careful where you park!

[shnelson]

Made it out saturday morning, was pretty exciting to get out on the ice for the first time this year. I wasn't paying too much attention when I was unloading everything and I just parked with the flow of the rest of the vehicles sitting in the launch parking lot.

When I came back, I was greeted by a CO asking how the catch was and the usual conversation, told me to go ahead and pull my truck around and he'd check my tags/registration while I loaded up the portable. When I came back, he asked me if I knew I was parked in a handicap spot, and I said no that spot was open to the left of me. Then he said 'well, you were parked in the loading zone directly next to the handicap spot, so I need to write you a ticket'. He also wrote up the guy that was parked to the right of me, which was also in a designated loading zone (unmarked by any type of post). I tried to reason with him, but he says even if the launch is unmaintained and doesn't get plowed, they have to enforce the parking spot if it is marked with a post. It didn't seem to matter to him that the spot I was parked in was not marked by a post, but rather lines that were covered with snow.

I plan on going to court over this one, as I do not feel that I was in the wrong. Had I been in front of the posted sign, then I would happily pay the ticket and just move on. It is tough for me to grasp that I was doing everything by the books (I even reprinted my lost fishing license the night before for $6 just to have it!), and he still wanted to find something to hit me with. I wasn't rude at all & thought I carried on a pretty respectable conversation (until he made the determination that the ticket would stick). Do they have a quota they need to hit? Just trying to find out why he gave me such a hard time...

I didn't let that completely ruin my day though, we hit another lake in the evening (parking miles away from any handicap spots!) and managed a few decent sized crappies.

[Todd_J]

If it were me, I'd certainly fight it in court. Is there any indication on the sign that it was "van accessible" or "lift accessible"? If it did, it might be your Achilles heel. How much was the ticket? Is it worth your time/travel/effort to fight it?

Good luck

[DTro]

Um yeah, I think you have a very good case and while I cannot fault the CO for doing what he is told, how are you supposed to know that it’s a handicapped spot? I’d be a little angered I think.

[McGurk]

PICTURES PICTURES PICTURES

That will make or break your case with regards to the sign, the markings, and the state of the "plowed" lot. Seems they could pop people all winter long in a minimally maintained lot.

[Colt_45]

3. Notice of Designation: Notice of such designation of accessible/handicapped parking spaces shall be given by the posting of signs designated in accordance with the requirements of the Manual of the Commissioner of Public Safety on Uniform Traffic Control Devices and the location, number and method of signing of such spaces is first approved by the Chief of Police. (Ord. 781, 5-10-76) (602.05B)

This is right off of a twin cities' parking code info. Not sure where you were but I would go to the state patrol or DNR, whoever has the most authority on your ticket or closer to you, and talk to them. My mom got a parking ticket, in wisconsin though, and she went right to the police station that was literally a block away. Long story short, she talked right to them and they voided right then and there. She was in the same general situation as you but it was a supposed loading zone.

I was always under the belief that it had to be on the ground and on a sign. Common sense would dictate this as we live in MN but common sense isn't common. Ignorance is no excuse but if they don't try to inform you, how you gonna know, Right?

Good point on the pics, hopefully today's snow does hinder a judge's view, or it would help too if it is minimum maintenance

[JimBuck]

I fought a similar ticket in court last Winter over a parking violation. As McGurk said, pictures w/ timestamp are gold in this kind of situation. Good luck!

[rcatcherman]

If it is not out of your way to fight the ticket I would. You never know what the judge will say. The ticket isn't going to go up in price. And I don't believe those are cheap tickets.

[Cheetah]

Some parking lots show handicap spots differently. Sometimes they have marked lines on the ground for loading zones. Other lots have none. I was at a restaurant recently that had a loading zone with two handicap signs, one on each side. The zone was between them. It was covered in ice and some guy parked there, though it was clear to me that it was probably not a parking spot.

[Pleasant]

Good luck with this.... I know it can be a expensive ticket...

I know the State of Minnesota defines a handicap parking space this way:

There are signs that, in accordance with state building code, identify a space as van accessible. These spaces include an eight-foot access aisle adjacent to the parking space.

Spaces reserved for automobiles require five-foot access aisles.

In both cases, the access aisle is part of the disability parking space.

As stated early this is just something we are supposed to know.

I think a warning would of been adequate.

[Jeremy airjer W]

I was always under the impression that a spot had to be clearly/properly marked on the ground and had to have a clearly/properly posted sign.

I got out of a no parking zone parking violation for improperly posted signage on behalf of the city. One sign was blocked by overgrowth and the other was spaced more than 100 feet away. The city ordinance was every 50 ft. I brought pictures and diagrams and measurements with me to the courthouse. The judge asked the prosecutor if he had anything and when the prosecutor admitted he was unprepared the judge literally rolled his eyes and dismissed the ticket.

[shnelson]

Thanks for the responses!

Makes me feel a little better about fighting this one. I did take some pictures, but didn't get any showing my truck parked there because he told me I could move it prior to issuing the ticket.

I didn't get a fine $ amount on the ticket, it just gives the court date and a number to call. He claimed that he contacted the Sheriff Is it worth me calling or bringing it by the sheriff's office ahead of time? The sign itself did not indicate a loading area or anything like that, just a typical handicap sign with an up to $200 fine (ouch, that's a lot of bait!). I plan on going back today or tomorrow to get some more clear pictures of the lot, hopefully it's uncrowded.

The real killer here is that the court date is set for when I was planning on being up on vermillion - gotta get my priorities straight here!

