Home Invasion Safety: What shotgun do you prefer?

[WillCFish]

Home Invasion Safety: What shotgun do you prefer?

What is your favorite shotgun and why?

[nsnutter]

I'll have to check the video, but my answer is none. I won't mess with a shotgun in a closed environment (residential). Too bulky and unwieldy and subsequently can be more easily removed forcibly from my person in cqb.

I keep my .45 loaded with 13 rds of 230 gr+p Federal HST when I'm at home with reserve mags readily available.

Can't argue with this expansion!!

[fr0sty]

my dog

[nofishfisherman]

I don't personally keep a gun for protection but from the research I've done some sort of pump action shotgun is one of the better home protection weapons. Basically everyone knows the sound of a pump action shotgun being loaded and if the criminal breaking in knows that sound likely that's all you're going to need. I'd probably look for something that is small and compact that you can handle in a small room. I wouldn't be worried about it being easier to disarm you with that sort of weapon since if the guy is that close you are already it won't matter what you're carrying.

The benefits of some sort of shotgun over hand gun are in the round itself. With a shot gun you don't need to be quite as accurate as with a hand gun due to the shot spread. Most people aren't practiced in taking accurate shots under severe pressure and fear so a wider margin of error is usually a good idea. Its also a safer gun to fire in a home since you don't need to be as worried about where the shot is going after its fired. A miss or a pass through shot with a hand gun or another weapon may send a round through a wall and into another room where a family member may be. When you are pulling the trigger in the home you want to make sure you know that round isn't going to go far and isn't putting your family in danger.

The issue for me with home protection weapons is I have yet to find a satisfactory answer on how to keep the gun accessible but also safe enough for my liking with a family in the house. A loaded weapon of any kind in the house is out of the question especially one that needs to be accessible to me in a moments notice.

[Kettle]

I do not have a loaded gun in my house but I do have ammo close by, I do not own a handgun but I'm sure the wingmaster and buckshot would do. The model 94 30-30 would probably send any clint eastwood fan running

Kettle

[nsnutter]

I'm sorry but I have to disagree with the previous post. Nothing personal, but I find it to be ignorant and ill-informed.

Everyone knows the sound of a 12 ga pump racking a shell in the chamber. Hollywood has portrayed it all too many times. Bad guy enters house, good guy picks up 870 and cha-chak's a shell into the chamber. End of story, right? Wrong.

First off, there should be no reason to leave a defensive firearm unloaded, or on an empty chamber. Most armed conflicts happen literally in the blink of an eye, and chances are high, very high in fact, that you simply won't have time to load a defensive weapon.

Secondly, the very last thing I want to do tactically in a defensive situation, is give the armed intruder any concrete fix on my position. Sure, in a perfect world, an intruder will hear the telltale racking of a pump shotgun and all you'll see is the bottoms of his nikes as he flees in utter terror. Unfortunately, that will rarely be the case. If someone enters your home with malicious intent to use deadly force against you or a loved one, the last thing you want to do is draw attention to yourself. For that same reason many armed civilians utilizing a handgun and separate light source (flashlight) will adopt a one handed shooting stance and hold the flashlight as far away from their body as possible, since return fire is likely to be directed at the source of light.

The notion that "a shotgun is easier to hit a target with than a handgun because of the spread" is an incredibly ignorant, and unfortunately commonly accepted theory. Most armed confrontations in a residential setting will occur in a distance of no more than 25 feet. Anyone who has even a little trigger time behind a scattergun will know that shot will not spread much at all over that distance. Just because there are multiple projectile leaving the barrel of a weapon in no way ensures positive target engagement.

As far as it not penetrating walls etc ... Ill agree to a certain extent. It will penetrate drywall and plywood ... But much less than a single projectile in fmj form. Collateral damage can be reduced greatly by matching the correct loads to your environment. Many premium ammo manufacturers offer "home defense" loads for this very purpose.

