Becoming a guide

[metro fisherman]

Dont you need a USCG "six-pack" to take up to six paying customers out? Ive heard that the captains license test is much harder than a pilots license. If anyone's done this and knows for sure id be interested to hear about the course (i wanna take it). A different angle might be to work your way up by trying to "first mate" on a larger charter or launch boat.

[Tim_Anderson]

Some good stuff here...

Guiding is something that I pondered for many years. Here's some of my thoughts.

In my case, I was obsessed with fishing for as long as I can remember. As I grew up, guiding was always something that I wanted to do, but sometimes we get taken away from our true desires by what life throws at us. I eventually got to it...but definitely wish that I would have started earlier. But hey, life is a journey right?

Guiding can be very grueling. You have a short window, and you need to "make hay while the sun is shining". So sometimes you are doing back to back full day trips. Musky and pike trips. Walleye trips. Bass trips. Night fishing. Serving people and fishing hard for 20 hours a day in the peak of the summer, or during that August full moon. Sometimes you go a week at a time, and then you finally get a day off and you collapse and try to catch up on some sleep.

OR, you saddle up and go fishing with your friends on your day off!

There is the one biggest thing that helped me decide to do this. I eluded to it earlier.

Desire.

After that grueling week, I still wake up every morning wanting to fish. I have honestly never had a "bad egg" for a client. Have never had that feeling that I want to quit. I really enjoy people, and every day brings new opportunities. And once again, this is something I always wanted to do. I never get tired of it, even though at times my body is screaming for a rest.

For me, the decision to guide came more from the heart than the intellect. Making a living was secondary. The primary reason went way deeper than that. I look at it as more of a purpose. This is what I am supposed to be doing. This is what I thrive on. This is what makes me "come alive".

So, that is my experience, and my best advice for you. If this is something that you are wanting to do, you will know it by how much desire you have. Without the desire, guiding could just burn you out on fishing, and that would be a shame. You don't want this to be "just a job." Hope that makes sense.

If there is one thing in this world that you could do for a living, would it be guiding? If the answer is "yes", then you'd better get after it!

That aside, there's just a few basic/practical things that I would re-iterate. It does take years to build. You can get by with basic gear to begin with to conserve on money. You really need to plan on having another BETTER source of income until the time is right to jump in full bore.

You will be faced with tough decisions. To what extent will you share your knowledge and your spots? What do you really believe in as far as ethics go, and protecting the resource? How will you market and advertise? How will you handle fortune and fame if it should come your way?

The internet is an incredibly powerful thing. Many of us have seen it abused big time. How can we as guides and fishermen alike use it productively without altering the current dynamics of the resource? I'm talking about fishing pressure, harvest...issues like that? These are all difficult questions. Touchy subjects as well.

You are getting some good advice all through this thread. Hopefully it is helping you with your decision one way or the other. Good luck in whatever you do.

[Northlander]

I looked into guiding on the St .Louis River and Lake Superior. After all the captains licenses, coasrt guard classes, insurance etc etc it wasnt worth my time. I would be way better off working OT at my job.

Ill just keep fishing as a hobby.

Its funny how many people I see who think they can guide a body of water with very little knowledge of it. I see so many fly by night outfits its crazy. These guys are the ones who dont have the proper insurance and licenses.

make sure you do your homework when you get a guide. Ask for proof of insurance, past clients #'s, years experience on the body of water, success rate and cancelation policy.

Bet is if a guide has been around for 10 or more years he has been pretty good.

[jwmiller33]

northlander---what do you mean by "fly by night outfits"?

[ozzie]

Its funny how many people I see who think they can guide a body of water with very little knowledge of it. I see so many fly by night outfits its crazy. These guys are the ones who dont have the proper insurance and licenses.

I think his statement pretty much sums up what he meant....

