APR's good for hunter recruitment but not for retention?

[Getanet]

I would suspect many of us would be challenged to keep the tradition alive. This was my 23rd year hunting public land (not Zone 3) and my father's 51st year hunting the same state forest. My grandfather hunted it for longer than that. Although it's public land, we have names for nearly every nook and cranny of that forest and feel a certain connection to the land. If for some reason I couldn't hunt there anymore, I don't know if I'd want to find a new "home." Deer hunting has always meant that same forest and I'd feel like a fish out of water hunting some other chunk of public land.

[BRULEDRIFTER]

Welcome to the future of hunting! A very bleak future for the majority!

The horn porn group will push their adgenda across the country and eventually every chunk of land that can possibly produce large racked animals will be bought out, further funneling Joe 6-Pack and his hunting tradition into extremely over-crowded, trashed public sections of land.

Welcome to the Texas/European model of hunting! Only the rich man gets to play!

[monstermoose78]

that is so true drifter! I hate APR! If there was big bucks every where guys would would want it change it to 5 points a side and then 6. Why should someone have change for someone else. If you dont want to shoot a small buck then dont! If some guys wants to shoot a small buck so be it.

[Wanderer]

I can certainly relate to this article. Our deer hunting party has always been @ 12 people...this year 5 showed up...2 went home a day early. We have hunted on this land for the better part of 30+ years. It's farmalnd, hillsides and ravines in the Rushford area.

Over the last 3 years that land has been divided into parcels...sold for staggering amounts...fenced up and posted. We still have a good chunk of land to hunt but our access points have been all but taken away. The climate for us has changed forever with most of this group to never buy a deer liscence again.

The problem is we can't just go "talk" to our neighbors like we used to. Of the 3 parcels that were sold, all have out of state area codes listed on their posted signs.

So yeah, this article hits home for our party pretty well.

As for how does this relate to the recruitment/retention rate...most of the remaining guys hunting are 2nd generation hunters who all have boys and girls either in or entering their teens. I just don't see the 3rd generation keeping up the tradition that has been on this land for the last 30 years.

I'm leaving for this area in a few minutes and agree with zepman's observations 100%.

For those of you who feel like I'm a horn porn, elitist APR snob, that's not really the case. I've been posting in favor of statewide APR if only to avoid overcrowding and overpricing of hunting opportunities in ONE part of our state. In my mind, if you had more quality throughout the whole state, all the money wouldn't be concentrated in one corner of it. We have great deer growing potential right here in east central MN but with the "It's brown it's down" mentality the deer don't grow up.

My good friend and neighbor has a great hunting spot right here in my neighborhood. They shoot everything they see. Back when they first started, 10 and 12 point bucks weren't uncommon to be seen around here. They are now. This group routinely shoots buck fawns and immature antlered deer every year. This year was a spike, 3 pointer and 5 pointer. One year I grabbed all the antlers of 5 bucks they had sawed off and held them all by the bases in one hand. No big deal to me, they're happy. But the point is, I'm leaving to hunt south instead of heading out with them this weekend because I'd like a better chance at an older animal. People travel to better places. Period.

We used to have a collection of farms to hunt in the SE that totaled well over 500 acres we could freely roam when we started hunting the area 20 years ago. We're down to 150 now and that could be off limits to us any given year when the landowner passes. That's the way most of it's going down there. The aging farmers who just wanted deer shot down there and were happy to give access to deer shooters are gradually being replaced by more people buying smaller parcels for big dollars and posting the heck out of it. That and sometimes the farm family has a son who gets hooked on QDM and won't let you even walk the property in the summer any more.

It's here to stay. My hope is that the demand gets spread out.

[BRULEDRIFTER]

Keep it down there! You guys that pushed for the APRs can lay in the bed you made.

[Jameson]

...I've been posting in favor of statewide APR if only to avoid overcrowding and overpricing of hunting opportunities in ONE part of our state. In my mind, if you had more quality throughout the whole state, all the money wouldn't be concentrated in one corner of it. ...

Could be correct, but I don't think so. It's not the in-staters to worry about. It's the out of state folks to worry about. More of them will be able to lease up more of MN with statewide APR's. Without the APR's they don't have the additional incentive to lease here and will look elsewhere for their lease.

[leech~~]

That's the area we Turkey hunt in so I'm more concerned of the land being bought off for that reason, not big Antlers!

One of the things that makes good QDM is culling the inferior rack bucks out so they don't breed. I see all kinds of ratty little one horn or spike racked deer every year. I see no problem with some kid pulling the trigger on their first deer on one of them since they will never develop to anything worth while anyway! Lot's of deer ranches either cull them out themselves or have discount hunts for them to get them out of the gene pool. Why let their meat go to waste in an area they can never be shot in if they will never have the point count!

[psepuncher]

I always heard Canada was the best trophy place to hunt.

not alot of deer but there's some big deer when you see them.

Maybe I'm wrong {I don't think so}

but places that allow baiting do have antler restricions of some kind.

And they produce big antlerd deer every season. I think that might allow more retention.

