Moving the Firearm Season

[96trigger]

I don't think that if we had more nice 8's and 10's running around, that people would be complaining and saying that we should let them get older. I truly don't. I understand your "give and inch, take a mile" stance, but I don't think many of us would say that. I would be very content if I saw a few more 2.5-3.5 year old 8's and 10's. Most of us would probably have them on the wall because thats what most of us have on the wall right now. The restriction would allow 2 things, it would make people better identify the deer that they are shooting and think twice about pulling the trigger. We have to do that with pheasants, ducks, etc.. so I don't know why it would be such a big deal with antlers. 2nd, I think if that happened, the number of true "trophy" hunters that would want all the B&C bucks, would have a much smaller voice, making the majority of meat hunters, and those that want to see more mature bucks, one, much larger voice. I think the majority of the people right now, are just saying, can we please let the forks and small baskets walk. Thats all, nothing more, give them a little time to grow and get a little wiser. It might suck the first year or two, but that would be it, after that, it could be great.

[Musky Buck]

Whatever direction we go we go, our 25 hunters already practice go/grow, rookies in our group can take whatever they are willing to gut out. Once they have had the experience of taking a few deer and finally a buck, then we lean on them a little more to only take what we feel is a mature buck. Some are on board right away, some it takes a few extra years or deer. I guess I'd like to know how many youth are hunting in Iowa if they always seem to have such a frigid gun season. Half the people I seem to know couldn't handle not having wireless car starters in the winter. Would this hurt our future generation of hunters ? I know we all had to walk 10 miles to school in 10 feet of snow, todays kids are growing up way differently then we did, welcome to everything takes a battery gadget world.

[Big Dave2]

I don't think that if we had more nice 8's and 10's running around, that people would be complaining and saying that we should let them get older. I truly don't. I understand your "give and inch, take a mile" stance, but I don't think many of us would say that. I would be very content if I saw a few more 2.5-3.5 year old 8's and 10's. Most of us would probably have them on the wall because thats what most of us have on the wall right now. The restriction would allow 2 things, it would make people better identify the deer that they are shooting and think twice about pulling the trigger. We have to do that with pheasants, ducks, etc.. so I don't know why it would be such a big deal with antlers. 2nd, I think if that happened, the number of true "trophy" hunters that would want all the B&C bucks, would have a much smaller voice, making the majority of meat hunters, and those that want to see more mature bucks, one, much larger voice. I think the majority of the people right now, are just saying, can we please let the forks and small baskets walk. Thats all, nothing more, give them a little time to grow and get a little wiser. It might suck the first year or two, but that would be it, after that, it could be great.

Actually what I am asking is, would you still see that many more 8's and 10's if we shoot all the 6's. If there is a mentality of brown it's down in this state, won't all the 6 pointers get shot every year and there would still be just as few larger deer as before?

[kr8r.tom]

bigdave, most of the deer in the forested zones at 1.5 years old are spikes and forks, they don't have the nutrition they do in the ag areas wich are usually y bucks and 6 pointers, thats why 3 points on one side in the forested and 4 on one side in the ag that would let the majority of 1.5 year old deer walk and live to tell about it

[Shoot2Kill]

I don't think that if we had more nice 8's and 10's running around, that people would be complaining and saying that we should let them get older. I truly don't. I understand your "give and inch, take a mile" stance, but I don't think many of us would say that. I would be very content if I saw a few more 2.5-3.5 year old 8's and 10's. Most of us would probably have them on the wall because thats what most of us have on the wall right now. The restriction would allow 2 things, it would make people better identify the deer that they are shooting and think twice about pulling the trigger. We have to do that with pheasants, ducks, etc.. so I don't know why it would be such a big deal with antlers. 2nd, I think if that happened, the number of true "trophy" hunters that would want all the B&C bucks, would have a much smaller voice, making the majority of meat hunters, and those that want to see more mature bucks, one, much larger voice. I think the majority of the people right now, are just saying, can we please let the forks and small baskets walk. Thats all, nothing more, give them a little time to grow and get a little wiser. It might suck the first year or two, but that would be it, after that, it could be great.

Nicely put.

[Big Dave2]

bigdave, most of the deer in the forested zones at 1.5 years old are spikes and forks, they don't have the nutrition they do in the ag areas wich are usually y bucks and 6 pointers, thats why 3 points on one side in the forested and 4 on one side in the ag that would let the majority of 1.5 year old deer walk and live to tell about it

But what I am trying to get at here is that all this accomplishes is letting them live 1 more year. Will they become 10 pointers in 1 year? If not they will just get shot as a 6 pointer instead of a 4 pointer or fork. I don't see what the difference is.

[archerystud]

The difference is that the deer is one year wiser as well, which means it is less likely to be shot.

[Bear55]

Originally Posted By: kr8r.tom

bigdave, most of the deer in the forested zones at 1.5 years old are spikes and forks, they don't have the nutrition they do in the ag areas wich are usually y bucks and 6 pointers, thats why 3 points on one side in the forested and 4 on one side in the ag that would let the majority of 1.5 year old deer walk and live to tell about it

But what I am trying to get at here is that all this accomplishes is letting them live 1 more year. Will they become 10 pointers in 1 year? If not they will just get shot as a 6 pointer instead of a 4 pointer or fork. I don't see what the difference is.

What it gives them is a free pass one year. Lets say a buck is mature at 3.5 years of age, from 1.5 year on they get a little larger and a little smarter. Now if they get a 1 year free pass that is only 1 rifle season they have to make it through instead of two, they are also a little smarter that 2nd year so hopefully a few more make it to maturity.

If we moved to AR you would only have one year of sub-par hunting, after that all the 1.5's from the year before would be a year older and more than likely 8 pointers. The best party is you might almost double or even triple the buck population in a year or two.