[gregg52]

just a thought about the economy

as i was thinkin about this venture (guiding)

the one thing i have noticed over the winter when we go snowmobiling if we want a room some where on the week end

you better call a head of time because they fill fast

i live in the brainerd area motels here seem to be doing

do fine had some freinds come up and they stayed at

the holiday inn in town rooms were all over 100 for a night but the place was full

so i think the economy might be in your favor as people are staying close not spending the 1500-2000 on trips

just a thought

[Northlander]

Originally Posted By: Northlander

Its funny how many people I see who think they can guide a body of water with very little knowledge of it. I see so many fly by night outfits its crazy. These guys are the ones who dont have the proper insurance and licenses.

I think his statement pretty much sums up what he meant....

Exactly. These ones are the ones that dont last.

[jigginjim]

Every one is dead on, I started 13yrs ago, you will still need that extra job for extra money.

#1. Hire a GOOD attorney

#2. A very good tax person.

#3. then you can start looking at gear, equipment, and such.

Remmember if you pick-up clients that costs extra on your truck insurance.

We're showing you alot of the things you will have to deal with.

Not mentioned is other guides, in your area that have been doing it for sometime.

[Sandmannd]

Minnesota Boatman is dead on with his 14 points. You need to do all of that.

Dont you need a USCG "six-pack" to take up to six paying customers out? Ive heard that the captains license test is much harder than a pilots license. If anyone's done this and knows for sure id be interested to hear about the course (i wanna take it). A different angle might be to work your way up by trying to "first mate" on a larger charter or launch boat.

You do not need the "six-pack" to guide in MN on the majority of waters. I know you do for the Croix and the Sippi. There may be other bodies, but I'm not sure of them in the metro area. If you are guiding on Waconia, you don't need one. I called the DNR on this.

I don't know how hard the test is, I'll be finding out next month. There is a class in the cities the last two weeks in April and the first week of May. It's a 60 hour course. I do know you get three tries at the test. The captain I spoke with that is giving the course is very confident that folks are going to pass. He has a percent that do. He's the same guy that is doing a course at Woody's. I also spoke to Woody and he said the class is very good and most everyone passes. You're looking at around $700 for the class, plus a drug test, physical and CPR training. Not cheap but it's good for 5 years and then it's $75 to maintain every five years. You need 360 days on the water to qualify and you need to maintain that every five years. That is 70 days a year.

[Ed Carlson]

Maybe....Consider going under the wing of an established guide/outfitter, get your insurance and licenses and certifications as needed...and any/all safety training you can.... and see how it then feels to you and if you still feel you are a good fit to be a guide, or not.

Lots of great anglers think they are guide material...but quickly discover they are not right for the job. Some screw up there fishing enjoyment to the point they hate fishing because they forced themselves to guide and it was a poor fit for them, so be aware of that too.

It is a worthy avocation, and a whole lot of work and hours off the clock. Most folks seldom grasp how much work guiding really is.

The Coast Guard Captains 6-pack and towing certification is a tough deal, but do-able...I made it through it so most anyone can if they study. With the help of Tylenol, and coffee, I managed to get'r done.

If you do decide to get into it, good luck to you, I wish you well.

[Sandmannd]

Buck Killer, you know how to get a hold of me. Blast me an email please.

[Ice-King]

Now now children I think its time to quit whining like little school girls and get back on track with the subject.

The way it sounds you plan on fishing mostly metro area lakes. The one problem I see with becoming a guide in the metro area is that your going to have competition. Just off the top of my head I know of at least a 1/2 dozen guides in this area. Thats just a low ball figure I know there is more that I am unaware of. And I know 4 different guides alone that fish Waconia.If your going to become a guide you better be prepared to compete against the others. There all trying to do two things one is to put money in there pocket and two is to increase customers while keeping them happy. You should have great communication skills and knowledge and like talking to people because your going to need it when your trying to inform clients about fishing techniques.

I agree if you plan on guiding on lakes you better have at least 3-4 hardcore years of fishing on those lakes. This would include winter and summer. I fish 60-80 days a winter and god only knows how much time I put in during the summer. It takes a lot of time on the water to figure everything out and you have to keep at it because every year is different weeds,fish patterns,water, lure presentations,etc for the most part change. I fish Waconia really hard in the winter for walleyes. I am literally out there every day thats all I fish for on that lake in the winter and from my experience I can pretty much most of the time get on walleyes. Due I guide NO if your wondering why its because I don't need people following me around on that lake during the winter. I would hate to have someone know what my fish house looks like or a renter saving my spots on his gps. The same goes for the summer I dont want people marking my spots where I know I can go out and catch walleyes and muskies. I work to hard to give it to someone else.