Seeing what's out in front of you vs it running through the back slough and trying to get a glimps of it. I might need to start food plottin again. Haveing seasonal rentention on deer is the crucial key to herd management.

[james_walleye]

Interesting chatter since I have gained enough permission to hunt in zone 3 that I literally haven't hunted half of it this season. Maybe I'm just lucky. Or maybe I just create my own luck and don't spend my time on an internet forum whining about access and instead put the legwork into gathering access.

Brule I am sleeping in the bed that was made. Or maybe you could say living the dream. No problems putting venison in the freezer. More mature buck sightings than the past. I just gained access for next fall already on a new piece of property that is in area that some people say is "impossible" to gain access. So that's 4 spots in which I can take my son on his first gun hunt next year. Not sure where I will take him first....they are all good spots.

[Musky Buck]

And we can go lease up land in any state also.

[muskiemanAD]

Well said James. The things I have learned from the anti APR crowd over the years is. None of the bucks grow brow tines in the area the hunt almost eliminating the chance at shooting a buck. There are no does around to shoot. All of the land will be sold to outfitters thus eliminating all the land for the average Joe to hunt They are finding small bucks behind every tree left to rot because the hunter shot it with out identifying it first....

[Wanderer]

Yep, James, you're correct; one can still find opportunity if one looks hard enough. It's just getting tougher is all. I'm saying while typing via the Verizon hot spot at the farm. I just came back from one of the other farms I could only bow hunt before.

No deer so far. 2 does seen last night and 3 tonight but no shots taken. Success around here has been low this B season from what I've been told. Going in the camper now - I'm cold. Good night.

[96trigger]

It has been getting harder to gain access to land for years, land was getting leased years ago as well. There are still places to go and hunt. I shot a very nice doe with the muzzle loader today. I am going to sleep very well in my bed tonight.

[john skarie]

I suppose we should carry over these ideas to fishing as well. No walleyes, pike, etc. can be kept if they aren't a trophy. Who cares if someone wants to hunt and fish to eat and enjoy the traditions of them both, it's more important to be able to beat your chest about how big your game and fish are.

JS

[james_walleye]

Ahhhh yes. Another myth about Apr supporters. We don't care about meat and don't know the real meaning of hunting lol. Thanks for the laugh John....I forgot about that one.

This may be hard to comprehend.....but we do actually eat venison and fish.....

[PropsterII]

Yeah John, your analogy holds zero water and you miss the point entirely. Think of it more in terms of muskie fishing, in which I do share your views more closely.

[Spike76]

Minnesota deer hunting is for everyone, not just for hunters who want big bucks. To have a zone with APRs is wrong. If that was the only way to get big bucks, possibly you would have a reasonable reason for them. There are big bucks in Minnesota without the APRs. Don't deprive hunters so you can have what you want. Just like the slot limits that limit the size northerns you can keep, just so there are bigger ones for those who can't catch enough big ones. If a lake or hunting zone needs to be closed for a good reason, other than only to get bigger fish and deer, than close it until the proper goal is met. If the only way you will be happy is shooting a big deer or catching a big fish, I feel sorry for you.

[james_walleye]

I can guaranty one thing spike.....you will be waaaay more pi&&ed off if you have to let a forky walk by then I will be if I don't shoot a big buck. Who's to be felt sorry for here now?? I'll have pepper sticks in my freezer this year one way or another whether that comes from a big buck....or a doe.

[psepuncher]

rut is pretty much over here, fawns are back with the does now.

Since there's a lack of doe population around here, I doubt the bucks will be coming back through. As a matter of fact I know they won't.

The scrapes will get worked again if there were more does that havn't been bred during the first cycle. And I'll be checking them often just for grins.

I hope to see some monsters taken with muzzies soon.

But with the statewide doe harvest being down, I'd gamble

to say there's not going to be enough for a hand count that's going to fill a big buck dream this muzzie season.

If we really hold out for that buck who's score is going to be a record book deer, that may mean waiting years to achieve that goal. For what it means to wait for a mature deer, you just might want to wait about 6 years when bucks achieve maximum antler growth. Not really something I can hang my hat on to pass along for hunter retention.

Shooting more does over 6 years.. times the thousands of hunters over 6 years. The buck harvest was up this year. That gives apr hunters a fresh start all over again. 6 more years ain't to long to wait for the next big buck is it?

[james_walleye]

6 years? Hmmmm....not sure since my cameras are still full of 120-140" bucks....along with the 170" 10 pointer I've been chasing. But again I must just be the lucky one.

[PropsterII]

There's some flawed math, or thinking

[lichen fox]

Everyone, figures they should be able to have a "shot" at a "big" deer every season...look at the record books, look at the dates....you all expect "someone else" to do it for you!

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[jay83196]

Lmao!

[james_walleye]

The best part of this is fox is actually sitting at home laughing because he thinks he really sent out a zinger there.....lol.

[muskiemanAD]

Fox, Don't worry they are not going to put APR up north you can continue to shoot your spikes every year. So worried what is happening in zones where you don't hunt....