Your thoughts on training a hunting dog yourself

[TylerS]

I thought about this on another thread, mainly because it seems to be a similar theme with various people I talk to: if you've never actually done it before, what are your thoughts on personally training a dog to hunt? There's no wrong answer, I'm just curious.

I'll expand a bit on my views. For starters, I was once a guy who'd never trained a dog. When I got my first hunting dog, I immediately began researching professional trainers. It was my natural instinct, because I thought dog training was altogether too difficult, too expensive, and too time consuming. Basically, something impossible for the average guy to do.

But then I met up with the local NAVHDA group. They showed me that, in fact, dog training could be done yourself. I started with basic stuff, then gradually increased training difficulty as both my dog and I progressed. We worked hard and, with all the support, were able to do very well testing. I also have an excellent hunting dog who I would put up against anyone's. He makes me very happy, and I'm proud of what we were able to accomplish.

I guess, if you're on the fence about training a dog, what's holding you up? Time? Money? Access to training grounds? Just a mentor to show you the way? I'm curious to hear some dialogue.

Our local NAVHDA chapter has a core of very dedicated individuals, but we struggle to bring in new members. I think a lot of folks view it as something completely unobtainable. I thought that way, too. I never, ever believed I would be able to train a dog to any level of competence, let alone test it successfully. If I, of all people, can do it, I know others can, too.

[rundrave]

if you've never actually done it before, what are your thoughts on personally training a dog to hunt?

My thoughts are don't be afraid jump in its a blast. Once you catch the bug its hard to stop.

I am more of a DIY guy when it comes to anything so I jumped into dog training with the same mentality that I have with just about anything. I didn't want to spend $$$ or pay someone else to do it and I was looking forward to the challenge, opportunities and rewards that come with it.

I think first an foremost the key step to before you even consider what training option you decide to go you need to research breeders etc. and do some homework on a litter. Having a dog with good natural ability and pedigree with a good track record will make the process so much easier.

There are lots of resources, books, videos and clubs as mentioned. The hardest thing isn't having the skill to do it, its a big time commitment which probably makes it hard for people to do it themselves thus the need for a trainer.

I find lots of short sessions frequently has worked for me, just doing short sessions in the morning or evening instead of long drawn out training has yielded great results. Working that in to a daily routine is what I did and now its just an everyday thing.

[leech~~]

What kind of Dog? What kind of training? Point-Flush?

[TylerS]

What kind of Dog? What kind of training? Point-Flush?

[setterguy]

Instead of time, I would call it resources and priorities for me. When I was younger I had all the time in the world to drive to New Prague and pick up pigeons, take care of the pigeons, drive an hour and train a few times a week almost all summer. It was great and I had a blast doing it.

Now, I have a career, two kids, a wife, two dogs, a boat that doesn't get used and a list of things to do around the house a mile long. While I know I COULD train my dogs myself its much more efficient for me to pay someone else to do the things I'm looking to have done. The most valuable thing I have now is time.

I'm lucky in the fact that most pointers don't need a lot of "training" as much as they do direction. Some of that I can do around the house. I do all my own obedience but my access to land, birds, and a place to fire a gun aren't readily available.

[JONOV]

Speaking as someone who grew up with retrievers, but not hunting dogs, I would agree that there is no reason someone CAN'T train their own dog. I have a number of friends that have done it to varying degrees of success. Training a dog isn't rocket surgery. When my family picked up a used 6 year old intact alpha male Golden Retriever, whose only training was being housebroken, My mom whipped him into shape in short order (many commands, "jobs" to keep him occupied, etc) and she might have read one book about training years ago, but I'm not even sure on that.

All that being said, If i had a dog, I wouldn't want to screw up the training and be left with a best friend/family member that had real shortcomings in the field. So with my first dog, I will certainly be looking real hard at a professional trainer.

[TylerS]

All that being said, If i had a dog, I wouldn't want to screw up the training and be left with a best friend/family member that had real shortcomings in the field. So with my first dog, I will certainly be looking real hard at a professional trainer.

That was my initial fear, too; that I'd "screw up a dog" and be stuck with the results.