You also should be prepared with having good equipment. I would hope you have a boat equipped with up to date good electronics and so on. Your boat should be able to handle the water when it gets rough out. If you plan on doing fish house guiding I hope you have a nice house that people would feel comfortable in. I know I wouldn't want to be in a 7x8 skid house with bare insides if I hired a guide.

Marketing,commuincation,keeping your clients, and staying on fish are all keys when becoming a guide.

Also ask yourself do you think you could take it if you went out with clients and weren't able to put them on fish? Not trying to shoot your dreams down just throwing in some of todays ideas for guiding qualifications.

[Ed Carlson]

You cannot put a price on doing something you love for a living, but be prepared to find out that what you do for a living you may no longer love.

Some things are best left as a hobby or pastime.

Having said that, don’t let anyone tell you that you can’t, you can only find that out for yourself.

Well put!

[Bassboy1645]

Guiding would be my dream job as well...ever since I was a lil kid. I "guide" my buddies and their girlfriends, buddies parents, my own girfriend ect, but this is just "oh fishing would be fun or i wanna catch some fish for once" so I take them out no charge or allright chip n for gas and bait or pay me with a couple beers later type deal. And it really works out well for me. We usually catch fish and they have fun. So I think I would fit the guide thing but finances are another issue. I cant afford food being in college let alone gas half the time in the summer! the gear I have is the best I can afford which is good and alot of times actually more then I truly can afford. but I could never cover replacing gear or buying top of the line stuff or at least yet. As of now a breakdown in my truck would halt my fishing as it takes weeks to save up usually. but if I could over come the obstacles I truly feel I have the desire and the will to guide. I know im a better fisherman then lots of ppl but for now im never convinced im as good as need to be to guide. so for now its just a dream and Im fishing as much as I can to hopefully fufill that dream one day.

[Eric Wettschreck]

When I was a teenager (just a couple years ago ) my passions were the outdoors, scuba diving, and drag racing. Yeah, I know, weird combo. I knew I'd never make it anywhere in the NHRA, and toyed with becoming a commercial diver, and thought about becoming a CO/park ranger/USFG dude/guide/etc. Then, my crabby dad told me something I'll never forget.....When your hobby becomes your job it won't be a hobby anymore. So, I joined the Navy.

Not trying to discourage you, but something you need to remember as it was good advice.

I've had many many many people tell me that I should start up a small guide service type thing around my area. I thought about it for a while and decided not to, and here are the reasons why.

1. The times I've gone fishing and didn't catch much far outnumber the times I went fishing and caught a lot.

2. I don't like running the boat on real windy days.

3. My boat isn't "Guide worthy."

4. I like kids, but kids don't like me.

5. My wife says I'm not the most patient guy on the planet.

6. I understand that just because I know some local lakes very well doesn't make me guide caliber.

7. I don't want to make fishing work. I want to go fishing to relax.

I'm not trying to discourage you from living your dream. In fact, I feel if it's your passion then you should find a way and go for it. I have the utmost respect for the people who have the moxy to go out on their own, do the hard work, and start their own business. Personally, I don't have that kind of moxy and will forever slave away for "The man."

As for me, I've decided I would rather just go fishing with my friends, and I've even taken out a few total strangers that I've met through FM, just for fun and leave it at that. But, this is just me. I've also fished with guys that I thought would make great guides and I've fished with guides I thought should sell thier boat. On the flip side, I've fished with guides that came highly recommended and had a whale of a good time on the lake with them.

I have no clue about the business end of guiding and I'm not going to pretend to. In the end you have to ask yourself how hard you're willing to work at it. Nothing is quick and easy but hard work and determination will take a guy a long way.

One thing you may want to try, if you have not already, is take some people out fishing that have never fished before a few times. When the day is done ask yourself if you had a good time and if you could do this 200 times a year.

