Zone 3 APR

[jkcmj]

4 does and 16 bucks.

And all boone and crockett?

No boonies, but enough bucks that I could have harvested a young one for freezer meat, and still had plenty of mature bucks in the area. Point is, we don't need antler restrictions handed down by the DNR. What we need is for each to be able to manage their own properties as they see fit. Those managing for big bucks are having plenty of success without treading on the rights of the rest of us.

[james_walleye]

How many people in the grand scheme of things are fortunate enough to own land in se mn? Not only that, but a parcel big enough to manage. You aren't managing 160 acres. You might be passing bucks up on that much land but they aren't going to always stay there. I have 120 acres that my uncles own, and I let bucks go, but they end up hanging in the neighbors trees. I see that firsthand every season.

[heat checker]

I can see both sides of this argument. But it just amazes me how defensive the "brown its down" crowd gets on this subject. It's as if they aren't told pheasant hunting, duck hunting,and fishing what they can harvest. It's nothing new to be told what you can harvest. With that many deer, it's not like it affects the chances of taking a deer. Let the 3 yr trial happen, see what happens, and IF it turns out to be a permanent thing, my advice is grow up and get over it. No, I don't live or hunt there, but I would love to have that kind of a deer population where I live. Maybe there should be more blessings counted, less arguing, and just let the DNR do their job?

[Deep]

How many people in the grand scheme of things are fortunate enough to own land in se mn? Not only that, but a parcel big enough to manage. You aren't managing 160 acres. You might be passing bucks up on that much land but they aren't going to always stay there. I have 120 acres that my uncles own, and I let bucks go, but they end up hanging in the neighbors trees. I see that firsthand every season.

So you have 120 acres that your Uncle owns? Just because you let a buck pass by, why is that a bad thing that the neighbor harvested that deer? That may have been the buck She or He wanted to harvest. Why are you judging them?

[DHost21]

Last two posts by heat checker and james walleye are spot on!

[james_walleye]

I'm not judging anyone. Did you read above to see the context to which I wrote that post? Just pointing out that unless you have hundreds of acres and neighbors with large tracts of land practicing the same thing, you can't manage a "deer herd". And out of 50,000 zone 3 hunters there aren't many people in that position.

[jkcmj]

What I get a kick out of is the attitude of those who want to manage everyone elses land for their own personal benefit.

Most people enjoy shooting and seeing big bucks, but not at the expense of being able to enjoy the hunting experience.

The whole thing is rediculous. Even suggesting that you should have the right to tell your neighbor what size antlers he must have on his venison burgers! If he feeds them on his land, I think he has every right to take them at the age of tenderness he prefers.

Now antler point restrictions on public lands...go for it! Public resource, public opinion should reign.

[MJ1657]

Very good post jkcmj.

[hockeybc69]

I am with James Walleye and crowd on this one.

[surewood]

I always thought the hunting experience is getting out with friends and family and enjoying the outdoors, harvest or not. Did'nt know that was at the expense of APR. From reading some posts sounds like many Zone 3 hunters pass on does to shoot big bucks already. Which would'nt help the restriction. Don't have any facts on that, just the impression I got.

[DHost21]

Agree with jkcmj on the public land thing too! I dont own land if i did i would manage it the way i want but i hunt public land and I would love and i mean absolutely love to see APR on public land!!

[jtoast]

If this is a social issue, the surveys and meetings showed that the hunters of zone 3 supported regulations to protect bucks. If you think that the DNR made up the results, your paranoid and need medication, I can't help you there. Biologically APR's are a tool for population control. Year one didn't work as planned. How could that be? If you cant shoot a small buck, and you want a deer, you would have shot a doe. That's a sound theory. People didn't shoot does because? They didn't want to (they say 40% don't). They couldn't get to them (90+% private land). Hunting conditions? Less hunters? Of those reasons, are any influenced at all by having APR's or not? Other than a drop in hunters, nothing would. And if someone stopped hunting because of that rule, seems to me they are more concerned about antlers that the trophy guys, and I don't want them whiners in the woods. This needs to play out for two more years, if for no other reason than to give the DNR time to figure out why the doe harvest dropped. If they can't, we're looking at restrictions that we hunters didn't vote for! Ouch

Call your Legislator(s) and tell them to vote this repeal down.

[Rippinlip]

Just have to toss my $.02 in here again.

We got into a little discussion about this last year and I had to laugh.

I told a co-worker that is all for APR that I was in favor of a buck lottery instead of a APR, still protecting bucks, but in a different way.

He replied back to me..."Nobody is going to tell me what I can and can't shoot when a big buck walks past!"

SO I asked him what do you think an APR does?

So there was a person with blinded vision.

It's ok for everyone to be restricted, but him of course.

[james_walleye]

What I get a kick out of is the attitude of those who want to manage everyone elses land for their own personal benefit.

Most people enjoy shooting and seeing big bucks, but not at the expense of being able to enjoy the hunting experience.

The whole thing is rediculous. Even suggesting that you should have the right to tell your neighbor what size antlers he must have on his venison burgers! If he feeds them on his land, I think he has every right to take them at the age of tenderness he prefers.

Now antler point restrictions on public lands...go for it! Public resource, public opinion should reign.

As if other game laws don't apply to private land. You act as if this is something new. Why don't you head up a push to abolish 1 buck a year on private land. How dare someone tell you that you can only shoot 1 buck a year on private land. And how dare they tell you that you can only use a gun for 9 days. And by god you should be able to have pheasant load in your gun to in case you jump a rooster.