As with any other scenario involving the use of a loaded firearm, practice and repetition are key. Keeping up in target shooting as well as incorporating stress/elevated heartbeat, blood pressure, and breathing in your shooting routines can help simulate a stressful situation where deadly force may be required. I would advise any civilian serious about home defense/personal defense to seek training if possible, or at the minimum to visit the shooting range as often as possible to keep muscle memory.

[nsnutter]

Kettle, my response was not to you, it was to nofishfisherman ... If there was any confusion lol.

[nsnutter]

Btw nofishfisherman ... Look into a biometric gun safe. Many companies offer them to cater toward a single handgun all the way up to a full sized safe. You can keep a defensive weapon loaded and accessible to you without having to worry about a family member playing around with it.

[Kettle]

Hey no worries nsnutter, as kind of an off train of thought, I work currently on an ambulance in an urban environment and I would say 95% of violent deaths that occur in a home are stab wounds, not to say many people are not wounded in homes by guns it just seems that people who die of gun shots typically are outdoors. Just my

Kettle

[nofishfisherman]

I will admit that i have little real life knowledge of what weapon works best in close quarters because I haven't had the unfortunate circumstances to try them out. Subsequently all of my shooting is either at the range or out in the field. The fact of the matter is that the best gun is the one you are most comfortable shooting. You'll find experts saying hand gun and experts saying shot gun but everyone will agree that there is no one answer for every situation and for every homeowner.

Even though I do not have the real life experience I have explored the topic for awhile and talked to a number of people and read alot of "expert" opinions as I was considering options for my home. While you will find a number of people on the handgun side the consensus always seems to be that the 12 gauge pump action shotgun is the best option. The reasons cited were for its stopping power, lack of over penetration, and ease of use. Of course everyone will agree that there is no one single weapon that answers the home defense question. A 12 gauge might be perfect for me but perhaps not for everyone. For instance a woman or someone with a small frame may not be comfortable with the recoil of a 12 gauge or even the size of a shot gun in general, in that case a handgun would certainly be a better option.

In either case your best weapon will be some sort of detail instruction in how to handle the chosen weapon in a home defense setting. I got to believe that pulling the trigger in defense of your home and family is much different than pulling the trigger at the range or in the field.

[96trigger]

If I need home defense, I will grab whatever gun I can load the fastest. That would more than likely be any one of my shotguns as I can do it easily in complete darkness and more than likely under durress. I have shot thousands of rounds with those guns, my .357 mag only has had about 10 rounds through it, it would probably be the last gun I should grab.

I had this discussion with my wife once, I bet her I could get out of bed, get a gun and have it loaded in under 30 seconds, took me about 20. She was actually pretty impressed, opening the safe took the longest.

[Ufatz]

Short barreled double .12 guage loaded with #4's. Couple extra rounds taped to butt stock. Nothing to pump. Nothing to get hung up in doorway, curtains, bedding or other household items

Grab it, safe off do your duty. It should not take more than two. And at 10-20 feet it will be very effective!!

[Archerysniper]

I use my 870 with a 18" smooth slug barrel with rifle sites loaded with #4 buck

[eyesonly]

For those of you that have Litte ones how do you balance Saftey with the speed of accesing your weapon in a bad situation. This is a great thread- Thanks.

[LMITOUT]

[Whoaru99]

Guess it depends on the type of home invasion you're considering. If you're sitting eating supper or laying on the couch watching TV and someone kicks your door in, if you don't have the weapon on your person, nay, in your hand. I think the chances of getting it are pretty slim if the perp is really serious about things.

[aanderud]

Nutter, an 18+ inch barrel on a shotgun makes the shooter more accurate and likely to hit its target than any handgun will ever be. It's not the spread of the ammo (though LMIT's video is pretty cool), it's the fact that you're looking down 3x as much barrel.

That's true in any situation, but when you add in the blood pressure, heavy breathing, etc of someone in distress, it's got to make an even bigger difference.