But the more I do this, the more I feel like that's pretty tough to do. I mean, that's not to say it doesn't happen, but you can definitely fix training issues if they're caught soon enough. That's where training with a group of people helps. You pick up on what other people are doing. It's like when I write a story and don't see the mistake in the first sentence: Sometimes you need a fresh set of eyes to see those things.

So yes, if you are a complete rookie and have no access to someone with training knowledge or are fearful of training a dog incorrectly, then it might be a good idea to get a professional trainer to do the work. But in that case, you're still not really learning anything. You wind up with a trained hunting dog, but do you glean enough from that process to be able to do it successfully on the next dog?

I think that's where the real beauty of training dogs comes in. True, the first time can be difficult. But you learn and grow right along with the dog. And even if that first dog isn't 100 percent perfect, the next one will be better.

Something to consider.

[gspman]

If you have the time, someone to ask questions when you are stuck or screw up, and the drive to see it all the way through to it's end then training a dog on your own is a great idea.

[Eric Wettschreck]

Interesting topic.

I'll take a swing at things in a different direction. In my lifetime I've had plenty of dogs and not one of them was trained by a pro. None of them would ever become some type of ribbon winning field champion but most of them did real well in the duck slough and prairie grass.

Here's my opinion, most dogs already know how to hunt. It's in their blood. So, what are we really training them to do? We're training them to hunt the way WE want them to. Don't get too far out, don't jump out of the boat until commanded, come when I call you, heel, bring the bird to me not drop it 20 feet away from me, etc. From this perspective (my opinion only) we're not really teaching a dog to hunt, we're teaching them to do what we tell them to do, all the time, every time..............and hopefully it works.

Time is the biggie. Jobs, family, fixing cars and houses can slow a training process down. 15 minutes here, 20 minutes there and KEEP IT FUN for the dog. I've seen dogs that want to stick their head up their hind end when they see a shock collar and I've seen dogs so happy to see the collar they almost wet themselves. Keep it fun, short sessions, and lots of atta boys is what worked for me.

Again, I'm no pro. I've always thought the lab already knows how to retrieve and the shorthairs have a nose like no tomorrow and hunting for them is natural. I'm not teaching them to hunt, I'm teaching them to obey me.

[Ufatz]

Some basic simple truths in that post. You do not have to be a genius to train a reasonable intelligent dog. But you DO have to take the time and even a couple short sessions a day will yield a dog that is obedient and willing to hunt. The dog has the tools....you simply guide thier use. Someone totally new to hunting dogs probably should get a book or a video to learn at least ome basics. Then go a step at a time, building each week.....learn one command and then next time out practice that one and add another simple one.

Have had many dogs. They have always accomplished anything I wanted from them. Most of them have learned quickly. Repetition is THE tool you need most. You might be surprised.

Speaking of which: Nine month old Abby is a Black Tornado but she is scary smart. Yesterday I sitting on deck looking out at lake. Abby saunters down lawn to the dock, all on her own initiative. She walks out on dock, looks around, then backs up six feet and hauls silly-me down the dock and up and out eight feet in the air and into the water!! She does that a couple times and then trots back up into the yard and lays in the sun. Figure that one out!!?

[Todd Caswell]

I think with all of the info out there today mainly videos at least for the retriever breeds anyone "should" be able to train a fairly compotent dog for the duck blind or uplands. Were all good dog trainers until a problem comes up and thats were experience comes into play when you have 100 dogs under your belt those problems are fixed before any lasting damage to the dog is done. Where we retriever Amatures have the most problem when training at the advanced level is lack of quality tech. water. Without daily or even weekly access to good water like pictured below it's pretty tough to advance a dog without the help of a pro, in my mind the winter trip is the best bang for your buck..

[Ray Esboldt]

Where is that one, Todd. That would be dream to have that one in the backyard. I could find lots of ways to work out bugs there.

[Todd Caswell]

Where is that one, Todd. That would be dream to have that one in the backyard. I could find lots of ways to work out bugs there.

That's part of the West Central MN retriever clubs water, located in Morris MN. Pretty nice it is dug in a old gravel pit.

