Gas $3.20 today in St. Cloud

[IFallsRon]

The abrupt price jump is a reset of the retail fuel market, said Jim Feneis, president of First Fuel Banks.

Stations erode their profit margins by undercutting each other to attract customers. Every so often, gas prices suddenly rise so stations can adjust profits and cover wholesale costs.

"There's more gasoline stations than that market can support," Feneis said. "Everybody in essence is fighting over too small a piece of pie."

[DTro]

My math shows a savings of $13/month based on 17/18 and 15000/yr.

From 18/28 a savings of $73/month.

[hanson]

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How is this any different than a gasoline retailer charging more because his customers are lined up in the street? We can just go down the road to the next retailer.

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I'm sorry. But you can NOT just go down the road to the next retailer. All the gas stations in my neighborhood raised from $2.92 to $3.19 during Thursday morning sometime. All of them! They do it together! Every gas station in the entire state darn near raises their prices AT THE SAME TIME! This topic is proof of that - "Gas $3.20 today in St. Cloud". Gee... what a freakin' coincidence, it raised to $3.20 today in Plymouth and we're 70 miles from St. Cloud.

The part that really ticks me off is there are gas stations that are more than happy to start price wars, which were the norm back in the '90s. Problem is, they get fined, shut down, and put out of business. If a guy wants to take a loss on a product he's selling, why not let him?

Back in 1997 in Fargo (not even 10 years ago), we had gas selling for 69.9 cents a gallon, that had dropped from the $1.05-1.09 that it sold for every other day of the year. I can still remember when the price of gas jumping a nickel was a big deal. Now it jumps 30cents in a day. Yikes.

[harvey lee]

At this rate it wont be long and the smaller service stations will for forced out of business with the high inventory costs along with accounts recievable.The bigger company stores will take over and then watch out.The President has to do something to control the profits of these big oil companies.Iam not saying that they should not make money,but what they are doing is highway robbery.We can blame the middle east all we want but if one looks at the profits the big oil dudes are making then no need to look any farther than our own shores.

As this continues you will see this economy slide into the dumper as people can only cut back so far.

Now that I got that off my chest I think I will go fishing to h$$l with them all.

[big musk411]

The prices are at this level off of wednesdays oil prices. If you watched the markets it went down yesterday and dropped more today. I think it will be back at the $3.00 level by Monday

[hanson]

I would like to add that on my way into work this morning, my favorite gas station that jumped to $3.19 yesterday with everyone else is back to $2.92 this morning, which is what their gas was yesterday morning.

[BobT]

dtro, check my math for yourself.

Price per gallon - $2.78

Miles per gallon - 16

Cost per mile = $2.78 / 16 = $.17375

Price per gallon - $2.95

Miles per gallon - 17

Cost per mile = $2.95 / 18 = $.17353

$2.95 - $2.78 = $.17

Where do you see the error? I admit there is a small error due to rounding.

Bob

[DTro]

Bob, your original post claims that going from 16-17 mpg saves you $.18 per gallon and that is simply not true, not even close, even if the gas was $4.

Maybe I'm seeing this wrong.

[nofishfisherman]

Ok here is my answer to the math question.

If gas is $2.95 a gallon this is the break down

$2.95/ 16 mpg = $.1843 per mile

$2.95/ 17 mpg = $.1735 per mile

Thats a difference of $.0108 per mile.

If you drive 300 miles on a tank of gas you save $3.24 per tank. (300 x .0108 = $3.24)

If you fill up 4 times a month that saves you $12.96 a month. ($3.24 x 4 = $12.96)

Carry that over 12 months and you will save $155.52 a year. ($12.96 x 12 = $155.52)

If you do the math saving yourselves .17 a gallon on gas its about the same, roughly $150 dollars a year, so its some just not mind blowing savings in my mind.

[blakjack23]

Bob, shouldn't the lower of those two gas prices be the one divided by 17?

