Ethics question

[fishuhalik]

Originally Posted By: buddha

I too wouldn't use someones stand on public property, but there are plenty of people who do and that is the problem.

I gotta play devils advocate on that loaded statement. I would argue that the problem lies with people who place permanent stands on public land and think that it somehow gives them exclusive rights to an area. Dont want someone using "your stand" use a portable or buy your own land.

And that's the problem. People just have no respect these days. Man, that sounds weird saying that, being that I'm only 25! There are many areas that I have scouted that had a tremendous amount of sign and left alone because I found evidence that someone else hunts the area. You hear about problems with people getting in fights and worse in the woods? It's because of this kind of attitude. Not the fact that someone else shot a deer in their area, it's the fact that no one has a code of conduct to follow anymore. Do I own the deer? No. Do I own the woods? No. Is there plenty of good, public land that you can find that you can have to yourself and save the trouble of these kinds of arguements? Yes. Just off the top of my head I can think of about a dozen different areas that I could hunt that I know no one else is going to go this year. Not because I spend alot of time in the woods (I use to) but because I do a little thing called studying. Plot maps, topo maps, etc., narrow down some good woods, spend an afternoon in the fall checking them out, etc. It's real easy to see someone drag a nice deer out of the woods and then just hunt their stands the following years. It actually takes some know-how to figure out for yourself how to actually scout and plan and take a nice buck.

[JacobMHD]

I pay taxes to the state for that land. I donate money to organizations to keep land like that public so that more people can enjoy hunting. I have dealt with people who felt the public land by their property was theirs. They intimidated me. I didn't hunt again for three years.

You should feel lucky that you were able to hunt it as long as you did without "interference". I would talk to the group and work out a solution. Otherwise you will be fighting this every year.

[Ray1]

As far as the public land and stands that are already there i would find a different spot but i do have the know how. Now there are some people that just like to get out and really dont know any better. And i would say that they have just as much of a right than the next person.

[John478]

Tear down your ilegal stands (if they are) and back pack your portable stand in there like the rest of that hunt public land have to do problem solved. I don't mean to sound harsh, I to live next to about a 250 acre WPA that borders my property, it has a nice about 50 acre woods,that always has a few deer in it this time ayear. I often tell people it would be a great place to hunt if I could keep every one else out of there. I would love to go in there and but up a few nice stands and cut a couble trails and shoting lanes but I don't cause its ilegel.

Feel my pain

A couble of weeks ago I obserbed a couble of deer grazing in a alfha field next to the woods two nights in a row. So the next day I was going to set up on the edge of the woods where I figured they where coming out. After hiking a 1/4 mile from my house, through chest high weeds, back packing my climing stand with a pack pack in with my gear in one hand and bow in the other hand, in 80 deg heat. I get to the edge of the woods and notice a guy pull up on the road and get out of his truck with his dog and shout gun (Dove hunter, I hate dove hunters) He looks like he's walking around the other side of the woods from me, so I thought I whould a least stand next to a tree for little while and see if he chased any thing to me, but after 4 or 5 shots and BBs raining down on the trees above me I headed home.

On Saturday Pheasant season opens, and after the groves of hunters and dogs cut though the woods every day the deer will be goon until sping.

But yet I'm still happy to have the public land to hunt

[96trigger]

You could also stand up to your neighbors and get out there early or put up stands next to your permanent ones. It would be confrontational, but as long as we are playing devils advocate, why do you have to be the better man? I think thats the problem with public land today, the jerk-baits know that the good and decent people will always leave to avoid confrontation. Maybe if more of us stood up for a piece of public ground to hunt, this would get better....... Yeah, right.

Yes, they have every right to sit there, but I still think that it is a low down, crappy thing to do to another hunter, let alone a neighbor. For those of you that are saying too bad, how many of you have had this situation happen to you? Just curious how you handled it, lets hear some first hand experiences.

