Wirsbo (Uponor) plumbing line reliability

[Steve Foss]

A mention of a Wirsbo plumbing line breaking in another thread led me to start this one.

We've got an amalgamation of pvc and copper at our seasonal lake cabin, and I was looking at replacing it all with Wirsbo. I've worked with Wirsbo before and know the ins and outs, but what I'm really interested in is the idea that someone had a Wirsbo line actually break.

For those who use this a lot, or who have it, I'm interested in other instances where the actual line broke. I know some of the older style brass fittings were suspect, but those have been replaced by better stuff, and it's the lines themselves that concern me. I'm planning on finishing off the utility room in tongue-in-groove pine to match other rooms in the cabin, and had thought about putting the Wirsbo inside the studwall.

[PurpleFloyd]

I have had Wirsbo installed in the past 2 houses that I have lived in and used it for the water lines in my cabinet shop when I switched from forced air to a boiler and never had a problem at any location and several plumbers we work with use it now in residential plumbing applications and I haven't seen any cases of failure personally.

Is this breaking you are speaking of happening due to freezing water or just manufacturing defects?

[Steve Foss]

Thanks, PF. That's what I've been told by several certified plumbers, and have never heard of a break in a Wirsbo line until today. On another thread here on this board someone mentioned that a Wirsbo line broke, but didn't provide any more detail.

[Powerstroke]

Steve, working for the city water dept I see this stuff being installed in just about every application they advertise. I haven't heard a single bad thing about it. If you've worked with it before you know it has its quirks such as the unique fittings, but if you've got the tools and the know-how, its a great product.

To be honest I had to look it up because I'd never heard anyone call it Wirsbo before. I always hear it called PEX. Anyway, when I do my remodel/addition, I'm sure I will be going to PEX for my plumbing and for some in-floor heat uses. A guy I worked with who recently retired, redid his entire house and converted to PEX throughout. He is one of the handiest (and smartest) people I know and he still chose to use PEX and that is quite the endorsement.

I've never heard anyone have a problem with the line itself. I've only heard of 1 or two times when something was wrong and it was due to the fitting not being done correctly.

[Steve Foss]

Thanks, Andy. Wirsbo is simply one brand of PEX style material, like Shimano is one brand of spinning reel. The plumbers I talked to in northern MN said Wirsbo specs out best of all of them when it comes to toughness/breakage.

[CAMAN]

I had PEX (sorry don't know exactly which brand) in my last house and loved it. There were a couple places in the house that weren't sealed quite properly the first winter I lived there so the lines in those areas would freeze when the temp outside got below 15deg. They froze probably a dozen times over that winter and never had any issue with them bursting or leaking once they got thawed out. I'd go with it again with no hesitation if I got the chance. The thing I like the best about it is there should be no fittings along the entire run except at the faucets and distribution area. So if there is going to be a problem with one of the connections most of the time it is easy to get to. I also loved the fact it was color coded, blue for cold water red for hot water, no more having to trace the lines back to see which is which during the install. My home inspector praised the guy who remodeled the home for choosing to use the stuff.

[MARINERMAGNUM]

Strange,no mention of rodents chewing the hot lines. Several plumbers I know loved pex until mice chewed thru the hot lines inside of walls. They only chewed the hots,never the cold lines.

In several condos (no basement) which they ran it overhead in ceilings,the vermin chewed thru and the ceiling started leaking while they were watching tv. Guess there were plenty of mice in the corn fields where they built.

I kinda figured this was happening all over. Guess not.

[croixflats]

From what I see the cost savings is nill only to the fact it is easier to install long runs. I have also seen damage from them vermin. If you feel confident vermin wont show up go for it but for me copper be the route unless I do a zone encased in concrete like a basement. If I had the money the garage would get it. Worked at a place the garage had in floor it was chilly at times, but to pull a frozen piece of equipment in and have it thawed out the next morning was awesome. Much better than the radiant heat from above.

[Eric Wettschreck]

The company I work for has a research farm the next town away. Many of the animal buildings have wirsbo plumbing, and it's always leaking. However, I don't chalk this up to the material, I chalk this up to the installation. You should see it, it looks like #2.

The repairs myself and the other fellas have made have not leaked.....yet.

Not trying to talk ya in or out of anything, Steve. I'm still a fan of copper, especially in the house, double especially if there are trace amounts of bacteria in the water.

[delcecchi]

I have heard that PEX is not very tolerant of UV exposure. Is that true?

[JBar]

Never had heard of wirsbo piping actually breaking, installed many feet of Rehau tubing never had a single problem.

[mabr]

My plumbers use it whenever they can. Its easy installation. The fittings are expensive the pipe itself is relatively cheap compared to copper. I'm of the opinion that copper is tried and proving. any pex has only been around for what 15 years. Im trying to remember the other brand that had all the lawsuits previously. And that wasn't (if memory serves me correctly) related to the pipe itself but to the fittings.