What ever you decide to do, best of luck to you and I hope you become very successful.

[guideman]

Just a comment on the "Back to back full days" comment. I have done streches of 20 to 25 back to back full days. One or 2 trips a week ain't full time guiding, that's part time.

The summer guiding season here in MN is at most, about 150 days and that is streching it into November. I had to laugh at the 80k a year number that was thrown out. I am one of the busiest guides on Lake Vermilion and I do about 110 to 120 trips a year, many of them are just half days. So we are talking closer to 30K or 40k in reality.

I don't know more than just a handful of guides that make a real living wage, by doing nothing but guiding for a living. With expences that 30 or 40K is more like 20 or 25K.

last summers gas prices were costing me $80 to $100 a day in fuel, just to go to work.

If you can't work almost evey day, you may as well do it part time and get a job. Because you won't get rich guiding, even if you are well established. The one thing nobody has mentioned yet, is you wife or girlfriend, better be a very understanding women.

"Ace"

Ace guide service.

[Capt. Don*]

There was a big change in the way the USCG tests are administered a few years back. It used to be the CG gave the test, not the teachers, it was a lot harder then, not that its now easy by any means. The big thing about going for a license is to be absolutely certain that you qualify for it. The class and test will be given to you regardless of whether the USCG finds you qualified. These classes in the old days weren't available unless the USCG first allowed you to sit for the test, now the schools grab your money, get you passed the test and send you packing. Make sure you have your physical, with all the USCG required data, drug test from a USCG approved tester, sea time forms, all sent in and approved by the USCG before you take a class or test, or you could end up having a worthless certificate from the school.

Then,after you get your license, you will need a TWIC card, work for someone who has, or if self employed, have and maintain a USCG approved drug testing program, not just take a drug test every 5 years. To renew at the end of 5 years you will need 360 8 hour days on the water or take an open book test, another physical, another drug test or had a random within 3 months. This is way more than $70.

Good luck with your test, you may want to strongly consider a masters license over a six-pack, it will really open up the possibilities of maritime work down the road if you were so inclined.

[guideman]

Minnesota does not require you to get a licence unless you guide on a federally controled waterway, or a boarder water.

Lake of the Woods, Rainy, the Mississippi. leech, Winnie or any lake that is a part of the Missssippi watershed. or any river with a federal dam on it.

Otherwise all inland lakes are open to anyone to guide on if they wish. The "six pack" law is for charters that carry more than 5 anglers in their boats on a regular basis, for money. It is getting tougher to get guide insurance that is affordable. Many states now do require a captains certificate to get insurance, not here in Minnesota however.

There are some companys out there that specialize in guide and tournament insurance. They are the ones to go with, not the same guy that does your car insurance. Tournament and guide insurance policies are similar, you should be able to get it for less than $1000 a year. Depending on how many trips you do per year and what your boat is worth.

Keep this in mind that once you start to use your boat and equipment for making money you

are no longer covered by your regular boat or homeowners insurance policy while you are on the water. Welcome to the world of professional guiding.

"Ace"

Ace guide service.

[Capt. Don*]

Pretty much on the money, except for six pack. A license has really nothing to do with numbers of people. A license is required anytime you are using a boat and charge for it on federal waters. Six pack is "operator of uninspected passenger vessels" which can carry a maximum of 6. Master license is for inspected vessels that carry numbers determined by the USCG when the veesel is built or modified. Good things to know if one is going to guide on any of the lakes or waters you mentioned.

[WingDing2]

I had illusions of grandure about guiding myself...and have chosen to keep it a hobby rather than try to "earn a living" doing something I am passsionate about.

I really dont like fishing when it's windy LOL

I know alot of guides on LOW and it's a job... just like the one we all go to everyday.

[Random guy]

Many great comments form many of the long time guides in the business, some very well written posts. Now we have heard many sides of the guiding gig, I will tell you mine as I make my entire living from guiding, an oddity.