If it has never happened to you, maybe think about how your would feel if someone showed up in a spot that you have hunted for years. I know it happens every year, and that those people have every right to do it, but that doesn't make it the right thing to do. If I ever did that to someone, I would apologize profusely for intruding on their hunt.

[SapperACE]

Are you serious dude?!... really?

Respect?!... are you kidding me? It would be one thing if these guys were sitting under your stand while you were sitting in it. That would be a little disrespectful. But someone using an existing stand on public land? I don't see that as disrespectful regardless of the situation. If they beat you to your illegal stand, the you should've got your a$$ out of bed a little earlier.

It's PUBLIC land. Get over it. Feel lucky you've gotten away with YOUR unethical behavior for as long as you have. Thats what this was about right...ethics? If there are so many other public places to hunt, then why don't you just go hunt there?

[Gofishleech]

You could also stand up to your neighbors and get out there early or put up stands next to your permanent ones. It would be confrontational, but as long as we are playing devils advocate, why do you have to be the better man? I think thats the problem with public land today, the jerk-baits know that the good and decent people will always leave to avoid confrontation. Maybe if more of us stood up for a piece of public ground to hunt, this would get better....... Yeah, right.

Yes, they have every right to sit there, but I still think that it is a low down, crappy thing to do to another hunter, let alone a neighbor. For those of you that are saying too bad, how many of you have had this situation happen to you? Just curious how you handled it, lets hear some first hand experiences.

If it has never happened to you, maybe think about how your would feel if someone showed up in a spot that you have hunted for years. I know it happens every year, and that those people have every right to do it, but that doesn't make it the right thing to do. If I ever did that to someone, I would apologize profusely for intruding on their hunt.

I was thinking I was the only one that saw it this way, very well put trigger!! I am supprized at the majority of responces here.

[jkcmj]

Although I have my Dad's nice farms to hunt in MN and WI, I have still tried to hunt public land. Around here I first tried some of the land close to home. The 1st land I tried was filled with cars and a fire going at 6am. A large family seemed to have encamped for the weekend. I tried another area I had scouted previously about 1/2 hour away, now getting prettly late morning, and after getting in the woods about a hundred yards, I see a guy waving at me from his stand. Where the heck was he parked? I gave up and went home. Guess I'll stay on the farm while it lasts before I joing the public land debacle.

[Surface Tension]

Since your neighbor has no problem with first come first served then they won't have any problem with you getting to the stand first.

If it were me I'd get a game plan with the neighbor and figure out where each one of you will be. Got a favorite stand everyone whats to sit in? Take turns. That is far better then a race to the stand in the morning which ends up with one or more of you turning around to find another stand that might or might not be occupied.

I'd be doing some additional scouting for spots to hang a portable for those times your not able to get into a perm stand. I'd keep my mouth shut about it as well.

[LoonASea]

Not every one that gets out deer hunting can be considered sportsman ,,,some never step in the woods to scout till opening morning ,,,to have expectations that every one that hunts deer live up to your sportsman ethics seems a bit unreasonable ,,,per the regs they aea required to wear blaze orange, have a valid licence , and obey tresspassing laws (and a few others) but I have never seen any thing in writing that states that a hunter has to check to see if other hunters are using or plan to use public land ,,,the roads are public also ,,do you expect every one to obey the speed limit ,,,signal their turns/lane changes and follow at a safe distance ,,,,some of the same people you see on the road will be out in the woods hunting,,,,,I have learned a long time ago that every time I have expectations I usualy get dissapointed

Enjoy your time in the woods and if your alone in the woods enjoy it even more

Good Luck

LAS

[buckx37x]

personally, i would not hunt in a stand i thought someone else was using. ya it is public land sadly that kinda means anything goes as far as some peoples ethics goes, to me the fun of the hunt is finding your on spot. reminds me of neighbors place we used to hunt well just me my boys were still to young. we new the family got permission to hunt huge woods, and big slough deer paridise. hunted it for maybe 3-4 yrs, then they asked if there boy who was now old enough could tag along with us i thought sure fun to teach a youngster how to, showed bedding areas, feeding areas, trails , rub lines i taught him well he got a doe first year he hunted, his dad took him out his first year . they didnt now how to gutit no problem ill teach em. you maybe guessed were this is gone, next year as usual i always ask permmission to hunt landno matter how long weve hunted it. well this year dad wants to hunt it with son and they may bring a friend, so no we cant hunt it anymore, buy no my boys were old enough to hunt with me, to say the lest i wasnt happy.

