Trophy Hunters, Friend or Foe?

[kr8r.tom]

the theory of: its brown its down, i'm convinced those people are bleeding heart liberals. they only want hunting laws to work their way, theres no give and take to help their fellow sportsman out. they won't think to themselves "you know what i got does for meat and half the hunters in the field would like to grow bigger bucks, so i'll do my share to help out for a couple seasons and see the results, it just might be good. why should i fight them,theres enough people trying to take away our hunting heritage".....bottom line is liberal sportsman not joining the brotherhood of sportsman.

[Wapiti]

Originally Posted By: Bear55

However, times are changing and more and more people are tired of the same old school deer management. Moving the gun season back and eliminating party hunting are two small steps that are going to save a lot of bucks and help balance the age structure. ......

Why is it all everyone ever talks about is moving the gun season. I'll hunt no matter when it is, BUT if you move the gun season later, you will have less participation. Every season that has a poor weather opener, the hunter numbers are down. If you move it back, to say this week, the DNR would sell a lot less licenses. Also, there are parts of MN that don't hold much, if any deer once the crops are completely harvested or the forage is covered with snow. This leads to more ground being worthless, in turn leading to more pressure on other hunting areas. Lastly, if we are for moving the gun season to protect more bucks, then I say we close the bow season for that time as well. No hunting means the bucks are protected. Moving the gun season sure sounds like catering to the bow hunters to me.

If moving the gun season back would be a reason people won't buy a license and hunt then it sounds like their problem to me...makes absolutely no sense! That's like saying if the open water fishing opener was moved back 2 weeks, people wouldn't fish or like me saying "Ice fishing is my favorite thing to do, but I wish it wasn't during the winter...it's just too darn cold". If that's you, then hunting isn't your passion...heck it isn't even a hobby of yours!

I realize that revenue is created by license sales, but it's not like MN (at least the last time I checked or heard of, correct me if I'm wrong here)is like the state of AZ where the game and fish in that state is solely dependent on the sales of licenses and tags!

[lakevet]

Iowa allows/endorses party hunting to help keep the deer population under control and they are a trophy buck factory. We need to shift our rifle season to where it was years ago and where Iowa's is now--post rut. Party hunting is not a factor- Iowa proves that.

Lakevet

[lakevet]

Thanksgiving week used to be the week of deer season. It was a time for our family to get together, give thanks and hunt. We still do that, just can't hunt (muzzleloader) til the weekend after Thanksgiving day. It would be nice to take the kids hunting on the days they are out of school for Thanksgiving break. It might increase participation of kids. I believe Wisconsin season is this way.

Lakevet

[Coach1310]

Originally Posted By: Coach1310

Originally Posted By: Bear55

However, times are changing and more and more people are tired of the same old school deer management. Moving the gun season back and eliminating party hunting are two small steps that are going to save a lot of bucks and help balance the age structure. ......

Why is it all everyone ever talks about is moving the gun season. I'll hunt no matter when it is, BUT if you move the gun season later, you will have less participation. Every season that has a poor weather opener, the hunter numbers are down. If you move it back, to say this week, the DNR would sell a lot less licenses. Also, there are parts of MN that don't hold much, if any deer once the crops are completely harvested or the forage is covered with snow. This leads to more ground being worthless, in turn leading to more pressure on other hunting areas. Lastly, if we are for moving the gun season to protect more bucks, then I say we close the bow season for that time as well. No hunting means the bucks are protected. Moving the gun season sure sounds like catering to the bow hunters to me.

If moving the gun season back would be a reason people won't buy a license and hunt then it sounds like their problem to me...makes absolutely no sense! That's like saying if the open water fishing opener was moved back 2 weeks, people wouldn't fish or like me saying "Ice fishing is my favorite thing to do, but I wish it wasn't during the winter...it's just too darn cold". If that's you, then hunting isn't your passion...heck it isn't even a hobby of yours!

I realize that revenue is created by license sales, but it's not like MN (at least the last time I checked or heard of, correct me if I'm wrong here)is like the state of AZ where the game and fish in that state is solely dependent on the sales of licenses and tags!