[sticknstring]

Quote:

The best part is you might almost double or even triple the buck population in a year or two.

I highly doubt that. The buck population will improve but definitely not 2 or 3 fold in just a few years. Think long term on this one. The 2 1/2's will still get hit hard. Talk to the guys in Missouri on that one. Meat hunters will have bigger heavier racks to throw in the garbage as a result and the trophy guys will see more 3 1/2's showing up on trail cams. The guys who hunt 2 days a year and pull the trigger on the first thing they see will suffer but spending more time in the woods can't be all that bad. I don't see anything changing anytime soon, but if it did, I'd be in favor. It would be reassuring KNOWING that fork you've passed on 6 times this season won't be shot by the neighbors instead of HOPING.

[CSTPETER]

Big Dave, If I thought you really believed this logic I'd worry for you, But I'll bite anyways.

It's pretty simple, the goal for most of us "trophy hunters" is to harvest a deer that's a minimum of 3.5. years old. If you let them grow one additional year, they get to start out at 2.5. Let's figure this out in a very simple way.

Let's say you start out with 100 bucks that are 1.5. years old, We'll estimate that 80% get hammered the first year.That Leaves us with 20, 2.5. year old bucks for the next year. They're a little smarter now so only 60% of these deer get smoked. so out of 100 bucks maybe you get 8, 3.5. year olds.

Under A.R. We'll take the same 100, 1.5. year old bucks. if 0 are harvested at 1.5 we are left with 100, 2.5. year old bucks and yes, they are a little smarter, so let's say 60% get whacked the 2nd year. Still leaves us with 40 3.5 year old bucks.

Disclaimer: These number's are purely made up to demonstrate the significance of allowing an entire age class of bucks to go unharvested.

[pinkfloyd4ever]

also, age isn't the only factor for growing the big racks, you could let that 1.5 year old go, but the next year he could still carry the same rack

[Bear55]

Quote:

The best part is you might almost double or even triple the buck population in a year or two.

I highly doubt that. The buck population will improve but definitely not 2 or 3 fold in just a few years. Think long term on this one. The 2 1/2's will still get hit hard. Talk to the guys in Missouri on that one. Meat hunters will have bigger heavier racks to throw in the garbage as a result and the trophy guys will see more 3 1/2's showing up on trail cams. The guys who hunt 2 days a year and pull the trigger on the first thing they see will suffer but spending more time in the woods can't be all that bad. I don't see anything changing anytime soon, but if it did, I'd be in favor. It would be reassuring KNOWING that fork you've passed on 6 times this season won't be shot by the neighbors instead of HOPING.

I think it would at least double, lets say you count the buck population now after the rifle season, now if you add in all the young bucks that got shot this year you could easily double the buck population. Sure most of them will be young bucks but the population of buck overall should be very high compared to previsou years.

[Bear55]

also, age isn't the only factor for growing the big racks, you could let that 1.5 year old go, but the next year he could still carry the same rack

This is highly unlikely. Sure there could be some kind of freak buck that is a spiker for life but he isn't going to grow 4 inch spikes forever, those spiks are goign to get longer and thicker. I have seen tons of photos of very large 6 pointers, sure they don't have the genes but I would bet anyone shooting a 6 pointer with a 20 inch spread, 25 inch beams, 8 inch G2's and a lot of mass is going to be one happy hunter. Lets say a worst case senario is a buck only get to be a 100-110 inch 8 pointer, that is still a lot nicer buck that most of the state is shooting these days.

I think genes are over rated, sure you need them to grow a monster Boone and Crocket buck but most of us are happy to see anything with a decent rack and I would bet most of the bucks in this state have the capability to grow a rack 120+ if you let them get to the right age.

[Big Dave2]

Disclaimer: These number's are purely made up to demonstrate the significance of allowing an entire age class of bucks to go unharvested.

If these numbers are "purely made up", then how do you know that it works that way?

[propster]

Aaarrrgggghhhhh!!!!

[archerystud]

How do you know it won't work that way?

What is not debatable is that the 1.5 year old bucks currently get hammered.

[96trigger]

This morning I was ML hunting. A 1.5 year old fork horn followed my tracks right to my stand. Got about 15 yards away and kind of lost interest. I went back down and found where he first hooked up with my tracks and itw as about 300 yards from my stand. Long story short, it has been over 36 days since I put any kind of scent on my boots, either that deer was curious, or looking for lost love. At any rate, it was a complete one-who-thinks-I-am-silly. I firmly believe that the 1.5 year old male deer by itself, is the dumbest deer alive. No wonder so many get shot, I'm surprised he made it through the seasons..

[jltimm]

IMO they are the dumbest deer out there, add in a wantin for a doe (rut) and you have some easy shooting for the brown it's down crew!

[FISHINGURU]

all deer under 2 yrs old are dumber then a box a rocks.

[smnduck]

A big reason some are pushing for it is the bowhunters looking to have the rut to themselves. If the gun season is moved then bow season should be closed for 3 weeks around the rut also to "protect the bucks".

[kr8r.tom]

yep

[Wapiti]

What's the archery success rate in MN?

[Big Dave2]

A big reason some are pushing for it is the bowhunters looking to have the rut to themselves. If the gun season is moved then bow season should be closed for 3 weeks around the rut also to "protect the bucks".

I agree!

For all of you that are for moving the gun season back, would you be in favor of closing archery during the rut as well?

[jltimm]

Have you ever been bowhunting? It's not like rifle hunting where you can blaze at everything within eyesight! It actually takes skill to shoot a deer with a bow!

[96trigger]

No comparison, None, zero, zip, zilch. Lets not even go there, or start a new thread. Bow hunting is completely different.