[96trigger]

Quote:

Respect?!... are you kidding me? It would be one thing if these guys were sitting under your stand while you were sitting in it. That would be a little disrespectful. But someone using an existing stand on public land? I don't see that as disrespectful regardless of the situation. If they beat you to your illegal stand, the you should've got your a$$ out of bed a little earlier.

Better get out there the night before, that way, they can see you in it because we all know how great the hunting is going to be after someone has been tromping around in the woods looking for a new place to go on opening morning.

Have we even deemed these stands ILLEGAL yet? In some areas permanent stands are legal. I am not sure where these stands are, and I don't think it was ever posted where. Also, was it illegal when they put the stands up, sounds like they are very old, but well kept.

All I am saying is that I personally, would not go to a public land spot that I know someone is planning on hunting. I would never try and BEAT them out to their stand. I would never try and interfere with their hunt. Isn't that the bigger question here? Yes, I would have every right to do that on public land, but it doesn't make it the sportsmanlike, or even human thing to do. I'm not a big fan of people not being decent human beings because they can hide behind a fact that its public land. We ALL pay taxes in this state, we ALL like to enjoy hunting and pay for our tags. Too bad we ALL can't just get along.

[Buckcountry]

How about just accept the fact everyone in different and we all hunt and think differently about ethics and our opinions. I get a kick out of people who argue and think they are right and everyone else is wrong with there thoughts. hunting is supposed to be fun, if you are not having fun then find something else to do. If you are hunting public land you are going to have to share, that's reality. Buy your own land if then you will not have to worry about anyone else and you can hunt when, how you want. Most people pay taxes so everyone has the right to the land if it's public and there are people out there that don't care if they [PoorWordUsage] you off, life is not perfect, deal with it! If you are going to [PoorWordUsage] and complain, find private land or another hobby.

[96trigger]

Still alot of people saying deal with it. No persoanl experiences? Did anybody even think about what it would be like if it were them? Have we degraded our self so far in an entitlement society that we no longer even think about our fellow sportsman and women? Has it really gotten to the point where we have to play a game with another to see who gets there first? Needless to say, I find that very disappointing, and yes, I do hunt on public land.

Fishuhalik, I'm sorry bud, but you have three choices.

#1. Talk to your neighbors, try and work something out where you share the spots.

#2. If that doesn't work, stand your ground, and go out there regardless, probably going to have a bad year of hunting, but put your foot down that you are NOT moving.

#3. Cut down your stands and move to a different location.

What you decide is up to you, but let us know what happens, I'm curious to hear how this all plays out.

[UdeLakeTom]

Our neighbors and our group have land that borders state land. The land is a school trust land and therefore does not apply to the permanent stand rule. The stands have been in the woods for over 25 years also. They are repaired when needed, sometimes by both groups. We are in zone 1 and have 3 weekends to hunt. The agreement was that both groups could hunt the woods.

The original builders of the stands would use those stands whenever they were in camp. If nobody was in camp, the stands were fair game.

The best part, even though the plot maps show the woods as state property, most assume that the woods are part of either ours or the neighbors land.

Every few years we have a newbie that will show up. A couple of the stands can be seen from open areas. If somebody is there, oh well. We move on to another stand. We have 7 permanent stands and 3 portables for 5 hunters, and that doesn't include the ones on state property.

Maybe just build a couple more stands, if the area is that big.

