure.

That is for sure. His ability to make down field throws while at a dead sprint will certainly lead to an injury shortened NFL career.

[FISHINGURU]

DrJuice is busy making his draft board, so far the first 10 picks he has listed as LB's.

[Big Dave2]

Panzel will be an NFL flop. What happens when he doesn't have Luke Joeckel and Matthews blocking for him, and first round recievers catching the ball for him??

He isnt going to get the time to throw in the NFL, especially behind the Vikings line. The NFL guys are going to be targeting him right away just so they can show what a little weasel he is. He constantly runs the ball around with one hand, and he is slow in his progression. Yes he is accurate, but with what I saw last night he will be dead before he pulls his arm back.

What did it take to knock RG3 out?? Was it 14 games?? It will be less for little Johnny.

Would you rather have THIS guy?

[MontanaMax]

You guys are looking at this all wrong. If the Vikings draft him he will flop. If some other team drafts him, he will succeed. The cause and effect starts with this ownership and management team. And there's the ever present team curse....

[natertater83]

he is a good college qb, like tebow but he is not NFL material. I guess we will find out next year with him going into the draft. he is a good athlete but once he starts the faster game and getting hit by j.j. watts type guys, he wont last long.

[96trigger]

I would love to see Johnny Football in Minnesota. He might be a bust, but at least the kids has some fire and some ballz. He might actually be able to take command of a huddle. A quarterbacks coach at the NFL can work with him to get rid of some of his habits. I think no matter where he goes, he will be successful in the NFL. I hope it's in Minnesota.

[greebs]

not that tony dungy is the be all end all, but just heard him on espn say that he doesnt think johnny has the body type to have a long nfl career.

[DrJuice1980]

DrJuice is busy making his draft board, so far the first 10 picks he has listed as LB's.

LBs are the most versatile players on the field...

I must say though Id WAY rather take JM than Bridgewater. How is Teddy rated so high?

I have yet to see Manziel at his workout so I can not predict where I think he'll go.

[Stcloudangler]

not that tony dungy is the be all end all, but just heard him on espn say that he doesnt think johnny has the body type to have a long nfl career.

He's 21. I think he can put on a few pounds yet.

[Big Dave2]

He's 21. I think he can put on a few pounds yet.

Good Luck. I have been trying to make these thick skulls understand that Manziel is only a 21 year old college Sophomore for months now with no luck.

[Slabasaurus]

Good Luck. I have been trying to make these thick skulls understand that Manziel is only a 21 year old college Sophomore for months now with no luck.

Yeah but you've been touting his height, not his weight. Much easier for a 21 year old to put on pounds than grow a few inches feet.

[Big Dave2]

Just listen to Skip.........

Quote:

Kingsbury continued in a "trust me" tone. "The ball just jumps out of his hand. … His hand is so big it just engulfs yours. It really helps that he can wrap his hand all the way around the ball. … There's nothing 'little' about him. He's put together [and listed at 200 pounds]."

Kingsbury had his own experience to draw on when coaching Manziel.

Manziel also wears Size 15 shoes, and several sources tell me he's still growing and is now closer to 6-foot-1.

Quote:

Johnny Pro Football

Originally Published: May 2, 2013

By Skip Bayless | ESPN.com

Very large hands are just two of the reasons Texas A&M's Johnny Manziel is such a dynamic and promising NFL QB prospect.

I spent the last month trying to talk myself into Geno Smith, Matt Barkley, EJ Manuel and any of the other can't-miss quarterbacks in this draft crop. I finally agreed with Hall of Fame QB and Denver executive vice president John Elway, who said he was glad he didn't need a quarterback this year.

Next year will be very different.

Next year, if Johnny Manziel enters the draft after three years at Texas A&M, as he almost certainly will, some lucky team picking at or near the top will get the rookie equivalent of Robert Griffin III.

Yes, I'm already ready to go out on this limb faster than Johnny Football gets to end zones: He'll be a National Football League STAR. Everything about this kid is RARE. We're talking Michael Vick meets Doug Flutie meets Fran Tarkenton meets Brett Favre meets Drew Brees -- with a sometimes dangerous dose of Broadway Joe Namath thrown in off the field.

This kid will lead the league in total yards and splash.

Crazy talk? I've been pretty good at evaluating quarterbacks over the years -- more on that in a moment. I'm just listening to my eyes.

