Who should the Vikes draft?

[zepman]

Vikes scheme is broke. The cover 2 hasnt really ever worked that well here. Todays NFL you dont need a safety that can take someones head off, its gonna be a penalty and a fine anyway. You need a guy that can get the ball back for the offense. Hopefully Smith can do some of that.

+1.

It is broke and I wish they'd scrap that whole scheme and philosophy.

[Jarrod32]

The problem is like it or not the vikings scheme doesn't allow a safety to be a ball hawk.

Yeah, nor does it call for a speed/cover guy like Robinson. I sense a scheme change coming for the defense...

[FISHINGURU]

I wish they ran the 3-4, Cover 2 blows goats.

I hope some of these new kids bring in some excitement to the team, our team has been beyond lame lately. We need someone on D to make some big hits and make some nice int's.

Ponders got some protection now and some new targets on offense, it should be interesting to see which players make an impact. I like all the new fresh faces we'll have out there. I'd rather not be that good but trying new things then not that good doing the same thing over and over with old fogeys.

Pretty much everyone gave the Vikings an A for their draft. Like every year that doesn't mean much though. Teams can get a C grade and end up doing stellar while a team that got an A ends up with a lousy draft.

[goblueM]

So which do you prefer? No Cover 2, or you just don't like the 43? Because 34 and 43 are for the most part independent of the coverage scheme employed by a team

[zepman]

The cover 2 has to go.

[nofishfisherman]

Going to a 3-4 has nothing to do with the cover 2. Besides why would you go to a 3-4 when that would basically take your only stud defender out of what he does best.

[Big Tom]

Day 2-3 Spielman reminded me of a first year fantasy football drafter. I'll get lots of guys on the same teams LOL. He did do well day one but the rest was a bunch of reaches and a couple of head scrathers with a 60% Kicker and a big FB that cried, (really???), because even he didn't think he'd be drafted.

[goblueM]

let me get this straight... you don't like a pick because the guy cried?

what do you think about Vernon Davis? He cried after winning a game, guess you wouldn't want him on your team?

[nofishfisherman]

Day 2-3 Spielman reminded me of a first year fantasy football drafter. I'll get lots of guys on the same teams LOL. He did do well day one but the rest was a bunch of reaches and a couple of head scrathers with a 60% Kicker and a big FB that cried, (really???), because even he didn't think he'd be drafted.

He actually has a career average of 74%.

As much as you love or hate a draft you can't judge it on the monday morning afterward. Come back 2-3 years from now and then we can judge it accurately. After the first 2 rounds its a real guessing game either way.

And give me a break about the kid crying, who cares. The kid just realized his life long dream had just come true.

[PierBridge]

The draft should be 4 rounds max!

Bottom line we're thew worst team in the division again and I don't see much hope of that changing any time/years soon!

[Fish Head]

I think they had a great draft. The first 2 picks were great. Best players available and they filled a big need. The kicker does have me scratching my head a little, but I'm not going to have a huge problem with anything they do in round 6. It will be a couple years down the road until you can give a meaningful grade, but right now I'll give Spielman at least a B++.

[FISHINGURU]

Going to a 3-4 has nothing to do with the cover 2. Besides why would you go to a 3-4 when that would basically take your only stud defender out of what he does best.

Your right! 3-4 does have nothing to do with Cover 2, thats the good thing.

Are we not rebuilding? Why rebuild and keep the same defense where the secondary gets lit up constantly? Which teams run the Cover 2 anymore? Hey guys don't get burned deep but let them take anything else they want whenever they want it!!

Any QB and WR can light up a Cover 2 whenever they want these days, it is not hard to find the hole in the zone.

3-4 is the defense that puts the most pressure on QB's and that's the way to win games.

Who's to say Jared doesn't rule as a blitzing 3-4 linebacker? He'd be blitzed most of the time but the other good thing is Jared can actually cover unlike our real LB's.

For the people that don't like the kicker pick do you really think Longwell is a good kicker still? We have the only kicker in the league that can't kick it into the endzone even after they moved it up.

We decide to go for it on 4th because we don't even have faith Longwell can hit a long field goal. I can just imagine how it will be this year.