[Cheetah]

Permanent stands on public land? You're already breaking the law, doesn't matter how long they have been there.

[96trigger]

In some places permanent stands are not illegal. They just become part of the land, and are owned by the state. I don't think it was ever clarified if these stands were legal or not.

[NoWiser]

I'm sure glad I don't hunt around a lot of people on this board. When I was taught to deer hunt the way you did it was to find a good looking area that you wanted to hunt, hang your orange vest in a tree, and walk circles out from there looking for signs of other hunters. If you saw new flags or a permanent stand, you moved on. It was public land and I had every right to hunt these spots, but common courtesy said keep going and find your own area. I actually liked it more when permanent stands were legal in the areas I hunted. Now its a shot in the dark when you hike out opening morning with a stand on your back whether or not it will get light and you'll see another hunter 100 yds away. What I've noticed lately is that people think that just because they pay taxes and have the right to hunt public land, they also have the right to be complete jerk-baits to everyone else who use it and then use the defense "its public land, if you don't like it move or buy your own land." Pretty sad.

Good luck Fishuhalik, I feel for you. Who wants to shoot a deer out of someone else's stand anyways? What is the satisfaction in that?

[96trigger]

NoWiser,

Amen Brotha......I couldn't agree with you more. I'm surprised at some of the responses on this thread.

[Bear55]

The real problem is everyone is kind of right from a certain perspective. Like I said years ago this was an unwritten rule and everyone followed it and everyone got along. However, we have to realize that times are changing. It is public land and those deer stands are public property. What is happening is there isn't as much land available to hunt as their use to be. Development, people puchasing land, and access to private land have all changed dramatically in the past 20 years. This puts all the more pressure on the public land. Looking forward I can already see perm stands being illegal everywhere and everyone will be using portables, first come first serve will rule. In my opinioni I like the old unwritten rule days, there is still lots of public land out there to find your own little area, however I do understand that public land is public land and why should I be able to claim an area for my own.

Us old school hunters might have to learn to play by a new set of rules down the road, maybe even giving up on land that we have hunted for years just to get away from the crowds.

[elkhuntingfan]

I hunt Sherburne Refuge. We have hunted there for about 25 years. All the guys in our group have their own spot. We also know of guys in other groups that hunt in "their" spots on a yearly basis. We always stay away from the spots we know they usually sit. There aren't any permanent stands, but we know they'll be putting portables up in their spot so we respect that. One guy from another group hunts a funnel leading out to a big swamp. He gets a buck out of there pretty much every year. We could try to beat him to his spot, but that just doesn't seem right. He hunts it every year so we respect that. We know its public land, and we don't assume we will get our spots every year. We try to get there early and have an alternate spot if need be. It works well and we all enjoy the hunt. When other guys have started hunting a spot I usually hunt, I just get up earlier and beat them to the spot.

[Shack]

Quote:

When I was taught to deer hunt the way you did it was to find a good looking area that you wanted to hunt, hang your orange vest in a tree, and walk circles out from there looking for signs of other hunters.

Good post NoWiser I just know I would get shot or see a CO if I did that DH'ing now

[Walleye Guy]

To me it sounds like the neighbors hunt this land because its productive but also because you have made it pretty convenient for them. Take away the convenience part and they may leave.

In my opinion your options are the following:

-Take down the permanent stands completely and hunt out of portables

-Get out of bed earlier and beat them to the stands every day that you hunt

-Go hunt the other spot that you set up for them on the other land. You seemed to think it was good enough for them and you understand where to hunt under all conditions.

-Avoid a confrontation under all the circumstances. Its not worth it.

[WaveWacker]

If I'm correct permanents are illegal on STATE forest land but not on NATIONAL forest land.

[Getanet]

WaveWacker - this is what I was able to find in the books: "The regs book says it's illegal to build a permanent stand on WMA's and State Parks. As for State Forests, portable stands are "encouraged" but I can't find anything where it's illegal."