Buying a American made truck

[CJH]

A recall is not a bad thing. It says a company recognizes a problem, has found a solution, and is taking care of it for you at no cost to you.

There have been many times we have called toyota and honda to inquire about parts and the parts guys have told us to have the customer bring the car to them and they will take care of it no charge regardless of the mileage on the vehicle. I have never had that happen with the big three!

That maybe true, but the Govt is investigating whether Toyota held out/delayed announcing Recalls. Toyota under their last CEO (before Toyoda took over) did not operate the way it traditionally has.

Off of the NHTSA HSOforum:

NHTSA Launches Probe into Timeliness of Three Toyota Recalls

Tuesday, February 16, 2010

Contact: Olivia Alair

Telephone: (202) 366-4570

The National Highway Traffic Safety Administration today announced that it is using its statutory authority to obtain documents from Toyota to determine if the automaker conducted three of its recent recalls in a timely manner. Federal law requires all auto manufacturers to notify NHTSA within five days of determining that a safety defect exists and promptly conduct a recall.

"Safety recalls are very serious matters and automakers are required to quickly report defects," said U.S. Transportation Secretary Ray LaHood.

The auto safety agency is requiring Toyota to provide documents showing when and how it learned of the defects affecting approximately 6 million vehicles in the U.S. alone. The probe will examine how the manufacturer learned of these defects, such as through consumer complaints or factory testing. Investigators are also looking into whether Toyota discovered the problems during pre-production or post-production of the affected vehicles.

Officials are checking whether Toyota has covered all affected models in its recent recalls to ensure Toyota did not miss any problems. The agency will obtain information on production data, incidents, complaints, warranty complaints, copies of tests, dates of meetings, timelines, and supplier information.

The three recalls in question involve various Toyota and Lexus vehicles. Two of the recalls are related to the entrapment of gas pedals by floor mats. The first recall was announced on September 26, 2007, and was followed by a subsequent one on October 6, 2009. The October recall was expanded on January 29, 2010, to include additional vehicles. The third recall, involving sticking gas pedals, was announced on January 21, 2010. Click here for more information.

"Our top priority is safety and we expect that all manufacturers address automotive safety issues quickly and in a forthright manner," said David Strickland, Administrator for the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration.

NHTSA has the authority to seek civil penalties for a variety of violations by manufacturers, equipment suppliers, registered importers and vehicle customizers. If agency officials determine that an auto manufacturer violated its statutory obligations, the manufacturer could be liable for a maximum of $16.4 million in civil penalties.

[deadeye]

Just like in any other market, companies tend to leap frog each other which at the end of the day is great for us as consumers.

I just really don't care for "Buy American" being used as a marketing gimmick though. The product should be good enough to sell itself.

This is pretty much how I feel too.

Its interesting to me to see how every couple years now everything is re-designed too. Before trucks would go for a LONG time without major improvement (think dodge ram early 70's-92 without a major re-design).

Now with some extra heat burning their fuzzy penguins they are making them better and better.

I can say that I'm not falling for the whole recall situation either. Nissan has had a couple massive recalls that aren't in the news, GM should have had a few recalls that were never done or ever talked about. Recalls don't really make or break a vehicle for me. I would rather have a problem that is fixed than have a problem that isn't taken care of (why I don't own a gm anymore).

Honestly though, I always do route for the home team. I still have a Dodge truck. It would be nice to see the ownership for the big 3 be here, have the vehicles and parts made here and see them do really well. However, right now I think we are in a good market for consumers since they are all clawing and scratching for our money. So if a American truck is less American than a foreign truck so be it. At least we got some jobs here for people to make the trucks and we can say we bought a vehicle made here.

[Jim Almquist]

Toyota realized that if they wanted to build an "American Truck" they needed to manufacture it in the US. They built a plant for it in Texas for the latest generation of Tundra and have been building them there ever since. More and more foreign car makers are doing this, based on the favorable exchange rates with the dollar (the dollar is weak, so its cheaper to manufacture here). Its interesting to note that despite this, it still is in 4th place in terms of sales in the full size category (5th if you separate out the Silverado/Sierra), only beating the Nissan Titan. They are good trucks, but some of the issues at Toyota have definitely deterred it from overtaking the Big Three thus far (which have had their own issues).