My TV screen did not lie when Manziel took apart Nick Saban's Alabama defense in Tuscaloosa or when he embarrassed my Oklahoma Sooners in the Cotton Bowl. Think about this: In America's toughest conference, the SEC, 19-year-old first-year starter Manziel shattered Cam Newton's single-season total offense record IN TWO FEWER GAMES, then merely became the first freshman to win the Heisman Trophy.

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I'll also be the first to predict that, before next year's draft, some bad team picking high -- some think-inside-the-box outfit -- will try talking itself OUT of Manziel. Too short. Too uncoachable. Too much of Bad Brett Favre, a gamblin' scrambler. Too Flutie and not enough mighty-armed Elway.

For very different reasons, Johnny Football will become the most polarizing draftee since another college legend, Tim Tebow, went 25th in the first round to Denver (before Elway took over).

Over the phone from Lubbock, new Texas Tech coach Kliff Kingsbury couldn't resist gigging me. Last year, Kingsbury served as Manziel's coordinator at Texas A&M. Kingsbury dryly said: "Skip, Johnny's better than Tebow."

I said

Without hesitation,: "I agree. Way better."

I've been known as Tebow's biggest (and sometimes only) media supporter. Yet all I said before Tebow's draft was that I would take him late in the first round because he can win games as a starting quarterback in the NFL. Did he ever, when given the opportunity in his second season in Denver.

Manziel can be THE reason an NFL team wins Super Bowls. He is wildly athletic -- as fast as he is quick -- with a lightning release and a deadly accurate arm capable of picking you apart or burning you deep.

I could almost hear Kingsbury's eyes roll when I asked about Manziel's doubters. As Texas Tech's QB, Kingsbury set 17 NCAA passing records before he was drafted in the sixth round by New England and bounced around three other NFL teams. "I've seen my share of arms," he said. "I have never seen anything like this."

Kingsbury continued in a "trust me" tone. "The ball just jumps out of his hand. … His hand is so big it just engulfs yours. It really helps that he can wrap his hand all the way around the ball. … There's nothing 'little' about him. He's put together [and listed at 200 pounds]."

Kingsbury had his own experience to draw on when coaching Manziel.

Manziel also wears Size 15 shoes, and several sources tell me he's still growing and is now closer to 6-foot-1.

Kingsbury continued: "He just has that aura when he walks on the field. He just knows he's the best player, even at Alabama. … He's just so football instinctive that he can extend plays and keep you guessing then hit you with a 50-yard strike or outrun you 80 to the end zone. ... He made three throws late at Alabama that were as good as I've seen."

Including the game-breaker, a beautifully arced corner route over Dee Milliner, the cornerback the Jets took ninth overall to replace Darrelle Revis. "Most fearless player I've ever been around," Kingsbury said.

I mentioned that when Manziel bolts into secondaries he often makes defenders miss as if he's a punt returner. Kingsbury stunned me by comparing Manziel with the player I thought was the best in this draft, Tavon Austin, who went eighth to St. Louis. "Lot of similarities to the 300 yards Tavon Austin had against Oklahoma," Kingsbury said of Austin's 344 yards on 21 carries. Manziel went for 229 yards on 17 carries and added 287 yards passing for a Cotton Bowl record 516 total yards.

And remember, Manziel isn't befuddling college defenses with a read-option scheme. Kingsbury said A&M ran no more than 10 option plays all season.

Do I think Manziel is as fast as a young Vick? Not quite, but take it from Heisman winner Flutie, who spent time around Manziel at the Heisman ceremony and has studied his game as an NBC analyst: "Johnny can split defensive backs the way Vick did. Just that one cut between two guys and he's gone. ... Johnny has my quickness, but he's much faster than I was downfield. ... But Johnny's like Fran Tarkenton was. He understands the advantage of scrambling behind the line to restart the play. ... He throws the deep ball very well."

Can he stay healthy in the NFL? "I think Johnny won't get as banged up [as other running QBs]," Flutie said. "Robert [Griffin III] is more long and lanky. Johnny's just so elusive, and at his size, he'll be smart enough to get down."

Will Manziel be coachable? "We put a ton on our quarterbacks, and by the sixth or seventh game, he was really good, checking us into the right plays," Kingsbury said. "But a couple of times against Arkansas [453 yards passing and three touchdowns and 104 yards running and another TD] he came off after scoring a touchdown and said, 'My bad' [because he had broken the play]. I just shrugged and high-fived him and said, 'It's all good.'"

Can Manziel be an NFL star? Flutie, who was a spectacular scrambler and made a Pro Bowl in 1998, said: "Absolutely. Of course, I'm for the little guys. Breezy [brees] isn't quite 6 feet."