[nsnutter]

I understand the concept of sight radius Brian, but were not talking about long range target engagement. We're talking about 5-18 feet (or less) and less than one second to engage before that distance is closed. Ill take my chances with a weapon I can literally fire from 6" away from my face in a tight closed environment rather than attempting to swing something 40" long in a hallway or staircase. Along the same lines, most people don't have a front and rear sight on their shotgun and will instead rely on pointing with the front bead sight, rendering the longer barrel's accuracy advantage negligible. You will train for cqb with the mantra "front sight squeeze", most home invasions or self defense situations will be merely a point and shoot affair, as that is really all you'll have time for anyways.

The Winchester PDX-1 ammo for shotguns is pretty neat stuff ill admit. For anyone considering a handgun in a home defense situation look into federal premium guard dog ammo. Designed to displace its energy immediately upon hitting something solid which drastically will reduce a pass through shot or a shot through a wall.

Regardless what you use, anything is better than nothing at all ... That being said, if someone breaks into my home, I'm staying in the bedroom with the door shut and yelling to them they can have whatever try want, but to stay out of my room. If they enter my room, I'm under the assumption they are going to cause me great bodily harm and they will be promptly 230 gr heavier.

[aanderud]

You might understand the concept of sight radius, but you neglected to mention it when you were implying that a shotgun was no more accurate than a handgun, that's all. I understand that you were intentionally mentioning shot spread in reference to the post earlier, but you left the impression that shotguns were no more accurate, which is simply not true.

Harder to swing a 40 inch gun? Yes but how much swinging are you going to do? You're backed up against a wall and you're aiming at the door. Someone opens the door, you open fire. It's really that simple.

For the AVERAGE user, a shotgun is a better home defense weapon. For someone trained with their handgun, I can't and won't necessarily say the same. Mostly, it depends on how adept they are at using either weapon, and for the average user who doesn't exactly practice a lot, I'll just say a shotgun is harder to get wrong in a nerve-wracking situation.

[Alagnak]

Besides even getting into this ballistics and close quarters self protection debate I will go with and promote a shotgun for even this one reason alone- EVEN someone who hates guns should have an old pump even with no shells. Think about it- someone enters your home and it's pitch black and quiet. Then you jack the action on a shotgun and say "get the **** out or else". There is NO mistaking what that noise is unless they are SO messed up they are confused. I'm pretty sure that noise alone is going to turn someone around in their tracks and make them throw away their undies later. :-) They can tuck that pistol back in their low hanging pants and go on their way.

That being said- with kids in my house one of those little safes that read my finger prints attached to the night stand next to my bed works pretty good. And there's no pump that fits in there.

[LightningBG]

I'm sorry, but I find this post and the previous by nsn to be ignorant and ill-informed.

See responses below.

I'm sorry but I have to disagree with the previous post. Nothing personal, but I find it to be ignorant and ill-informed.

Everyone knows the sound of a 12 ga pump racking a shell in the chamber. Hollywood has portrayed it all too many times. Bad guy enters house, good guy picks up 870 and cha-chak's a shell into the chamber. End of story, right? Wrong.

Most people breaking into a house aren't looking to duke it out, they are looking for you ipad and laptop.

First off, there should be no reason to leave a defensive firearm unloaded, or on an empty chamber. Most armed conflicts happen literally in the blink of an eye, and chances are high, very high in fact, that you simply won't have time to load a defensive weapon.

The reason would be if you have kids and their friends running around your house. What kind of a conflict happens "in the blink of an eye"? This is home defense we're talking about. In a properly secured residence, wouldn't you "hear" the intruder breaking in? This isn't mission impossible here. Intruders kick in doors and break windows. If you dont have time to load a gun, you either aren't trained enough, or your out of luck no matter what.

Secondly, the very last thing I want to do tactically in a defensive situation, is give the armed intruder any concrete fix on my position. Sure, in a perfect world, an intruder will hear the telltale racking of a pump shotgun and all you'll see is the bottoms of his nikes as he flees in utter terror. Unfortunately, that will rarely be the case. If someone enters your home with malicious intent to use deadly force against you or a loved one, the last thing you want to do is draw attention to yourself. For that same reason many armed civilians utilizing a handgun and separate light source (flashlight) will adopt a one handed shooting stance and hold the flashlight as far away from their body as possible, since return fire is likely to be directed at the source of light.