Here are the auto sales for 2010:

Vehicle Name/% change YTD/Vehicle Sold

Ford F - Series PU 13.9 528,349

Chevrolet Silverado PU 27.7 370,135

Toyota Camry / Solara -10.7 327,804

Honda Accord 12.6 282,530

Honda Civic 26.6 260,218

Dodge Ram PU 93.4 199,652

Honda CR-V 23.8 203,714

Nissan Altima 23.5 229,263

Chevrolet Equinox 79.1 149,979

Ford Fusion 20 219,219

Toyota Corolla / Matrix -35.5 266,082

Ford Escape -2.4 191,026

Toyota RAV4 4.4 170,877

GMC Sierra PU 38.3 129,794

Hyundai Sonata 52.3 196,623

Toyota Prius 32.8 140,928

Dodge Caravan 66.6 103,323

Hyundai Elantra 127.2 132,246

Volkswagen Jetta 27 123,213

Jeep Grand Cherokee 211.3 84,63

Sources: Cars.com, and the Wall Street Journal

I wonder what those sales would look like if you got rid of all the trucks the state and federal government agency's purchase.

[LMITOUT]

I wonder what those sales would look like if you got rid of all the trucks the state and federal government agency's purchase.

Toyota's are available in the state bid as well (at least they are in MN anyway). The problem is they are too expensive compared to the GM, Ford, or Dodge options.

Not only that, but the public would throw a fit if they saw their local or state government agency's stickers on a foreign vehicle. Yes, it seems like a minor thing, but people do notice where their tax dollars are spent and that wouldn't go over real well.

[mixxedbagg]

Quote:

don't feel bad about buying a good product at a good price... after all what could be american that exercising your choice in a free market?

I don't consider it a free market if the country you're purchasing from doesn't have meaningful safety, wage, or environmental standards. That's a tilted field.

[goblueM]

Toyota's are available in the state bid as well (at least they are in MN anyway). The problem is they are too expensive compared to the GM, Ford, or Dodge options.

Not only that, but the public would throw a fit if they saw their local or state government agency's stickers on a foreign vehicle. Yes, it seems like a minor thing, but people do notice where their tax dollars are spent and that wouldn't go over real well.

too true, a bunch of people threw a hissy fit when St. Paul parks and rec bought toyota vehicles

[aanderud]

I don't have hard stats to back this up, but I have a hunch the biggest reason Tundra is ranked 5th in truck sales is because they have no 3/4 or 1-ton offerings.

[Jeremy airjer W]

I forgot about the Nissan Recall. I have made more than one truck payment from replacing crank/cam sensors!

[deadeye]

Oh, there is more Nissan recalls than most know about (on a scale similar to Toyota's recalls). I am glad to say they are willing to fix them and do a decent job at it (for the most part). However, they have escaped their demons with little controversy. I would be willing to bet if they were top dog on the food chain they would have all kinds of mud thrown at them by the competitors (i.e. Toyota).

Anyway, I can't see how a recall should stop someone from choosing a vehicle. Obviously cars were designed by people and people make mistakes. The difference is who is willing to step up and take care of the mistake. I think the whole Toyota thing last year opened up a dark side of the auto industry (they got caught, but others have been doing that for years). It appears that there is more proactive treatment given to that sort of thing now and its showing in the way recalls are handled. So if they are going to recall stuff I applaud it because they are handling the problem vs hiding from it.

But recalls aside I think it is pretty cool to see where the trucks are made and where the parts are coming from. It does sort of turn the whole buy American mindset upside down for a lot of people. And again, I am glad to see that the jobs producing these are here vs somewhere else.

[Jeremy airjer W]

"bad decisions make good stories" - That's fabulous deadeye!

[deadeye]

Its 100% the truth. I know by experience

[zamboni]

"bad decisions make good stories" - That's fabulous deadeye!

sounds like my 7 and a half yr marriage that ended last year

[mechanico]

Boy howdy! You really opened a can of worms!