I'll let them use it in certain areas but not if its not readily available to maintenance.

As a side note. the pipe itself is GREAT. it expands unreal compared to copper but the fittings, the jury is still out IMO.

[Tom7227]

Seems to me that this discussion is about 30 years too early for a complete answer. Whether it lasts 5 or 10 years isn't good enough for me. Just look back at the costs to replace the earlier plastic piping and think about it again. Saving some bucks on construction might make your house more affordable but it may look like a foolish choice sometime in the future.

[deerminator]

We have wirsbo floors on our main level under Kahrs engineered wood and porcelain tile. Knock on wood, we've never had any trouble in the past six years since we built other than a fried circuit board that powers the system. The heated floors sure are nice in the winter and our electric bill is pretty reasonable. Saves a lot on heating bills for our house. I saw a Holmes on Homes recently where he talked up the toughness of PEX tubing and that guy criticizes most everything.

[deerminator]

BTW, thumbs up on the Kahrs engineered wood. Stands up well to two small kids, two active beagles, and lots of things being drug across it. Plus you can sand it down and refinish up to three times. Think we'll do it after the kids leave the house.

[Redlantern]

I'm with mabr on this. I don't want any fittings in an a area I can't get to. Tough to do all the time but I try like heck not to have any more of them than I can help. I really prefer copper for potable water. No expansion to speak of and I can make nice, clean looking right angles. Sure it's covered with sheetrock most of the time but there still is workmanship and pride involved.

[MARINERMAGNUM]

I never miss a chance to sweat solder!!

[ribsey_77]

great stuff made right here in minnesota. it has been used in europe for many years cause its first plant was in sweden. I have it in my house and is [PoorWordUsage] proof to install.

[Archerysniper]

I'm with mabr on this. I don't want any fittings in an a area I can't get to. Tough to do all the time but I try like heck not to have any more of them than I can help. I really prefer copper for potable water. No expansion to speak of and I can make nice, clean looking right angles. Sure it's covered with sheetrock most of the time but there still is workmanship and pride involved.

When ever I have to deal with it I replace it with copper even the new propress copper fittings I will remove if time allows and install sweat fittings.

[CAMAN]

When ever I have to deal with it I replace it with copper even the new propress copper fittings I will remove if time allows and install sweat fittings.

Why??? Sounds like a huge waste to me. And even copper isn't 100% fail proof, it just doesn't get the press the new technology does when it fails. I've seen professionally installed copper fail and cause major damage, and sweating copper is more prone to human error than PEX and Propress because of all the fittings and sweating involved.

[PurpleFloyd]

Why??? Sounds like a huge waste to me. And even copper isn't 100% fail proof, it just doesn't get the press the new technology does when it fails. I've seen professionally installed copper fail and cause major damage, and sweating copper is more prone to human error than PEX and Propress because of all the fittings and sweating involved.

+1.

I have seen more copper fitting leaks than pex fitting leaks by a wide margin in the houses I have worked in.

[MARINERMAGNUM]

I have seen more copper fitting leaks than pex fitting leaks by a wide margin in the houses I have worked in.

You wanna compare some copper sweated back in the 50's that's still going strong to pex?

Never seen a mouse chew thru copper.

[Redlantern]

As far as propress goes, do you really trust a small rubber o-ring to last as long as sweat joint? It has some applications for emergency repairs but as a permanent piping system, I think it leaves a lot to be desired.

[PurpleFloyd]

[quote I have seen more copper fitting leaks than pex fitting leaks by a wide margin in the houses I have worked in.

You wanna compare some copper sweated back in the 50's that's still going strong to pex?

Never seen a mouse chew thru copper.

Mice chew through wiring too that has copper and that is one of the leading causes of fires so are you going to find an alternative for that too?

I understand what you are saying but look, there are good and bad points to every possible product we can use. They used galvanized for years and that corroded. Copper works great with soft water and if the fittings are soldered correctly but if the solder was not done properly then they can also leak and if the water is hard (Acidic) then the copper can leach into the water and cause health problems in some cases ( It is rare, but probably not much different than rodent chew-thru's)And it bursts when the water inside freezes.PVC is very cheap and easy and works great in some situations while not well at all in others.

In many cases id there is a fitting failure I would rather have a situation where the fitting is only in a accessible area and that is only possible when you have a product like Wirsbo where you can pull a continuous seam free run rather than a fitting at every bend and turn that end up drywalled over and not tested until the drywall is up and the paint is dry.

[Archerysniper]

How dosen't test their piping system before it is sheetrocked or covered this is just asking for failure. Work in Saint Paul or their water district and you will also have to have a water pipe inspection and the brand of pex you are installing better be approved by the state and you better be a certified installer or you are ripping it out.