First off, if you actually read my post, I said "I'll hunt no matter when it is." And if you think license sales isn't a big deal to the DNR you are kidding yourself. I just see that as one factor on why the season will not be changed. You are right, license sales and tags aren't the only thing keeping the DNR going, but they won't be able to provide their services without them. I hunt plenty of days each year, but to say an opinion doesn't matter unless hunting is a "passion" of yours is crazy. The guy/gal/kid who hunts only one day a year has just as much right to voice their opinions as the guys who hunts every day of each season. Not trying to start an argument, just stating a position.

[Big Dave2]

A more pronounced rut, where the bulk of does come into estrus in a shorter period of time and mature bucks do more of the breeding, vs a trickle rut where does are bred late and smaller bucks and spikes are born later the following year, thus perpetuating the cycle, would be one benefit.

[Big Dave2]

the theory of: its brown its down, i'm convinced those people are bleeding heart liberals. they only want hunting laws to work their way, theres no give and take to help their fellow sportsman out. they won't think to themselves "you know what i got does for meat and half the hunters in the field would like to grow bigger bucks, so i'll do my share to help out for a couple seasons and see the results, it just might be good. why should i fight them,theres enough people trying to take away our hunting heritage".....bottom line is liberal sportsman not joining the brotherhood of sportsman.

Holy cow! If you think I am even close to a liberal, well you should probably come to work with me for a day and listen to Rush Limbaugh with me!

I would say that YOUR point of view on this is the more liberal point of view. Aren't you the one advocating to take away some of my rights? Aren't you the one trying to enlarge governments role in hunting by creating more regulations, thus enlarging it's role in my life?

I just believe that deer hunting means different things to different people. The way it is now is not infringing on your rights to only shoot large bucks if you want to. You can do your thing and I can do mine. What you are advocating is FORCING me to hunt the way that you want to hunt and the heck with what I think. That sounds liberal to me.

And all of you who talk about only shooting does if you want meat, just remember that there are a lot of lottery zones in MN and if you don't draw a tag, Then what? Leave the deer go because it will benefit the trophy hunters?

[96trigger]

Quote:

And all of you who talk about only shooting does if you want meat, just remember that there are a lot of lottery zones in MN and if you don't draw a tag, Then what? Leave the deer go because it will benefit the trophy hunters?

I said it before, all lottery areas should be exempt from any type of restriction, and I fully understand party hunting in those areas. What I think many of us on here are saying REPEATEDLY, is that in intensive and managed areas, why not shoot the does if you can, why take the little bucks when there are plenty of does for meat. (Obviously this is NOT the case in lottery areas, get it?)

I don't think moving the season back would hinder deer hunter numbers. There have been a lot of times where the opener for 3B had better weather than 3A, like this year. In Wisconsin its pretty much a state holiday and occurs over Thanksgiving week, don't hear them complaining about the weather. However, I'm not sure how they would handle the split 3A and 3B seasons, there would be a ton, and I mean a ton of hunters in one small section of the state.

[Big Dave2]

Quote:

And all of you who talk about only shooting does if you want meat, just remember that there are a lot of lottery zones in MN and if you don't draw a tag, Then what? Leave the deer go because it will benefit the trophy hunters?

I said it before, all lottery areas should be exempt from any type of restriction, and I fully understand party hunting in those areas. What I think many of us on here are saying REPEATEDLY, is that in intensive and managed areas, why not shoot the does if you can, why take the little bucks when there are plenty of does for meat. (Obviously this is NOT the case in lottery areas, get it?)

I don't think moving the season back would hinder deer hunter numbers. There have been a lot of times where the opener for 3B had better weather than 3A, like this year. In Wisconsin its pretty much a state holiday and occurs over Thanksgiving week, don't hear them complaining about the weather. However, I'm not sure how they would handle the split 3A and 3B seasons, there would be a ton, and I mean a ton of hunters in one small section of the state.

You may have said that but not the other posters.

If I saw a doe first or if I thought that the area was good enough to see multiple deer a season(I don't seem to hunt in such an area) then I would have no problem taking the doe instead of the buck. I just don't really want any laws telling me that I have to do that. Then theres always the problem of a doe being with a fawn yet. That makes for a tough decision.

[Pickelfarmer]

I would like to see this topic posted in the Deer bear elk moose forum as well as the hunting forum.

I replied to this topic when it was posted the last time. I do not agree with trophy hunting. If you want a trophy go to kansas. I looked up the different numbers between Kansas and MN and found this.

2007 Kansas hunter numbers(Firearms only)-141,000

2007 Kansas deer harvest numbers(Firearms and archery combined)90,000 ( I wonder what the Rifle hunting season alone got)?

