lack of bigger bucks??

[96trigger]

I agree with you truth, I process my own venny, it is one of my favorite parts. I like all aspects of the hunt, processing included.

[Gordie]

There will never be big enough bucks/antlers for some hunters.. More, More, Bigger, Bigger is what they only look for. That's why they have created High fence hunting and yet that is not big enough for them either.

They tend to forget about the hunt and the outdoors and focus on bigger better!

[Wanderer]

Yup, for some, that IS true but not for most. Most are happy just to see and to know there are just plain old mature deer around.

[B. Amish]

i'd say the long wet cold spring caused antler growth to be delayed and thus many bucks are looking smaller in the rack.

whereas in 2012, it was pretty much the exact opposite and many bucks grew great racks.

[Musky Buck]

I agree Amish, Gordie this 2014 deer hunting can't hold a whatever to the bucks of the 80's. They were in all sizes and some to me then were scary in size and it wasn't like they were simple to get, you usually didn't, here and there you would, you just didn't have enough time, 2 days was it or 4 the second weekend. Then the survivors grew to their potential and the big buck contests back then in our area the 3 years I knew the weight of the biggest it was 272 dressed, 268 dressed, and 259 dressed. This was held in Bluffton, MN for reference and the 272 and 268 were taken in back to back years by the same guy. There were dozens of 200+ pounders weighed in those days because they got older, I don't think I should feel too bad for wanting some larger bucks around to hunt, heck most of those sections that produced large bucks back then don't have a 200 pounder in em anymore because of mass pressure and opportunity, they've been scaled back year after year and why should I have to do a canned hunt to see something nice. We call our deer of today bumper bambies.

[laker1]

No bucks on camera but seen some trees with bucks rubbing.

[PurpleFloyd]

I agree Amish, Gordie this 2014 deer hunting can't hold a whatever to the bucks of the 80's. They were in all sizes and some to me then were scary in size and it wasn't like they were simple to get, you usually didn't, here and there you would, you just didn't have enough time, 2 days was it or 4 the second weekend. Then the survivors grew to their potential and the big buck contests back then in our area the 3 years I knew the weight of the biggest it was 272 dressed, 268 dressed, and 259 dressed. This was held in Bluffton, MN for reference and the 272 and 268 were taken in back to back years by the same guy. There were dozens of 200+ pounders weighed in those days because they got older, I don't think I should feel too bad for wanting some larger bucks around to hunt, heck most of those sections that produced large bucks back then don't have a 200 pounder in em anymore because of mass pressure and opportunity, they've been scaled back year after year and why should I have to do a canned hunt to see something nice. We call our deer of today bumper bambies.

All that before anyone heard of APR or QDM and when brown and down were standard procedure.Funny thing is there were several times more hunters in the 80's in this area than there is now. Opening morning used to sound like a war zone every single year but now there is only a few shots here and there. Since the creation of the muzzle loader season and the longer season here we are seeing much less pressure and we are seeing more bucks and as big or bigger and that is a direct result of fewer hunters being in the area.

[Coach1310]

Just out of curiosity, Purple, what area are you in? You don't hear the "less hunting pressure" in a lot of places, so I was curious.

I honestly think that one big factor that rarely gets talked about is the huge loss of marginal land that has been turned into crop land. That marginal land provided cover 365 days per year, now the crop fields provide it for about 3 months. That land may have been just pasture, set aside, CRP, you name it. It has also led to the isolation of cover.... instead of a 120 acre solid tract of habitat, it is now 5- 10 acre clumps of woods/brush/swamp whatever surrounded by crops...not near the security of the big tracts. I believe that lack of cover has played a role in deer feeling more pressure in certain areas. Secondly, our technology has made our hunting more successful..... high powered, more accurate rifles with big fancy scopes vs. the iron sight 30-30..... decked out compound bows with huge draw weights and let offs vs. old recurves.... trail cameras vs. the limited mail/milk man and farmer sightings of big bucks... I am not saying any of these are bad things, just things that have contributed in my opinion to the feeling of more pressure on deer(I am not convinced the pressure is more overall, but in certain areas it is for sure).

[tfran123]

Perhaps in your area, "yes" there is less pressure. For the most part you've got loss of habitat and more pressure put on deer, period. Much fewer large tracts providing cover deer need to escape.

Musky Buck is right, many local contests have much smaller deer now and weight can be a decent gauge.

Funny how you constantly take the other side ignoring observations/facts even when they are obvious.

[Scott K]

Another problem is every small patch of woods, has a house in it now. I use to hunt in the 80's and 90's, we have great years, and some terrible years. Just like now. We use to do a lot more drives, because there was a lot more small area one could drive with 6-10 people. Now, all them spots are either a field, or it has a house in it. I still see as many big deer as I use to, some years more, some years less.

Last year my hunting land that I hunted in since I was 12, which is 30 years ago, got taken over by city limits, and I can no longer hunt there. This area was loaded with deer, and many big ones as well. Now it is un huntable now.

[Spike76]

What do you expect? Lots of hunters only wanting to shoot big deer. Maybe we need A.P.R.s so you can't shoot any deer with 4 or more points on one side. I'm against any regulation to limit size of the game, based on what some want and not what is best for the overall deer population. Stop shooting the big deer if you want to see more big deer.