When I was a boy in the 60's we saw foreign companies, mostly japanese, copying our products. They used low paid workers to make them cheeper, and the quality really wasn't there. Then they improved the quality a bit, which increased their cost, AND they had to pay a terrif. They tried "dumping" their products on our markets. (selling for less than cost to get into the market) They could afford to do that because their government was running their factories. Dumping was made illegal here just a little before the terrif was lessened and eventually dropped.

In the 70's there was a fake gas embargo that limited our gas supplies and raised the price drastically (it went up over a dollar per gallon from 50 to 75 cents) All the sudden people had a use for the small underpowered gas sipping japanese cars.

The 80's were very bad for the American car makers. They turned out a lot of junk and got greeder, while the japanese kept improving quality. By the time the 90's were half over the Americans finally realized they were spiraling, but it was too late. Too many people baught American junk and were not happy about it. Loyalty to foreigh products had a firm foothold.

I am one of those "Buy American" jealots, but even I have my limits! The greed that has taken over this country has cost us dearly. Again, when I was a boy a man could count on working 20 years at a factory and retiring with a retirement fund and medical insurance wasn't a problem. Not so any more. There was a time when "What's good for GM is good for America." But it's a different world now. In my short 54 years on this earth, this country has changed from the manufacturing and moral leader of the world to one of the most greedy and imoral countries that ever existed.

Let's see what happens next while you ponder wheather to buy an American-japanese car, or a japanese-American car.

[delcecchi]

Sorry, the junk started much earlier than the 80's. Fords made cars of compressed rust, and don't forget the vega and pinto. And I had a 77 impala with the plastic tranny. Replace every 40k.

The japanese figured out how to make good cars. US companies kept making [PoorWordUsage]. Finally maybe got it together recently (although from one of the other threads it sounds like GM has regressed)

[mechanico]

You're probably right Del. But you have to admit there's nothing like kicking in the four barrel of a late 60's US made big block V8!

[Jeremy airjer W]

You should hammer down a Tundra with a I-Force 5.7 liter!

[Jim Almquist]

You should hammer down a Tundra with a I-Force 5.7 liter!

Better yet while your towing your boat and passing a semi

[Valv]

You should hammer down a Tundra with a I-Force 5.7 liter!

Better yet while your towing your boat and passing a semi

Passed it uphill towing a 40ft flatbed loaded with a skidsteer and a BMW, pulling it with a Dodge 3500 with Cummins

[Jeremy airjer W]

Passed it uphill towing a 40ft flatbed loaded with a skidsteer and a BMW, pulling it with a Dodge 3500 with Cummins

That's only because we stopped to help out some poor guy with a broken down chevy!

[reinhard1]

i realy dont know what truck to buy next. i'm thinking ford and i have a dodge now. v-8 off road ram 4 wheel drive. the engine had been great as i have a little over 150 thousand on it but it went through a transmission at 110 thousand even though i was not hard on it. definatly will get me a 250 next time, heavy duty. good luck.

[Jeremy airjer W]

If you go new, I hope fords new engines are a little better in the get up and go department! The 5.4 is/was a dog. I realize you don't need to set land speed records in a pickup but.....

[muddpuppy]

The 5.0 is night and day compared to the 5.4 when it comes to gitty-up-&-go. I am still waiting to drive the 3.5 eco but Ford will be the next Truck. I really like the looks of Dodge but have not had good luck with them. I just saw the commercial last night I guess the Hemi is supposed to get 20mpg now?

[Scott K]

I have driven the 3.5 eco, it will sit you back in the seat pretty good, and get 20+ mpg. If I was in the market right now, that would be my choice!

[LightningBG]

Have you seen the new GMC 2500 Denali HD P/U? I'm thinking that might be going to the top of the wish list, but I cant imagine it will be cheap. But its so cute (as my wife would say about anything she buys)

[reinhard1]

i want something when i pull my 18.50 crestliner, i dont want to slow down going up gradual hills. here i am on the road pulling my boat going 60 with my overdrive off and a 250 hd drives by me pulling a big a$$ horse trailer with no effort. kind of makes me sick. as far as engine problems, no problems and only had to tune it up once at 150 miles. good luck.