[picksbigwagon]

I have been thinking about this the last couple days and if the whole basis of APR in zone 3 was to get people to shoot more doe's, why didn't they try the Earn a buck plan? I know earn a buck has not been wildly successful, but if the number one goal was to get us zone 3 hunters (yes I hunt zone 3 when I hunt in MN) to shoot more doe's, make the guys wanting to kill a buck take a doe first. 8 or more years of very liberal limits on doe's hasn't depleted the doe population, why would making people count antlers work better?

That being said, I was against this idea in the beginning (APR), BUT after the discussions we had here last year, I was accepting the idea of it and I was curious to see what the results were after the three year period. I don't remember anyone arguing last year however that APR's main goal was to reduce the doe population. I read a lot about letting the little bucks grow, the age structure of the heard is out of whack, too many 1.5 yr old bucks are not being allowed to see their full potential (I assume rack size potential). And the one that really gets me everytime: Why don't we have the trophies like Iowa and Wisconsin, we need APR so we can be at the top of the Boone and Crocket List....

[PEATMOSS]

And the one that really gets me everytime: Why don't we have the trophies like Iowa and Wisconsin, we need APR so we can be at the top of the Boone and Crocket List....

This is ALL it's about. Everything else is just lipstick on a pig.

[nonteepical]

Here's something people are missing, on average where aprs are in.place, by the 3rd year, the buck harvest success rate returns to what it was before aprs were in place.

[helpme]

I do know one thing we all agree on! We all agree to disagree.

[PEATMOSS]

Here's something people are missing, on average where aprs are in.place, by the 3rd year, the buck harvest success rate returns to what it was before aprs were in place.

Here's something else people are missing. Since 2006, there has been a nationwide downward trend in both B&C (-10%) and P&Y (-18%) entries.

Could it be possible that management practices like APR that promote the removal of genetically superior bucks are starting to deplete the gene pool? Something to seriously consider as this year will be the year that Z3 starts to whack all the better 2 1/2 year olds and leave the smaller ones to breed.

[Jameson]

I have been thinking about this the last couple days and if the whole basis of APR in zone 3 was to get people to shoot more doe's, why didn't they try the Earn a buck plan?....

lack of spine.

[InTheNorthwoods]

What I get a kick out of is the attitude of those who want to manage everyone elses land for their own personal benefit.

Most people enjoy shooting and seeing big bucks, but not at the expense of being able to enjoy the hunting experience.

The whole thing is rediculous. Even suggesting that you should have the right to tell your neighbor what size antlers he must have on his venison burgers! If he feeds them on his land, I think he has every right to take them at the age of tenderness he prefers.

Now antler point restrictions on public lands...go for it! Public resource, public opinion should reign.

Not to stray to far off the heart of this matter, but I feel this needs to be clarified in order to fully understand the issue:

The deer that live and travel on, over, and around your land ARE A PUBLIC RESOURCE.

Just because you own the land, doesn't mean you own the animals on it. Quite the opposite in fact. Animals are owned by the State. So whether you hunt on your own land, the states' land, or federal land - you are hunting the States' animals. Which is exactly why you need to be issued a tag by the State to harvest the States' animals. Because they are the States' animals, the State can regulate how they are hunted, when they are hunted, and which animals can be hunted.

As to my opinion of APR's, I have thoroughly explained my position in the past, and will save myself from carpal tunnel by not engaging in this debate again.

[helpme]

If I am feeding MY deer I do not think my neighbor should be able to shoot MY deer.

[InTheNorthwoods]

If I am feeding MY deer I do not think my neighbor should be able to shoot MY deer.

Is this in jest, or do you own, raise, and ranch captive deer?

[Bear55]

Here's something else people are missing. Since 2006, there has been a nationwide downward trend in both B&C (-10%) and P&Y (-18%) entries.

Could it be possible that management practices like APR that promote the removal of genetically superior bucks are starting to deplete the gene pool? Something to seriously consider as this year will be the year that Z3 starts to whack all the better 2 1/2 year olds and leave the smaller ones to breed.

I am neutral on this subject but that is highly unlikely, last time I checked the handful of state with APR were putting out more book animals then before. I also strongly believe we are not capable of altering the genetics of a wild deer herd in such a short time span if at all. It might be possible you are looking at many decades of "high grading" to make that kind of an impact.

The simple answer to your question is a lower overall population of whitetails across the country. Northern MN, Upper and Lower Michigan, WI, and probably a few more of the northern states have seen their deer populations drop from the peak years of the mid 2000's.

I of course can't find any numbers to back this up but you have to ask if there is really a APR conspiracy that MN is now a part of or are there just less deer leading to less mature bucks being shot.

[Getanet]

I of course can't find any numbers to back this up but you have to ask if there is really a APR conspiracy that MN is now a part of or are there just less deer leading to less mature bucks being shot.

One thing that is likely adding to less record book bucks being shot is the fact that across the country hunting numbers are dropping. These statistics are taken from a Dec 9, 2010 USA Today article:

*The U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service estimates 33 states saw declines in hunting license sales the last two decades.

*Massachusetts has seen a 50% falloff in hunting license sales during that time.

*Michigan has seen a 31% drop in license sales the past 20 years

*Pennsylvania license sales have dipped 20% the past two decades

*Wisconsin 2.5% the past 20 years. But firearms license sales dropped 9% between 2000 and 2009.