Flutie's concern: "A kid with his athleticism can get lazy."

Yes, a 20-year-old playing in the SEC could feel like he doesn't have much left to prove. He could get careless, as Manziel sometimes has off the field. That's why it's too bad NFL rules prevented Manziel from being in last week's draft. He is made far more for pro than college football.

[+] EnlargeDoug Flutie

Dick Raphael/USA TODAY Sports

Flutie is in a unique position to evaluate Manziel's pro potential.

He hasn't exactly comported himself the way a Heisman winner is expected to. "You start hoping he'd clean it up a little," Flutie said.

Manziel is taking courses online because, he says, he's often mobbed on campus. Manziel has played fast and loose on Twitter, posting pictures of his winnings at a casino and partying with his buddies or with his model girlfriend. In interviews, Manziel handles himself like a 30-year-old. In truth, said Kingsbury, "He's just a kid trying to figure all this out."

The most troubling incident happened before Johnny Football became nationally famous. On June 29, in the wee hours, Manziel and a close friend were leaving a College Station bar when the friend called a passing black man a racial slur, according to a police officer's written statement and reported by Sports Illustrated. The black man came after Manziel's friend. Manziel intervened and tried to calm the man down by saying his friend hadn't meant what he said. The man swung at Manziel, who hit back. Manziel was arrested and found to have two fake IDs. The officer said Manziel appeared to be so intoxicated he couldn't answer questions.

If NFL teams shy away from Manziel because of any issue raised by this incident, that will be understandable. But any team that passes on him based strictly on football evaluation will make a monumental mistake.

On "First Take" over the years, I've predicted before the draft that RG III will prove to be better than Luck, that Blaine Gabbert and Christian Ponder will always frustrate their fans, that Sam Bradford was being way overdrafted and overpaid, that I wasn't sold on Mark Sanchez but that Josh Freeman was a steal at 17th overall (in 2009), that JaMarcus Russell would be a huge mistake at No. 1 overall (in 2007) and Brady Quinn (also 2007) was just a backup and that Vince Young and Jay Cutler would be much better than Matt Leinart.

I missed on Russell Wilson, but apparently Seattle, and the other 31 NFL teams, weren't quite sure, either; he wasn't taken until the 75th overall pick, in the third round. But Wilson's stunning success, at about 5-11 and 206 pounds, certainly helped blaze the trail for Manziel.

Still, as Kingsbury and Flutie stressed, the team that drafts Manziel must completely buy into what he does. Young was offensive rookie of the year, made two Pro Bowls and went 31-19 as a starter in spite of Jeff Fisher, who wasn't completely on board with drafting him third overall.

"What Mike Shanahan did for RG III was masterful," Kingsbury said. "You have to build an offense around Johnny. You can't force a square peg in a round hole."

Then again, maybe it won't matter what offense a team tries to make Manziel run.

Before we hung up, Kingsbury repeated: "Never seen anything like this."

[CaptainMusky]

Puhleeze Skip Bayless!?

You have seriously gone to great lengths Big Dave, but this is by far the most reaching you have done.

You do realize that Bayless was also all up on Tebow's jock. Where is he now?

[DrJuice1980]

Bromance

[Nick Kuhn]

This play epitomizes why I don't want him in a Vikings uniform. In the NFL this play is either a huge loss or an interception with a long return. Know what other QB likes to run around behind the line and heave the ball where it doesn't belong? Christian Ponder.

[fishersofmen]

Mel Kiper just compared Manziel to Fran Tarkenton and said he would be a perfect fit for the Vikings. I don't think he will make it to #8 at this point.

[FISHINGURU]

Hard to say what happens between now and the then, wait until the combine to see the #'s and character issue reports.

I remember last year at this time everyone was saying the 2014 draft was gonna be the best QB draft of all time, now everyone is saying there are not any good ones lol.

[BuckSutherland]

ITS OFFICIAL!!!

THE LITTLE BOY IS COMING TO PLAY IN THE NFL!!!

Hope he has stocked up on insurance policies.

[Big Dave2]

This play epitomizes why I don't want him in a Vikings uniform. In the NFL this play is either a huge loss or an interception with a long return. Know what other QB likes to run around behind the line and heave the ball where it doesn't belong? Christian Ponder.

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[CaptainMusky]

ITS OFFICIAL!!!

THE LITTLE BOY IS COMING TO PLAY IN THE NFL!!!

Hope he has stocked up on insurance policies.

but he's only 21 and still growing. He has big hands and big feet so that equates to a good NFL qb right?