MN hunter numbers (I assume firearms,archery and muzzleloader combined)- 500,000

MN deer harvest (I assume total # of deer per year harvested) 200,000

These numbers were takin from the MN DNR web sight as well as the Kansas wild life management site.

My bet goes with MN when it comes to deer hunting.

[Black_Bay]

Thanksgiving week used to be the week of deer season. It was a time for our family to get together, give thanks and hunt. We still do that, just can't hunt (muzzleloader) til the weekend after Thanksgiving day. It would be nice to take the kids hunting on the days they are out of school for Thanksgiving break. It might increase participation of kids. I believe Wisconsin season is this way.

Lakevet

When was the season as late as Thanksgiving? I've been hunting for 30+ years and it's always been at the same time as now.

[Wapiti]

I would like to see this topic posted in the Deer bear elk moose forum as well as the hunting forum.

I replied to this topic when it was posted the last time. I do not agree with trophy hunting. If you want a trophy go to kansas. I looked up the different numbers between Kansas and MN and found this.

2007 Kansas hunter numbers(Firearms only)-141,000

2007 Kansas deer harvest numbers(Firearms and archery combined)90,000 ( I wonder what the Rifle hunting season alone got)?

MN hunter numbers (I assume firearms,archery and muzzleloader combined)- 500,000

MN deer harvest (I assume total # of deer per year harvested) 200,000

These numbers were takin from the MN DNR web sight as well as the Kansas wild life management site.

My bet goes with MN when it comes to deer hunting.

Not trying to be offensive here pickel, but what is the point you are attempting to make with these statistics?

[96trigger]

Depends on where you hunt. The 3B season has always been during thanksgiving week, has been for at least 20 years, still is..

D2, I don't envy your situaion. I think we should think about where we hunt before we throw out all the opinions. If the only deer I saw after 10 days of hunting was a small buck, I'm going to shoot it. I fortunately don't have that problem, where as I know others do. If I was in a lottery area and I never got drawn, I would also probably shoot the first legal deer I saw. I don't want to diss anybody that does. In my area, we have abundant deer, it is easy to pass on small bucks knowing that I can go out and stil get a good doe harvest if I put in the time. I might think otherwise in a lottery area or area that is void of deer even if its intensive harvest. Deer are not stupid. All the deer I see bowhunting don't get shot, but they do disappear for awhile. It often takes at least a month after all seasons close before I start seeing them religiously again, they have an uncanny nack for survival.

In my area, where the deer hunting is good, I wouldn't mind seeing more of those little bucks get a little bit older, thats all. I'd like to see more hunters take that approach, and on the private land I hunt, they are, but those areas don't hold the deer numbers, on the stateland that I bowhunt, the deer numbers are there, but so is the brown its down crowd. I'm kind of caught in the middle, not sure which way to go. The reason I started bow hunting was because I wanted a trophy buck. I got it last year. Took almost 10 years to get him, but it was worth it. Still have yet to even raise the barrel and fire a shot during the 3B season at a trophy or comparable buck. Now its depressing when I swap my matthews for my winchester 1300. I know my opportunity to shoot another trophy has probably passed and its time to fill the freezer. I still try and pass on the small bucks, even during the firearm season.

[propster]

"our deer herd is about as large as it's ever been" - and lopsided in terms of small immature bucks.

[ikatcher]

i think what pickle is getting at is hunting is pretty darn good in mn. i think most deer hunters have dreams of shooting the big buck we all see in paintings, but the truth is, are just happy to fill their tag. i don't personally like all the labeling that are being tossed around, like "meat hunters" or "trophy hunters" i think they both make hunters look bad.

[Pickelfarmer]

Originally Posted By: Pickelfarmer

I would like to see this topic posted in the Deer bear elk moose forum as well as the hunting forum.

I replied to this topic when it was posted the last time. I do not agree with trophy hunting. If you want a trophy go to kansas. I looked up the different numbers between Kansas and MN and found this.

2007 Kansas hunter numbers(Firearms only)-141,000

2007 Kansas deer harvest numbers(Firearms and archery combined)90,000 ( I wonder what the Rifle hunting season alone got)?

MN hunter numbers (I assume firearms,archery and muzzleloader combined)- 500,000

MN deer harvest (I assume total # of deer per year harvested) 200,000

These numbers were takin from the MN DNR web sight as well as the Kansas wild life management site.