[nofishfisherman]

Your right! 3-4 does have nothing to do with Cover 2, thats the good thing.

Are we not rebuilding? Why rebuild and keep the same defense where the secondary gets lit up constantly? Which teams run the Cover 2 anymore? Hey guys don't get burned deep but let them take anything else they want whenever they want it!!

Any QB and WR can light up a Cover 2 whenever they want these days, it is not hard to find the hole in the zone.

3-4 is the defense that puts the most pressure on QB's and that's the way to win games.

Who's to say Jared doesn't rule as a blitzing 3-4 linebacker? He'd be blitzed most of the time but the other good thing is Jared can actually cover unlike our real LB's.

For the people that don't like the kicker pick do you really think Longwell is a good kicker still? We have the only kicker in the league that can't kick it into the endzone even after they moved it up.

We decide to go for it on 4th because we don't even have faith Longwell can hit a long field goal. I can just imagine how it will be this year.

I never argued against switching out of the cover 2. I'm all for doing whatever it takes to improve the secondary, whatever scheme that make take.

As for the 3-4 defense, Jared Allen may be good in that scheme but he also may be terrible. But right now he's the best pass rushing DE in the leauge playing in the 4-3 defense. I'm sure he and the coaches have a better sense of how best to utilize his skills then you or I do.

[FISHINGURU]

Right, but it is a team game. We are rebuilding, if we switched schemes and Jared don't work you trade him to a 4-3 team and get a bunch of picks. Jared almost broke the all time sack record last year and we had one of the worst defenses ever.

We won't be winning anything anytime soon so no need to cater a defense to one player. I'm one of the biggest Jared fans around but it is what it is.

[zepman]

Sorry to say this but the cover 2 isn't going anywhere...the DB's they drafted are all one's who excel in zone coverage.

Two competant safeties should improve the middle of the field.

[FISHINGURU]

I hear ya, it isn't going anywhere but it should.

The middle of the field will still be wide open unless we do some serious work with our LB's. A linebacker like EJ probably would of been a year in and year out probowler in a 3-4, instead he has to be known as the worst cover LB in the history of the game lol.

On the brightside I don't think our defense can get any worse then it was last year. Lets hope not anyway.

[nofishfisherman]

I was doing some reading on the 3-4 to better understand whats needed to run the scheme and right now we do not have the personel to run it.

You keep saying its a team game but right now our team as a whole is not suited for the 3-4.

The info I was reading puts a huge importance on having 3 big physical d-lineman with a nose tackle that is big enough and strong enough to take on and still get push against constant double teams. Maybe a younger Pat Williams would have been that guy but we don't have one currently.

The other 2 lineman are also going to be double teamed and while Kevin Williams may be able to play against that we don't have a 3rd that can let alone any backups that can. The goal of the 3-4 is to have your front 3 tie up the front 5 of the offense leaving your LB's free to make plays. That takes 3 pretty stout guys up front because they need to hold up and also get some push. If your front 3 can't do that your LB's are going to face blocking by larger olineman and aren't going to be able to make the plays the 3-4 is designed for.

Do you see any 3 of our dlineman being able to take on 4-5 olineman every play of the game? I'm sorry I just don't see that happening with the personel that we currently have to work with.

I know the 3-4 is all the rage right now but remember the Giants were able to win using the 4-3. Either defense can be effective or a disaster it just comes down to personel and execution.

[goblueM]

it all comes down to having the right guys for the right scheme, and then executing that scheme well. Just having a 34 or 43 doesn't predicate your success. For instance, the Giants won the SB with a 43, whereas the worst 2 defenses (Pats and GB) were 34.

I agree the Vikes don't have the best personnel for a 34 right now, but if you decide to change you are going to go through an adjustment period of 1-2 years regardless of when you do it. Even if you have the right guys, you're still going to be transitioning 3 and 5 tech DTs to being 0 tech NT, DEs, and then taking your DEs and moving them to OLBs, for instance.

[nofishfisherman]

Exactly. I'm not against a 34 in principle I just don't think we are suited to play it. If you want to install it as your base defense its a 2-3 year plan at least.

Either defense can be effective so I just don't see the point in changing when you already have the best DE in the leauge to build a 4-3 defense around. Going to 3-4 would seem like a giant step backward.