Now I am one of very few that guiding is all I do for a living. Granted I have some little gigs on the side that make some fun money but that is what they are; money for weekday hunting trips or maybe my new ipod or even a nice set of shoes for date night. Aside form the money, insurance, lawyers and dealing with promotional stuff full time guiding for sole income takes a hard toll on your lifestyle if you plan to have one outside of it. For example I am a single guy, I have been married twice, both wives left because “I fish to much”. I do not leave my home town for months at a time. From May through September I best be on the lake either pre fishing for clients or fishing with clients or I will go broke. September I need to be looking for bear or I will go broke. October I take what trips I can find and a little time for hunting then November through April I am working on ice houses, welding up plows, looking for fish, plowing roads to fish or taking care of anglers on the ice or I will go broke. This starts with opening roads in the AM, changing toilet bags in the afternoon and the evenings are spent taking care of just about anything you can imagine. In December I buy enough groceries for three months because I know I will not have time to make the forty mile run for groceries until the walleye season closes. April should be for rest but ice gear needs to be repaired and stored, shacks put away and the boat has to be ready for sturgeon fishing trips in mid April. Not to mention the hours spent on the phone with equipment suppliers, newspapers, forums, sports shows and promotional work along with lining up the falls bear hunters. It is a vicious cycle that few truly see. Not to mention you may think your day is done when the boat is docked…wrong. The office phone has been ringing all day with a stack of messages you try to call back but the phone rings sometimes until midnight with sportsmen looking for trip information or just prodding for information because “you are a guide”. I have answered three calls so far while typing this and it is currently 10:03 pm, none of them booking trips but just looking for advice. It is a brutal lifestyle behind the shiny boat and button up fishing shirts. You become the job and a social life is hard pressed, no time for dinners, vacations or anything on the weekend with your buddies as Saturday is hump day.

Now I was able to step into guiding as a primary income basically because I was born into it. My family has worked the lake for over 100 years, that’s 100 years of PR and 100 year book of business. We have had some good times and many tough times such as the walleye collapse. That will shake you to the bone, your resource and income is taken from you no matter what you could have done. You have zero assurance and zero unemployment when the bottom falls out. You better be as fluid as the water you work, the kids will get hungry when the fish are gone. I had to pack up and go be a banker for few years while the fish came back, you need to become a creature of the wind when you rely on mother nature for your income. As Ace said you need to be good no matter what is going on. One bad trip equals the PR of twenty good trips no matter what conditions you are dealing with.

Now do I love it, yes I do. I get to go fishing with great people from across the nation. I have had cigars with major corporate executives, had clients thank me with an honesty that can not be denied, watched terminally ill people reel in their last fish and I have seen kid’s eyes light up at the mystery of a disappearing bobber. It is a very rewarding job as long as you do not need lots of money to be truly happy. If you look through the ranks many of the guides above live a decent life because they are very good at what they do but I would bet if you get the chance to sit down and ask them what it took to get to that point they could all tell you stories of tough times and how they often wondered when they would get to sleep and how they are going to pay the gas bill.

It is a dream just as becoming a CEO of a major company, becoming a doctor, lawyer or other hard achieved profession. You can make it work but it takes a long time and a lot of dry years before you can say “Hey I finally paid off the boat, now I need a new one”

[FishGUY]

Great post Jonny P, the behind the seens look of being a guide.

[Sandmannd]

Johnny, that was an awesome post. Thanks for sharing your story.

[Wayne Ek]

Johnny P. that about sums it up. I wish I could say I paid the boat off, but everytime it happens it seems like a good time to add one additional boat to the small fleet growing in the yard.

[LindellProStaf]

This has been fun and interesting to follow. Boy what great advise and information. Can be applied to many facets of life. I used to love horses. I quit a great job to manage a horse stable. Not near as much money but what I wanted to do. I was single so it was only me to take care of. Well it was fun for a couple of years and then I got tired of it. The lack of money, the lack of free time, no benefits, questionable future, what if my health fails. Those things do matter. Well I sold my horses as I was tired of them now. I didn't even want to talk horses and it was my passion before. Well it took years but I finally am back to having 2 of them again. Her is my point and others have mentioned it too. Make sure you can handle this without taking the fun out of something you love. I don't regret doing what I did, but it did change things!!! Good luck in whatever you do...