My bet goes with MN when it comes to deer hunting.

Not trying to be offensive here pickel, but what is the point you are attempting to make with these statistics?

I guess I dont see a problem with MN's current Deer managment. If you want a trophy go else where or hunt hard in MN for the BIG ONE if thats what your into.

The poster of this topic already had quite a run with a post about pretty much this same topic on this very Forum.

I was simply pointing out that Kansas SHOULD have a good number of great bucks as there not hunted as hard as MN bucks are. But then again neither are their does.

Kansas as a state, size wise,is the same size as MN, but the number of deer taken each year from kansas is less than half the number takin from MN. There is twice as many hunters in MN and twice as many deer takin from MN each year vrs Kansas. All this from a state thats the same size as kansas (A so called trophy state).

My queastion is, Why are MN hunters able to harvest twice as many deer in a state that is the same size as a so called trophy state? If the answer is because the hunters in Kansas pass up deer to get a trophy, I'll call you a liar.I think its called hunting pressure and a saturation of hunters in "HOT SPOTS". I think MN is right on track to be able to keep up the kind of deer heard that we have here with the hunting pressure the deer herds see. I beleave we are able to do this because of the number of hunters there are here, and the money we put out each year from buying DNR issued licences.

Sure we could turn MN into a trophy state. All we would have to do is LIMIT the amount of hunters that hunt in our state.Because in the end isn't that what you would be doing by putting limits on what kind of deer can be shot and when they can be shot?

Kansas doesn't limit hunter numbers by choice. They just don't have the number of hunters that MN does because they dont have the hunting tradition we MN hunters have.Theres alot of meat hunters in MN and like I said before,"Go trophy hunt else where".

Lets see how long states such as Kansas keep there trophy statis when the hunter numbers flip flop and MN has anly 140,000 hunters and kansas has 500,000.The only thing trophy hunting regulations will produce is less hunters and in the long run less deer.

I guess I think everyone should be able to enjoy the outdoors and deer hunting not just the ones that have the most money and the loudest mouths. Thats what Im trying to say.......

[FISHINGURU]

why do people think just because there is big deer population its a healthy herd? a healthy herd should be as close to even as possible...there's area's in MN that are like 5-7 doe's to 1 buck.

how would anything that produces more mature animals and less hunters in the long run make it so there is less deer? that makes no sense....so less people in the woods shooting less deer would somehow equal less deer? another thing is i don't see why people would quit hunting because they get to shoot a big deer...the only thing different is instead of spikes, 4's, and 6's being the common bucks you see with the more rare bigger ones the average buck would be way bigger because they'd live to be mature...nice 8's, 10's, and 12's would be more common because they actaully got to live to see the day.

i know i don't have to go anywhere to hunt for a MATURE whitetail...and if more people passed on little immature bucks there would be more MATURE animals...you know the kind that are actually smart and have been through a few hunting seasons....i personally feel kinda guilty if i shoot a young deer...they stand no chance.

i'm done with the word trophy..because when it comes down to it i'm not a trophy hunter...i just like to hunt mature whitetails which just so happens to be most mature whitetails are considered trophies....i want to go hunt hard and be patient and get a mature animal.

i guess it depends where you hunt because if i went out on opening day just to fill my tags i'd be done opener weekend every year and my only chance to harvest a mature animal would be if i just happened to see one the first couple days of hunting.

i could tell everyone how good of a hunter i am because i always fill all my tags and most of my friends to that are in my party...i'd be so stuffed on venny every night....instead its shame on me for letting young deer walk and being willing to eat my buck tag when i could be filling all my tags every year.

i guess for me i'm happy knowing there are alot of deer out there right now that wouldn't be if i was a hunter that took anything...when all else fails i harvest a doe because there are alot more of them out there then bucks and our herd is lopsided.

what are some of your guy's opinions on some places that have the earn a buck program? you can't shoot a buck until you tag a doe..by then you already have some meat and now your looking for your buck.