[DTro]

So wait, there was a sign? I thought there wasn't one.

I'm a little confused now.

IF there was a sign then you might be SOL

[KG243]

If there was a sign you are SOL.

[DTro]

Oh I get it now, I just reread your post.

For every handicapped parking area, there is a spot just to the right or the left of it desiganted for loading and unloading.

I can see where that might get confusing too, because the exact area is maked by lines on the ground, which in this case was covered by snow.

I would think that if you left a reasonable amount of space open for the handicapped spot, you should still have a case. Problem is that it's now your word against his as to where you were parked in relation to the sign and designated "loading" spot.

I'm afraid your case just got weaker

[Big Dave2]

So wait, there was a sign? I thought there wasn't one.

I'm a little confused now.

IF there was a sign then you might be SOL

The way I understand it, there was a sign on the handicap parking spot but he was parked in the loading zone next to the spot.

Edit: You beat me to it DTRO.

[JimBuck]

shnelson, was this in EP?

[T&KK]

Call into the court house and ask to talk to the district attorney and explain the situation. If they aren't busy, they will make the time to help you. It is possible, due to travel distance and the amount of evidence you present, that they may just handle it electronically. You need to have a pretty clear case of injustice for that to work, but worth a try. If they aren't willing to talk or won't take that stance, they likely will allow you to reschedule one hearing, but I would recommend doing that asap. The longer you wait, the more irritated they get with rescheduling... ie, better chance at losing your battle.

Good luck and if all else fails, go for the good ole fashion continuance for dismissal (aka no same or similar). If you don't get a ticket for a year, it will stay off your record.... or if you do get a ticket in a year, get that one to also be awarded the cont for dismissal. This does work. A buddy of mine had 15 tickets over 4 years and not a one were his record... all were under the stipulation that if another one went on your record then that one would also. The county ultimately wants to get money, and that is their way of doing it. By having the ticket on your record, they aren't making more, insurance companies are. If you are a good citizen, they will let you off if plan a and plan b don't work good luck

[Fishinguy40]

McGurk is right. Take pictures of the spot you were in. Make sure it shows that there is no sign posted and that the lines are covered by the snow.

Last year I got a ticket in St Paul when my wife and I went to the Irish fair on Harriet Island. We came out of the fair and there was a ticket on the windshield and a handicap sign sitting in a bucket of cement by the back corner of the car. This was not a permanent sign but signs they obviously put out for the fair. It wasn't there when we parked.

My wife and I went to court to fight it. Like we told the court officer, we figure kids or somebody was moving them around throughout the day. He waived the ticket but told us that in the future we should take a picture to help prove our point.

[Phred52]

As stated in the replies, PICTURES, PICTURES, PICTURES!!! And get them ASAP before the spot is cleared of snow! At the very best, a judge, seeing the photos, will throw the case out, next best would be a warning to you &/or a reduced fine. If the county is hurting for spending cash, well then you're 'sunk'. Regardless, DO take it to court! You deserve your chance to fight it. Phred52

[shnelson]

This was at the chisago/lindstrom lake channel access. Here's a crude diagram of the spaces:

_________

|o|x|x|o|

There were 4 spaces total, the o's were marked by a post, and the x's were marked by lines on the pavement (which I can't confirm as they were covered with snow and just took his word for it). It was very clear that there were 2 full spaces in between the marked signed. It was not clear (to me) that they were designated loading zone, and no sign had any indication that they were. I was backed into the bold X, the other guy was in the x next to it.

Any [PoorWordUsage] should be able to figure it out based on this area only having 4 spaces total, with posted spaces sandwhiching the other two in. I will admit that I was too excited to fish that morning to put common sense into the equation, but had this incident not happen to me I wouldn't think twice about parking there again. Now I'll make sure to park as far away as possible, just hope I don't get hit for unintentionally double parking .

[shnelson]

An additional note - the CO did tell me that the landing stays unmaintained through the winter with no plowing. Do you guys think it would help my case to get this in writing, and would I just contact the city for said note?

[Draven422]

First, there can't be a quota. It's against the law. However, I have seen where officers will get first shot at training for the number of citations they write. That's not a quota, but will drive some officers to write more.

Parking in a Handicap stall or transfer area is not a moving violation, so it won't be on your driving record. Also, as far as asking for a continuance, you have to have a clean record to start with.

I'm not sure what the surcharges or library fees are in Ramsey County (or wherever you were), but in Hennepin the total amount of the fine would be $212.

Good luck if you fight it. You probably have a good argument with the snow coverage, but it depends on what the judge is like too.

[shnelson]

I guess I have that going for me, my record is spotless - I have yet to be pulled over since I got my license almost 9 years ago. Not so much as a parking ticket either until this one!

What do they base the fine off of? The sign says up to $200, but I'm curious to know what dictates the amount?

You guys are being a great help, being this is my first time going through the system for an offense I'm really clueless on the whole process.

I will try to post the pictures tonight when I get home, I think hearing everyone's opinion on the site gives me a good indication of what to expect in the courtroom!

[Draven422]

The fine amount can be up to $200, but there are also surcharges and library fees. Remember when the seatbelt law changed back in June, and lots of places were saying the fine is only $25. Well, it is, but with the surcharge ($75) and the library fee brought it up over $100. Depending on how the county is setup, after all is said and done, it can be common to have a $278 price tag. ($200 for the fine, $75 for surcharge and $3 for library fee.)

Good luck.

[PierBridge]

You should be able to get the $200 fine reduced to around $75-100.