[GSP4EVER]

I trained my own shorthair or as someone else said, "gave direction to". My GSP was my first hunting dog I trained. I read books and watched videos and read up about the breed before I even got the pup. He is my first shorthair too. When people ask me how hard it was to train, I tell them that he already knew what to do, I just had to fine tune it. I enjoyed every minute. I feel me and my dog have a stronger bond and we got to learn together. I did screw up when it came to gun fire. Like someone else said, I don't really have a place to fire a gun so I have to take him to a range. The first time we were alone and I had a friend shooting trap and we worked closer to the point where he started to chase the clays. The next time we arrived at the range to find people already shooting and it made him gun shy. I sent him to a trainer. 2 weeks and $400 wasted the trainer tells me to come get him and he is a lost cause. That fall took him hunting anyway. When ever a bird got up I just shot in the air with a 12 gauge. I took about 15 birds before he got the idea. Now he don't care about the gun shots while hunting. If I try to do some training and he hears a shot he will bolt to the truck. With that being said, the fear of screwing up was my biggest fear when I decided to train my own dog. But I didn't let it stop me and now I corrected (somewhat) my mistake and have a good hunting buddy.

[Ufatz]

Ya know, if you are really concerned about the shyness around guns you can go all the way back to "basic training" with your pal and I'll bet you can get him to the point where he'll totally ignore it. Fella gave me a little dog years ago that was a mess, couple years old. Didn't take many months of TLC and that rascal became a duck fetchin' little black tornado.

Patience is the main ingredient as far as I'm concerned. But I'm not a pro.

[herm]

Here comes 2 cents from a true amateur. Indeed, I got my first hunting dog just 3 years ago and have trained her largely myself by following some top authors and a few sessions with a pro trainer. Admittedly, everyone here has more experience. That said, I think the FIRST question the owner has to answer is super basic: What is your expectation of the dog when training is complete? Personally, I just wanted a dog who could obey basic commands and help me find birds...and retrieve the occasional poor sole I actually hit. In looking into training, I did visit local retriever club and, no offense intended, quickly found the members I talked to had much higher expectations. In fact, I felt a few looked down on me when I explained what I envisioned. I never went back there. My research also quickly showed my training goals did not match with folks who found enjoyment in competing with dogs, getting rankings, ribbons, etc. Thus, I began the DIY approach using expert books as guidance. As mentioned, finding the time was tough, but the bond formed was well worth it. Also, when I had a problem or faced a critical stage (ex: introducing guns and live birds) I went to a pro trainer for a few hours of individual help. That was the best money I spent because he and I both knew the outcome I wanted. As we enter season four, I feel the dog is everything I wanted and more. And that's why I say the most important thing to answer is: What do you want the dog to be trained to do? Your answer will dictate whether you should do it yourself, get pro help or have a pro do it all.

[Todd Caswell]

Here comes 2 cents from a true amateur. Indeed, I got my first hunting dog just 3 years ago and have trained her largely myself by following some top authors and a few sessions with a pro trainer. Admittedly, everyone here has more experience. That said, I think the FIRST question the owner has to answer is super basic: What is your expectation of the dog when training is complete? Personally, I just wanted a dog who could obey basic commands and help me find birds...and retrieve the occasional poor sole I actually hit. In looking into training, I did visit local retriever club and, no offense intended, quickly found the members I talked to had much higher expectations. In fact, I felt a few looked down on me when I explained what I envisioned. I never went back there. My research also quickly showed my training goals did not match with folks who found enjoyment in competing with dogs, getting rankings, ribbons, etc. Thus, I began the DIY approach using expert books as guidance. As mentioned, finding the time was tough, but the bond formed was well worth it. Also, when I had a problem or faced a critical stage (ex: introducing guns and live birds) I went to a pro trainer for a few hours of individual help. That was the best money I spent because he and I both knew the outcome I wanted. As we enter season four, I feel the dog is everything I wanted and more. And that's why I say the most important thing to answer is: What do you want the dog to be trained to do? Your answer will dictate whether you should do it yourself, get pro help or have a pro do it all.

Too bad you didn't give the club a second look, if nothing else than being a member and use of those grounds, if you live in sauk rapids and have a hunting dog that you are training you are crazy not to take atvantage of the water, I'm an active member there and have been known to load the dogs up after work drive an hour and a 15 run a couple water blinds with each dog and turn around and drive home.. Would love to have that in my back yard..