[Hoyt4]

No anlter restrictions.But I do agree things could change in helping with the deer.Moving the season would help.Just an idea moving from rifle to shotgun only?Is Iowa that way?Maybe that would not make a difference how far of shots we are making better judments on size of deer being shot at then no ground shrinkage.I will shoot any type of buck from spike to 12pointer.If you want to hold out for a larger buck good for you and that is your choice but don't try and get reg's changed for those that don't mind what they harvest and put on the grill.Yeah I would shoot a doe no problem but I have only seen 2 does this year and 10 different bucks from stand.I'm going to put something in the freezer I shot one doe and that is almost gone.I use it all year long and go through 3 deer for the year.Buck doe ,does not matter to me.I get to hunt with my old man and friends.Never will I hold it against anyone that likes to hold out for what they call a trophy or the guy next door that shot a 6 point cause his son was with or only had one day to hunt for the season and would like to put some venison in the freezer.This is great topic and I think most would agree that changes could be done.

[Pickelfarmer]

why do people think just because there is big deer population its a healthy herd? a healthy herd should be as close to even as possible...there's area's in MN that are like 5-7 doe's to 1 buck.

how would anything that produces more mature animals and less hunters in the long run make it so there is less deer? that makes no sense....so less people in the woods shooting less deer would somehow equal less deer? another thing is i don't see why people would quit hunting because they get to shoot a big deer...the only thing different is instead of spikes, 4's, and 6's being the common bucks you see with the more rare bigger ones the average buck would be way bigger because they'd live to be mature...nice 8's, 10's, and 12's would be more common because they actaully got to live to see the day.

i know i don't have to go anywhere to hunt for a MATURE whitetail...and if more people passed on little immature bucks there would be more MATURE animals...you know the kind that are actually smart and have been through a few hunting seasons....i personally feel kinda guilty if i shoot a young deer...they stand no chance.

i'm done with the word trophy..because when it comes down to it i'm not a trophy hunter...i just like to hunt mature whitetails which just so happens to be most mature whitetails are considered trophies....i want to go hunt hard and be patient and get a mature animal.

i guess it depends where you hunt because if i went out on opening day just to fill my tags i'd be done opener weekend every year and my only chance to harvest a mature animal would be if i just happened to see one the first couple days of hunting.

i could tell everyone how good of a hunter i am because i always fill all my tags and most of my friends to that are in my party...i'd be so stuffed on venny every night....instead its shame on me for letting young deer walk and being willing to eat my buck tag when i could be filling all my tags every year.

i guess for me i'm happy knowing there are alot of deer out there right now that wouldn't be if i was a hunter that took anything...when all else fails i harvest a doe because there are alot more of them out there then bucks and our herd is lopsided.

what are some of your guy's opinions on some places that have the earn a buck program? you can't shoot a buck until you tag a doe..by then you already have some meat and now your looking for your buck.

You have some great POINTS that you make and I understand and agree with most of what your saying. All I'm saying is, its todays hunters and the DNR that have brought the deer herd of MN to the great thing it is state wide. You said yourself that you could shoot a doe anytime you want. 10-20 years ago you wouldn't have been able to say that.

With the mentallity of, "One day everyone will have a chance at a monster buck", I have a feeling that it won't happen like that. In the process of trying to get to that point our deer will suffer. Maybe not everyone wants to shoot a big buck. I for one don't like the way an old buck tastes. I perfer to have a young but yet Mature doe or buck 1.5 - 2.5 years old.

"Everyone can be a winner" is not the correct way of looking at Deer management. I know thats not your words I'm just adding that as a point. There are some really nice deer takin each year from MN and just because everyone dosen't get a chance to bag a trophy it doesn't meen we need to change the game (everyone can't be a winner every year).

If there is less hunters in the woods there is less money going into paying for hunting land and habitat, as well as disease managment. Thining the deer herd keeps the deer healthy, the DNR wealthy and... Well I got nothin for the wise part.

[Bear55]

Originally Posted By: Bear55

However, times are changing and more and more people are tired of the same old school deer management. Moving the gun season back and eliminating party hunting are two small steps that are going to save a lot of bucks and help balance the age structure. ......

Why is it all everyone ever talks about is moving the gun season. I'll hunt no matter when it is, BUT if you move the gun season later, you will have less participation. Every season that has a poor weather opener, the hunter numbers are down. If you move it back, to say this week, the DNR would sell a lot less licenses. Also, there are parts of MN that don't hold much, if any deer once the crops are completely harvested or the forage is covered with snow. This leads to more ground being worthless, in turn leading to more pressure on other hunting areas. Lastly, if we are for moving the gun season to protect more bucks, then I say we close the bow season for that time as well. No hunting means the bucks are protected. Moving the gun season sure sounds like catering to the bow hunters to me.

