Scopes on Muzzleloaders

[helpme]

What are your thoughts on scopes on muzzleloaders during muzzleloader season? YEA or NEY!!!

[jeffreyd]

I think if you get a good quality scope that is made for the shock from the loader, it is not bad. i looked at a Habicat or Swarovski. I would be afraid a cheap scope would not take the abuse. I am a full swarovski hunter, i know the expense but only want to buy one in a life time.

[vister]

i say no thanks. i know muzzleloaders are a primitive method of hunting, but we are at huge advantages already with the use of pelleted powder, primers, and the bullets and sabots that we are shooting. would a scope be nice on a muzzleloader? yes it would be. would i use one if the laws allowed us to, probably not. because if it could be scoped, then why not just be able to use the ruger no. 1 7mm in the gun cabinet? which is a single shot.

[Jameson]

nay.

I admit that it is a flip-flop from my stance in the past. Blame it on old age. IMO restrict the archery and muzzleloader regulations so that only the dedicated sportsmen will be attracted to them.

[jeffreyd]

I think both the archery and muzzleloader folks are in a niche market. Here is az we can look at the number of tags for rifle compared to the other two. it is far less for achery and even smaller for muzzle. So using a muzzleloader with a scope is not going to change the distance, only give the user a clear target than open sights. I like both, and would support the use if it ever came up.

[helpme]

What about a minimal magnification?

[BRULEDRIFTER]

No scopes!

With todays Muzzies, there is very little difference between them and a single shot rifle. If you want to use a muzzy with a scope, then use it during the regular firearms season.

I like that idea, too, of keeping it raw enough so only the dedicated partake.

[Bear55]

Put me on the NEY side! There is no point of having a separate season if you are going to put a scope on and shoot 200+ yards with a muzzy.

Its a traditional wheapon and I say keep it old school and open sites. I think you can have a zero or 1 power scope now but I would rather just stay away from scopes in general.

[Swap Buck]

Put my name on the "NEY" side also. They are already to modern and I am very accurate out to 100yds as it is. I just wish that darn woods rat was as easy to hit as a 100yrd target. No need for scopes on muzzleloaders during that season.

[Archerysniper]

No for me also, I use mine during the slug season and still do not use a scope.

[fishmon]

I would be in the ney column as well modern muzzeloaders resemble the traditional ones in name only, in full disclosure I do have a 1x red dot on mine.

[96trigger]

yes in any intensive harvest zone. No in any area other than that.

[helpme]

Lou, do you have any comments?

[PerchJerker]

I'd vote yes ..... and I say yes because we already allow pelleted propellants (that are not black powder), jacketed sabot bullets, shotgun primers, etc etc etc. Since all those things are already allowed I don't understand why the line was drawn at scopes.

A scope doesn't make a gun shoot farther or straighter or flatter --- it allows the shooter to do a better job of aiming. All the other things I mentioned like the propellants, shotgun primers, sabot bullets etc. improve the performance of the actual gun itself.

I've muzzleloader hunted out west in open country for whitetails and muledeer. Scopes were allowed out there and I'm really glad I had one. Where I hunt in MN and WI scopes are not allowed and the shooting distances are usually a lot closer .... but I'd still use a scope if I could.

For the people that want to keep it a "primitive" hunt and use that as a reason for not allowing scopes ----- I'd like to see a blackpowder only season - no primers, no modern propellants or bullets. But I doubt if enough guys would hunt in that season to make it worth while????

Also, I understand the argument that if you want to use a scope on your ML then hunt in the regular firearm season ..... the problem with that is I have other guns I like to use too, and wouldn't be able to use them if I used my ML in the firearms season.

[vister]

just put a scope on your muzzy and use it instead of a shotgun during firearms season. if we are able to put scopes on our muzzleloaders, then why even have a seperate season? with a scope, they are by far more accurate out to greater distances than any shotgun made. the only downside is we are limited to one shot...most of the time. leave the ML season scopeless! open sights and one shot make people definetely think about squeezing that trigger.

[RS]

Ney all the way! That is the main reason I started muzzleloader hunting. Less hunters in the woods and for us (me)that hunt public land it is a treat not to have the woods full of hunters. Which in the past 5 years the muzzy population has grown.