[Ray Esboldt]

I was once amongst the ranks that pooed the idea of a training club. Now that I am part of one, I would never do it another way. I will admit that I have caught the test bug (some days I wish I had not - frustrations of handler failure). However, I have gathered more sound and practical advice applicable to teaching my dog how to hunt the way I want it to then I could have ever gathered from other resources(short of sending her away). About half the guys in our club do not regularly test their dogs and some not at all. It's really about shaping a dog that you can live with by willingly forcing yourself to work with a dog in a hunting environment regularly. I recommend it to everyone I know that is looking to take on a hunting dog project. You will have a dog that steadily improves over a lifetime instead of one that improves greatly for the first year and only improves in small increments from there.

[harvey lee]

Once in my life I wanted a great bird dog. I knew I would not take the time to train it correctly so I purchased a English Pointer with gooe breeding and took it to a professional trainer.

Yes, it was a few bucks for the training as he had it for 2+ months but boy, was I happy with the outcome.

Do I believe I could have done the job the prof did? No.

[tybo]

My 2 dogs are the first dogs of any kind I have ever owned. They are English Setters and I have trained both of them myself. I haven't trained flushers or retrievers so I can't speak about them, just pointy dogs. I initially had the same fears about screwing up the dog but really wanted to do it myself if I could. I read books, videos, magazines, etc. I talked with pro trainers in case I felt I was failing at it. While I am not very good I have bought dogs with great instincts which makes up for my poor training skills. I think I have a fairly sound philosophy which has been helpful. I tell people that training is awesome and very rewarding to do yourself. I also have tell them it isn't overly complicated but it does require a commitment and that the most difficult part of that commitment is the time element.

I have tried to explain that the actually training sessions aren't long but the entire process around training is time consuming. As an example the act of planting a few birds and working the dog on them doesn't take long. However driving to and from your training area, the act of finding birds, getting them, caring for them, etc. is very time consuming. I try to stress this to people but it's something that you have to experience before you really understand it.

[BLACKJACK]

Tyler, it seems like your question is more "why don't more guys join our NAVHDA group and learn more about dog training?"

Lots of guys train their own dogs but don't want to make the time commitment to run them in trials. Years ago I took a couple of my pups to run in puppy trials and it doesn't take long to realize that there is a lot more to it than just having your wife throw a few dummies and sending them on the retrieve. To make sure your dog doesn't make you look like a fool takes a lot of time. And if the local club isn't close, thats more time to drive to a training session.

Going thru all the steps to run in trials DOES make a good hunting dog but I know for myself my standards aren't that high, I just need a dog thats stays in control, flushes a pheasant, and retrieves them.

If you did a survey, I bet that less than 10% of the hunting dogs get sent off to trainers. This HSOforum is going to draw in more of the - can't think of a better term - yuppie hunters that have the money and don't think they have the time to train a puppy.

Personally, even though at this point in life I have the money, I'd never consider a trainer. I enjoy the pups, like watching them develop, like watching them learn, enjoy the challenge. I'm on my fifth lab and sooner or later a training situation will come up where you need to step back and think it thru. Or come to a HSOforum like this and get some advice Plus I'm raising my hunting buddy, I'm not going to send them off to sit in a kennel for 23 hours of the day for three months, just so they swim a straight line to get the bird vrs taking the easy way around the edge of the pond to get the bird.

[Todd Caswell]

Tyler, it seems like your question is more "why don't more guys join our NAVHDA group and learn more about dog training?"

Lots of guys train their own dogs but don't want to make the time commitment to run them in trials. Years ago I took a couple of my pups to run in puppy trials and it doesn't take long to realize that there is a lot more to it than just having your wife throw a few dummies and sending them on the retrieve. To make sure your dog doesn't make you look like a fool takes a lot of time. And if the local club isn't close, thats more time to drive to a training session.

Going thru all the steps to run in trials DOES make a good hunting dog but I know for myself my standards aren't that high, I just need a dog thats stays in control, flushes a pheasant, and retrieves them.

If you did a survey, I bet that less than 10% of the hunting dogs get sent off to trainers. This HSOforum is going to draw in more of the - can't think of a better term - yuppie hunters that have the money and don't think they have the time to train a puppy.