True, you dont want to give up your position, but if you hear a window shatter and rack a shotgun while the intruder is crawling trough the window, are you really giving up much? "oh, he's upstairs, you know, where most people in a two story house sleep"

The notion that "a shotgun is easier to hit a target with than a handgun because of the spread" is an incredibly ignorant, and unfortunately commonly accepted theory. Most armed confrontations in a residential setting will occur in a distance of no more than 25 feet. Anyone who has even a little trigger time behind a scattergun will know that shot will not spread much at all over that distance. Just because there are multiple projectile leaving the barrel of a weapon in no way ensures positive target engagement.

it IS easier to hit a target with a shotgun. Doesn't mater if the spread is only 4 inches, 4 inches is a lot wider than .45 inches. If you even graze an intruder with a 00buck, that may buy you enough time to get off another more accurate shot, vs just a clean miss with a pistol. If it was easier to shoot with a single projectile, we'd be using them for wingshooting.

As far as it not penetrating walls etc ... Ill agree to a certain extent. It will penetrate drywall and plywood ... But much less than a single projectile in fmj form. Collateral damage can be reduced greatly by matching the correct loads to your environment. Many premium ammo manufacturers offer "home defense" loads for this very purpose.

True

As with any other scenario involving the use of a loaded firearm, practice and repetition are key. Keeping up in target shooting as well as incorporating stress/elevated heartbeat, blood pressure, and breathing in your shooting routines can help simulate a stressful situation where deadly force may be required. I would advise any civilian serious about home defense/personal defense to seek training if possible, or at the minimum to visit the shooting range as often as possible to keep muscle memory.

Stress, elevated heartbeat, blood pressure are all even better reasons to be using a shotgun with 3 points of contact. (2 hands plus 1 shoulder). And yes, training is vital.

A handgun is a compromise. It's what we use when a rifle or shotgun is not available. It is what defends us until we can get to a long gun. A handgun is less powerful and less accurate than any long gun equivalent. There is a reason police have handguns on their hip and a shotgun in the vehicle. A handgun is portable and a long gun is powerful. If a handgun was the best weapon, why have a shotgun? Not for shooting birds I'm guessing. Ask a SWAT guy on a breech team what he'd rather enter with, a 12 gauge or his pistol? As far as using a long gun in tight quarters... why does swat go in with shottys and assault rifles if tight quarters is an issue? Personally, once I had my family secure, if there is someone in my house, I'll wait in 1 room, heavily armed, until the police come. You wont catch me going room to room clearing the house of threats.

[Tom7227]

Well IF I was going to go with a shotgun I probably would use some Winchester AA for loads as it will get done what needs to get done and won't go through half the house.

On the other hand most people would be better off with a can of wasp spray or bear spray. Not lethal, mistakes aren't fatal so less hesitation.

Most discussions like this involve more testosterone than useful information IMO. This one is already there.

[jentz]

Home invasion is so rampant,I would shoot them before they were in the yard!! With anything I could get my cold hands on!No worries,No broken doors or windows.No insurance claims!HALT WHO GOES THERE???

[Kettle]

Most discussions like this involve more testosterone than useful information IMO. This one is already there.

Very True

Kettle

[fishuhalik]

Very true Tom!

However, to argue a point made earlier, BREACHING, or knocking down a door, is done with a shotgun. ENTRY is done with a handgun or submachine gun, which is a compact, barely-bigger-than-a-handgun weapon that shoots handgun ammo, aka mp5, mp7, etc. Unless special circumstances are involved, and other than in Hollywood, would a room get cleared with a full-length AR. So, in a perfect world, I would LOVE to have an mp5 to defend my home. But, since I dont have the $19,000 to purchase one, my xd-m will have to do!