[SpecialK]

Not sure how many know this but I was told that most of America's oil doesn't even come from the Middle East. We get most of our oil from Canada, Argentina and other countries in S. America.

If that is true, kind of puts a crimp in the "Starting wars for Oil" theory.

The best way (As I and others have said before) to get the price down is for everyone to use less. The sad fact that we will all be forced to use less, will be that the folks that rely on recreation dollars are going to feel the brunt of this first is not good.

The only upside is that the folks who support and supply the local areas will see more $$ as we will be staying close to home.

[rushing]

Well its getting to the point where poor folks like myself arent gonna be able to aford the drive to fish anymore. Gonna have to become a motivational speaker and move to a van down by the river. I havent drove to SE MN to do ANY flyfishing this year beacuse I simply cant aford it. I get about 17mpg with my pathfinder and would like to get a new vehicle but its not just that easy. Even harder times are a coming for the working poor. Come on Powerball!!!!!

[mntraveler]

Looking at the numbers, I think BobT is right. Now I know why we started taking the civic to the lake instead of my dakota. However, like many other people said, it's paid for so gas is still (at least for the time being) less than another car payment. The other problem is, having a pickup is very convenient, especially if one does any DIY work around the house. While most things could be done with a small car and a trailer there are several tasks that require a larger vehicle and engine. I have said for years, if an automaker can give me a vehicle that gets twice the mileage, I'll pay twice the price for gas without complaint. There just isn't a good answer to this problem. I agree that this isn't totally a political issue, but on the same hand, the way our country's infastructure has been laid out, there is no way to feasibly use mass transit for most people's day to day lives. Something will have to change for this problem to lessen.

[harvey lee]

Remember one thing about the gas costs,we can blame any other country we want but the BIG oil companies have HUGE profits so you can also throw them into the mix of crooks.

We can also conserve gas and buy a smaller car.

[cold one sd]

I rember back in the seventies when I lived in Colorado and the feds pulled their fuel shortage in a few states. Colorado was one of them. You couldn't buy more than 10 gallons of gas or diesel at a station so you had to go from station to station to fill up. I was operating a Kenworth and hauling a large crawler at the time and the only place I could fill all the way was at a truck stop. I can remember stopping at every station that had diesel while on the road and putting in 10 gallons until I hit a truck stop and could fill all the way. When you crossed into Wyoming, you could buy all you wanted anywhere. What a crock that was. The speed limit also went down to 55 mph to save fuel and this was pushed by the Federal Government. They don't seem to be too concerned now do they? Might as well get used to bending over at the pump.

[rushing]

I think I am gonna start work on a bullhead powered car!

[DTro]

Ok, I've checked my math and I also believe you are right Bob, I guess the point I was trying make was that if you average 15000 miles a year and gained 1 mpg you would save less than $15 a month

[nofishfisherman]

The real point to getting that 1 MPG more is that it will save you about $155 a year if gas is $2.95 and you are talking about going from 16 to 17 MPG.

It think if you look at getting gas for $2.78 versus 2.95 it looks like a bigger deal then the $3 a tank you will save. But it adds up I guess.

I looked a getting a hybrid this spring when I bought my Mazda 3, but it would have taken my like 15 years gas savings to break even with what my mazda cost becuase of the higher costs of the car.

[BobT]

I see that we are all talking the same thing from different angles. I was just tryng to show the savings in a way that appeared most significant.

Also, it is true that we get most of our oil from the western hemisphere so why does OPEC have such influence on us? Suppose OPEC stopped production? The oil demand on the western hemisphere would increase many-fold. We live in a world economy and what happens in one area affects the entire world.

Anyway, in reference to my comments about price gouging...