[TR21HP]

goblueM hit it right on the head. It's execution ,gentlemen, regardless of the defensive scheme you run. The scheme isn't the problem. If you know football at all when watching the vikes on defense last year linebackers as well as DB's were constantly out of position regardless of what team they were going against. They were to slow to react. Defense is all about reading keys and if you aren't picking them up quick enough the game is by you in that instant. How many times did you see two or three db's looking at eachother after a completed pass or touchdown last year? If you think instead of react on defense last year with the vikes is what you're going to get. Either they are not being properly prepared to play or they're too slow to recognize patterns in the game and you can't make an adjustment during a play they are just too fast. Coaches, prepare the players, players, get your butt in the film room and study and maybe you can put a team on the field that can win a few more games.

[goblueM]

If you think instead of react on defense last year with the vikes is what you're going to get. Either they are not being properly prepared to play or they're too slow to recognize patterns in the game and you can't make an adjustment during a play they are just too fast.

Well said. As one of my coaches was fond of saying:

"Clear minds make fast legs"

[MUSKY18]

Agreed....its all about the players executing. How many times was Allen double teamed or had a back help chip block, Williams double teamed on the inside and you never heard Robison's name called? I think there were games when he never even made a tackle or play. He needs to go. Without a threat on the left side, it will be the same story this season. Yes, Allen had a career year with sacks, but how many more could it have been if we had someone on the left side the other team had to worry about too? He would have shattered the record easily. Lieber going away also hurt. LB's went from among league best to league worst. Sorry, Erin Henderson has no business in the NFL and he can take his aging broken brother with him. Although I like the Vikings picks in the secondary, and they are going to immediately step in and help, when the QB has 8-10 seconds to throw the ball,someone is going to get open sooner or later. It all starts up front, and if they have a great year, our secondary looks that much better!

[Musky Buck]

Agreed if we can't rush the thrower in a league where guys are chucking it 50 some times a game if they want to or need to we're nobody, it's a QB league no longer does Ditka's you need to run the football and stop the run win in this league. Only 4 RB's averaged more than 15 carries a game, wink wink remember oh it sets up play action whatever, they are throwing it Ditka, RB's are getting like a 2 yard average, where'd Chris Johnson rank last year etc. There's no room to run anymore. It's a Brady Big Ben Peyton and Eli and such league, how many times does your fantasy team get killed by being on the goal line and a dump to Gronkowski or whoever for a 1yd TD pass, that's where play action is huge. Rush the tar out of the passer or Rodgers will just kill ya, heck Matt Stafford will kill ya with CJ. You can't defend it. AHHHHHHHHHHhh.

[FISHINGURU]

You guys are funny, you claim we don't have the personnel to run a 3-4 and how it would take a few years to build. Do you actually believe we have the proper personnel to run the Cover 2 and that it's not going to take a few years to build?

Do some research on the Tampa 2 and think of the players we've had the past few years and tell me how they ever thought it would work. I guess we can't run a 3-4 because we don't have a big DT to clog up the middle, but to run the Cover 2 we still need about 2 guys on the line, a couple corners, a couple safties, and a few LB's lol.

In the past we were more set to run a 3-4 then we were a Cover 2. At this point you could go in any direction with the scheme when you have 1 or 2 good players on your whole defense, any team has to adjust to a change at one point or another.

[TR21HP]

Fishinguru,

What I and the past couple of posters have said, and I think you will agree is the team is not very good. Part of the problem is the defense and as you've said the scheme doesn't fit the players . The coaches responsibility is to fit the players to the scheme, the players responsibility is to learn the scheme. Not to be a generalist but a majority of today's players are probably the finest athletes to ever play the game, therein lies the problem. These players have been getting by in highschool and college on pure athletic talent. They may be great athletes but are they great football players- big difference there. Players have to study film and become students of the game as their athletic talent is only going to take them so far. You are entitled to your own opinion on schemes but I think the coaches have a little more knowledge than a fan when it comes to developing players and fitting them into a system that guarantees success. If that doesn't happen it's the coaches fault first and foremost but a good part of it also rests with the players.No scheme is any good if it doesn't have players who understand what they are supposed to do and do it during a game.