[Abndoc]

Or if you shoot only big deer...little deer have a chance to become big...but shooting little deer...well they never have the chance

[Jameson]

With all the change in the last thirty plus years, putting more hunting pressure on less area every year, it only makes sense that the deer heard dynamics change, too.

[Coach1310]

I enjoy all the time I spend afield. I am more and more disappointed the more sportsmen I talk to when it comes to deer management. Why does everyone feel the need to make sure everyone knows their way is the right one? I shoot a deer most years...sometimes a buck... Sometimes a doe... Sometimes on family farmland....sometimes the big public woods. I just truly enjoy the time. If I am not happy with what I am seeing I move to another spot. All of my areas have changed over the years. I guess I either accept it or try a new spot. Trying to place blame or talking in circles about how much better it was years ago and how some believe it sucks now just doesn't make sense to me. I would love to see more big bucks but not at the expense of someone else's experience... I am going to keep hunting either way.

[darkpassenger13]

Or if you shoot only big deer...little deer have a chance to become big...but shooting little deer...well they never have the chance

I couldn't agree more... I'm not exactly pro APR but I will not shoot a buck that is not mature. But at the same time I believe any hunter be able to shoot any buck that would make him or her happy. I cut my teeth shooting anything that had horns and just because my standards have changed doesn't mean everybody else's has to as well.

There are three bucks that I have been watching for three plus years and it seems as if all three have not added much, if any, bone growth this year. I have been wondering if the late spring has had anything to do with it, and I think that this thread answers that question.

[PurpleFloyd]

Or if you shoot only big deer...little deer have a chance to become big...but shooting little deer...well they never have the chance

That only works under the assumption that all small deer are shot. If only a percentage of small deer are shot and all the big ones are left alone, then the age structure would trend up. If everyone only shot old deer and the same harvest rate was maintained the average age would trend down.

[PurpleFloyd]

Perhaps in your area, "yes" there is less pressure. For the most part you've got loss of habitat and more pressure put on deer, period. Much fewer large tracts providing cover deer need to escape.

Musky Buck is right, many local contests have much smaller deer now and weight can be a decent gauge.

Funny how you constantly take the other side ignoring observations/facts even when they are obvious.

The facts I stated are the same as I have been saying which is you cannot implement statewide legislation and expect to have it work the way you want everywhere. Yes, you are right- Habitat changes, pressure changes and weather events have an impact on the herd as well and what works well in one area is by no means proof that it will work everywhere else.

[Chris St. Peter]

Totally agree with the observations of Lung deflator. I'm also in the Bemidji region and normal years, Even given the mass slaughter of yearling bucks that this region is renowned for, I have a minimum of two nice bucks in my territory. This year I have seen zero...nothing on my cameras, nothing during late summer velvet scouting. Hopefully the big ones show up for the rut.

[SmellEsox]

"That only works under the assumption that all small deer are shot. If only a percentage of small deer are shot and all the big ones are left alone, then the age structure would trend up. If everyone only shot old deer and the same harvest rate was maintained the average age would trend down."

Your logic is off. The only way the average age of bucks will increase is if you protect the young ones. The percentage now that make it to maturity are few and far between. So allowing the young bucks to live will increase the average age of bucks out there. The reason we want big bucks is to shoot them, not just to look at them. They will be renewed every year if young bucks are allowed to survive.

[Musky Buck]

Remember my experiences are in old zone 4, the farmland, with such a long season it makes sense there are less decent bucks around then in the hay day and does too. When there were 5 tags also with 9 days of gun hunting we haven't recovered from that yet. There is also a pretty big % of bowhunters that were never out also and no 1 muzzleloaded really. Party hunting allows everyone the full 9 days of rifle hunting if you can get out that much. The pressure is heavy. Hunt smarter is what I need to do more of like last year moving my stand 4 times before I found his hideout. I have to figure all the pressure around my areas will mean they are hiding tight in my areas and likely bedded before shooting light so last light deep in there is maybe a better chance than years ago when it was an AM thing. Got 25 days to get it together lol.

[CodyDawg]

I have hunted my area for over 30 years and had trail cams out for the last 8 or so. This is the worst I have ever seen. Highly anecdotal on my part and we did have a farming change, but nobody has seen a nice one yet and the bucks on the trail cam have tiny racks for our area. We dont shoot little bucks either. We got 1 nice 9 last year is all, so there should be a few left.....

[lungdeflator]

Wow this really got out of control. The past week, the buck activity has picked up here in west-central ND. More 2.5+ buck pics in the past week than I got all summer. Like some have said, they are still around.

I got an email from Bill Winke the other day saying hunters are having the same troubles getting pics and eyes on "bigger" bucks this year.

BTW check out the weekly shows on Midwest Whitetail. Some great information on there. You can also email Bill from the site and get a good response.

[fr0sty]

He mentioned the same thing on this weeks midwest whitetail episode.

I got an email from Bill Winke the other day saying hunters are having the same troubles getting pics and eyes on "bigger" bucks this year.

BTW check out the weekly shows on Midwest Whitetail. Some great information on there. You can also email Bill from the site and get a good response.

[picksbigwagon]

Bill Winke is having a hard time in Allamakee county seeing deer? I highly doubt that, of course i think he still has the HS 110m High hurdle record. lord knows I couldn't come close to his time........

[laker1]

I think the next two weeks will tell you a lot. I agree also the big bucks are not showing up,but also not seeing the big tracks like last year.

Wait two weeks than panic.