Personally, even though at this point in life I have the money, I'd never consider a trainer. I enjoy the pups, like watching them develop, like watching them learn, enjoy the challenge. I'm on my fifth lab and sooner or later a training situation will come up where you need to step back and think it thru. Or come to a HSOforum like this and get some advice Plus I'm raising my hunting buddy, I'm not going to send them off to sit in a kennel for 23 hours of the day for three months, just so they swim a straight line to get the bird vrs taking the easy way around the edge of the pond to get the bird.

First off Tyler doesn't run Trials he runs Hunt Tests big difference, HT's you are competing against a standard ( Pass/fail) in Field Trails it's dog against dog and there's a winnner. Both are great and have there place.

It's a big time commitment and money commitment to have a really well trained dog, does a well trained dog make a great hunting dog?

Only if they get real life hunting and bird exposure, but they will be great hunters because they have the tools.

Most HT and FT dogs have retrieved more birds befor there 2 years old in training than most gun dogs will in a life time, if you have the time and the passion join a club, get involved and you will have a dog that ANYONE would love to hunt over. There are very few 100% gun dogs that I have hunted with that have never run a test or a trial that I would consider a finished dog, simple because they don't have the tools.

I don't train mine 6 days a week for hunting season I train 6 days a week because I love to train and the dogs love it as much as hunting..

[herm]

+1 to Blackjack! Another factor I should have mentioned: Having a pro train our dog would have meant not only myself, but my kids would have missed out on some good times and important lessons.

OK, pro advoocates, go ahead....take me to task again. (That's sarcasm...sort of.)

[Pherris]

Well I guess I am a "yuppie hunter" which I find a pretty stereotypical comment. Yes I had my dog professionally trained so if that's what it makes me so be it. There may be reasons other why someone may chose that route other then they don't have the time. In my case I made the choice because with my previous dog I paid for a good dog from a good line and thought I could train it myself. I was wrong and made some critical mistakes that ruined the dog from a hunting standpoint and because my wife and I had agreed when I got her that we would only have one dog I ended up with a very nice pet for 12 years. So rather then make the same mistake again I did not want to take any chances. I wanted a pet but also a dog I could spend years hunting with. Some people are good at things that others are not. If one feels the need to make derogatory statements for another's choice that's fine. I am very happy with my dog and assure you she can do more them swim in a straight line to retrieve. I work with her everyday and do not regret my choice in any way.

Good Hunting!

[TylerS]

Couple things:

1) In no way am I bashing people who chose to go with a professional trainer. I would much, much rather see a dog trained in some fashion -- any fashion -- than one that sits around all day in the house and is thrust into a marsh or field with nothing but a couple bumper tosses for retrieves, and some pans bashed together as a feeble gunshot introduction.

2) I didn't pose this thread as a "JOIN NAVHDA" thread. It was for my own education and curiosity. I just want to know what other people think about training dogs. Do they have preconceived notions about dog training? How do they view dog testing/training? Is it, as in one poster's comments, based on past experiences with a dog that sways them one way or another about training the next dog? Etc.

3) As Todd said, I train for hunting and tests, not trials. I do NOT have trial dogs. They would get blown out of the gate in the first round. But if you're looking for a dog that can hunt ducks or geese in the morning, grouse in the afternoon and pheasants in the evening, point steady through wing, shot and fall, then retrieve everything to hand, that's what I have and what I train toward.

4) I absolutely respect everyone's right to have a dog and get it to whatever point they want it. For most folks, a dog that finds birds and brings them somewhere in the vicinity of your outstretched hand is good enough. And that's AWESOME. If your dog does that, it's already better than many "hunting" dogs out there. To be totally honest, if I hunt with someone who has a dog that comes when it's called and can locate a bird, I think that's great. The one, clear distinction I'd like to make is this: For the folks who have the slightest inkling of curiosity about exactly what their dog can do, GO FOR IT. Join a club, any club. Heck, get a group of six guys together with the goal of training your dogs together and do it! Carpool. Buy birds together. Find land to train on. Spend a little time with your pup and train, trial or test it. See what happens. It's fun! You'll learn tons! And it's a great way to pass the offseason until hunting comes again.

Besides, at best you wind up with a titled dog that can hunt the pants off 99 percent of any dogs you'll bump into in the field. At worst, you'll have an untitled dog that can hunt the pants off 99 percent of any dogs you'll bump into in the field.

I do NOT pose any of this in a derogatory manner. We all love dogs and hunting, and that's what matters.