Look at Wisconsin & Michigan, their gun seasons open later in the year an both states have far more hunters than us. I would hate to think that hunters from MI and WI are a tougher breed of men and women to be able to handle the weather. I am not buying the worthless ground argument either, the deer might be on different food sources a little later in the season but they don't move completely out of an area. It may seem that way now but is because they have been highly pressured during rifle seaons so the smart ones hunker down.

[96trigger]

Quote:

I for one don't like the way an old buck tastes. I perfer to have a young but yet Mature doe or buck 1.5 - 2.5 years old.

"Everyone can be a winner" is not the correct way of looking at Deer management.

Not everyone is going to like what the DNR does, right now, its obvious that some think the DNR is doing a lousy job. I don't think they have a clue (the people, not the DNR). Our herd is doing very well. I just think that in some places where the herd is well populated and its not uncommon to see at least one deer in range when you go out, that we can do more to help some more bucks reach maturity. I think changing the season dates would be drastic, and logistically difficult in zone 3. I'd like to hear some options though. I think that antler restrictions could be beneficial, but I don't like the DNR telling me what to shoot, however, I don't mind making some hunters get a good look at what they are shooting first. When someone sees a mature buck, it doesn't matter if its going full tilt through brush, you will know when its a "shooter" buck. They have the large things on their head, usually look white in the woods. As for party hunting, I don't have a problem with it, you want to to use your buddies tag for a doe, go ahead, but I think you should only be allowed one antlered deer a year, once you have shot and registered and antlered deer, you should not be able to legally party hunt for another. Give the bucks a chance, put someone else in your stand, let them have a go if you think there are more out there. We already hunt the rut, why do some individuals need to shoot 2 or even 3 bucks a year????? Its too bad that it would be so tough to enforce, I don't have any idea how they could do except to say that once you shoot a mature buck, you would be done for that season and have to wait until the next opens up to hunt again for does, wouldn't be too bad, but I'm sure that some will really think that is a horrible idea. I don't care if you do go to your hunting shack for a week and tag out on opening morning. I'd be darn happy to hunt for 2 hours and shoot a monster. I'm sure that I'd spend the rest of the week squirrel hunting or day dreaming about the hunt that was.

[nolte]

Managing for deer shouldn't be about maximizing the number of animals. It should be for trying to keep a steady constant number of healthy animals that does not exceed the area's carrying capacity.

I'm curious, what sort of programs have the DNR done to boost/enhance the deer herd. Or better yet what could they do? I see some logging (which aids deer greatly for a few years), and purchasing a some land tracts. Note this doesn't do anything new for for the deer, but does give access to hunters. I believe private land owners have the oppportunity to do WAY more than the DNR can.

Like I said, what you would give up would be 1-2 years of not being able to shoot a small buck. That's it. By year 3 you would have a many bucks that be mature/legal to harvest. You wouldn't have to travel to Kansas/Iowa to have a legit chance a mature buck AND plenty of other opportunities for meat.

I don't think comparing MN to KS/IA is a good comparison. First they are vastly different in land types/terrain and I beleive KS/IA are heavily privatized and restrict Non-Res hunters.

One thing that I am heavily in favor is, is a call-in registration. It would save a ton of money and be much quicker. You punch in your dnr #, a few questions and boom, your'e done. Give people 3 days to do it. You'd still have a tag to put on the animal. If you're up at deer camp, you can go to town and call in.

[Pickelfarmer]

[groundswatter]

Hey Guru,read your comment about the earn a buck program.Here in Wis its been going on for about 5 years in different areas,YOU DO NOT WANT THIS IN MINN.Our deer pop. has taken a drastic decline since our dnr has started it.I dont care if you are a meat hunter or trophy hunter,BROWN ITS DOWN.Here in Wis our dnr has got the deer pop. est.so screwed up no one is seeing deer.Take a look at the Wis DNR HSOforum and look at the kill numbers from this year,they are down 23% statewide.

[96trigger]

GSWATTER, thank you. I have a brother that lives in Menomonie. Has a 40 acre farm, hates the EAB. Said people pick up road kill and do all sorts of nasty stuff to get their EAB tag. They let their population get way out wack over there. Yeah, they have big deer, but they also have a population problem.