Perchjerker--I do agree with you that a scope makes you aim better, but without it you are not going to take many shots over 100 yds. I know my muzzy could probably easily kill at 300 yds. (Never tried it) with a scope and to me that takes away from the true nature of muzzleloading. Yes, we are using inline rifles and high power propellants and bullets, but we still only (most of the time) have one shot with iron sights and have to have a pretty good aim at short range also. Good luck to everyone this fall!!

[jabug]

if the dnr is going to make one choose to use a doe permit in lottery areas then why should it be such a bad idea to let someone put a scope on their muzzy so they have a better chance to fil their tag. if was stil anything goes i might have a slightly different thoughtbut if you choose muzzy season to get your deer then you should get the best chance possible to suceed

[lcornice]

Lou, do you have any comments?

Heck no, I'm not getting in the middle of this one! The only thing I'll say is opinions are varied and well represented on this board. It's also one of those issues that has gathered Legislative interest. If you follow the legislature you know there are individuals in the House and Senate who have very strongly held opinions on this issue (from both sides). Typically, the Senate introduces a scopes bill and the House counters with a sidelock only season. A couple of years ago they settled on banning smokeless powder in muzzleloaders (don't ask how that happened). Typically, both provisions are removed in conference committee and the end result is no change.

The agency hasn't taken an official stance because of the legislative interest. Basically, if we made the change it would likely be changed again in statute when the Legislature came back in session.

[helpme]

Thanks Lou, your input is always appreciated.

[lakevet]

NAY

If you truly have vision problems you can get a permit to hunt muzzleloader season with a scope after doctors recommendation. Tony Knight's argument about older eyes not focusing well enough to use open sights doesn't work either. My good friend who is an eye doc says just use a peep sight. That rear sight is supposed to be fuzzy as you just focus on the front sight. I think it is part of the hunt to see that trophy standing broadside just out of your effective range. Believe me I have been there. Instead of thinking "Man I wish I had a scope!", you should be thinking "Man, how can I out wit that animal?" That is the challenge you take on when muzzleloading in my opinion.

lakevet

[vister]

excactly. modern muzzleloaders are accurate, and efficient, however, remaining scopeless makes it much more challenging! may require a little bit of calling to the deer, or vacating your stand to begin the stalk to get within range. whats wrong with that? i would think both options definetely crank up the intensity of the hunt!!!

[PerchJerker]

excactly. modern muzzleloaders are accurate, and efficient, however, remaining scopeless makes it much more challenging! may require a little bit of calling to the deer, or vacating your stand to begin the stalk to get within range. whats wrong with that? i would think both options definetely crank up the intensity of the hunt!!!

I agree with everything you say.

But I still don't understand why the line was drawn at scopes on muzzleloaders.

Under your reasoning why not ban scopes on shotguns, handguns and/or rifles .... they are accurate and efficient firearms and if you took away the scopes it would make it more challenging and might require more calling or stalking. Why should MLs be treated any different than other modern firearms?

[fishmon]

scopes on muzzleloaders are not the discussion, the discusion is based on the fact that muzzleloders have a special season only because of the semi primitive function of their operation, allowing them to be scoped is just one step further away from their primitive roots thus eliminating the distinction that allows them a special season in the first place.

[Gordie]

No scopes, I like it the way it is. I am firm beliver in haveing a scope on a rifle or a shotgun for deer but during muzzel loader season I go to the iron sights and do it the way I was taught as a boy ande I reaaly enjoy drawing a bead with iron sights on a deer when the smomke clears hopefully find a blood trail.

I started blackpowder hunting with a percusion cap and not the 209 shotgun primmer now I have an inline witn a 209 primmer and think that I might try a flint lock this year to really get back to the real primitive aspect of the hunt.

[slabchaser]

I do muzzy hunt along with bow hunt and i dunno about the rest of you but where i hunt, the deer are soo scared by the time muzzy season comes around that they sit in thick cover and dont come out unless they are chased or its dark. It is also a shotgun zone so I wouldnt mind being able to use a scope. OR they could run their season like iowa. there is a early muzzy season for residents only in oct. I think the dnr should promote muzzy hunting. You still have one shot. You give us a less desirable season then everyone els, why not cater to the muzzy hunters?