Price fixing and price gouging are two different things. For example when Katrina hit and there were a few gas station retailers that had raised their price to over $4 per gallon when all others were about $1.90. That’s price gouging and in these situations one can go down the street or to the next town to find lower prices. We hear about this every once in a while. I remember when we imposed an embargo on OPEC. You’d hear about certain places super-inflating their prices when there were shortages and their competitors had run out of fuel. Now that’s pure supply and demand, price fixing, and monopolizing all rolled into one because the customers were not able to just go down the street. That’s why price fixing and monopolies are illegal.

Whether one is talking about a guide service, auto repair shop, contractor, or whatever, these other businesses are not subject to the same scrutiny. I remember now where I raised this question before…in my thread about septic system costs it was suggested that the $18,000 price tag could be because that particular contractor was so busy he didn’t really need the extra work so he raised his prices...supply and demand in action. I can agree with that and now it is up to us to decide whether or not we want to obtain other bids and we will because we can.

I don’t see the oil companies as an illegal monopoly because they are individual companies from many various countries that compete with one another. The prices for fuel vary from one company to the next, albeit not by very much. But then if competition is actually fair, their prices should be very close.

It is common practice for competitors to watch each other’s pricing and try to stay within competitive distance. If someone decides to sell his car what’s one of the first things he does? He checks NADA or KellyBlueBook or other references to decide what he will price his vehicle. I know that in Alexandria, Menard’s and Fleet Farm quite often check each other’s prices out to make sure they stay close. Unless I’m mistaken, that’s partially why Fleet Farm will not quote prices over the phone. Usually, one will try to beat the other’s price when they can and that is how our system is supposed to work. Good, clean competition of this nature provides us the consumer the best opportunity for the best buy.

I think that considering the fact that the US population has doubled in the last 50 years, and the average annual miles driven per driver has also doubled, it is not inconceivable to believe that we demand about four times as much gasoline per year than we did 50 years ago. Our ability to refine the crude and discovery of new crude oil reserves have not kept up the same pace. Couple that with such things as inflation, new very large countries joining the industrial revolution, natural disasters, greed, and the Middle East crisis and something is bound to give. Like the rest of you, I surely do suspect there are other shady factors involved but I believe it is only a small piece of the equation.

Bob

[cold one sd]

I think there is a good side to this also. The up side is that this should get the oil industry in North America moving again. The layoffs that have happened in the past were very large. I lwould like to hear from some of our members out west about the action going on in the oil fields. I have heard that they are getting very busy. Any good news?

[JollyT]

This really isn't an OPEC driven price rise. They have much less influence than they did in the 1970's. I believe the real problem is in how the commodity and futures markets are set up. A lot of people make a lot of money trading every time the price spikes. The traders got rich off Katrina. Remember the electrical prices in California a couple of years ago. All driven by out of control trading. Oil trading causes similar spikes.

[cold one sd]

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This really isn't an OPEC driven price rise. They have much less influence than they did in the 1970's. I believe the real problem is in how the commodity and futures markets are set up. A lot of people make a lot of money trading every time the price spikes. The traders got rich off Katrina. Remember the electrical prices in California a couple of years ago. All driven by out of control trading. Oil trading causes similar spikes.

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BINGO!!! I think the nail just took a hit on the head.

[sparkyaber]

I just put 18$ worth of gas into my motorcycle today!!! ouch!

[Ely Lake Expert]

The comment earlier that started the math conversation was if you drive better you could get for example 17mpg's instead of 16mpg's or something to that extent and that would save approximately $155 per year. I think if you drive better the gas mileage difference is more than 1 mpg, which in effect would save you more money over the course of the year. Here is my example using my car though every car is different. I drive a 1999 STS 4.6 V8 300 horse. I have a instant mpg gauge which I look at alot.

Driving in town with constant gas/break gas/break I get 15mpg's

Cruising speeds

30mph= 24mpg's

40mph=26mpg's

50mph=28mpg's

60mph=30mpg's

70mph=27mpg's

80mph=23mpg's

90mph=19mpg's

That's far enough, but my point is if you don't accelerate as fast and go a little bit slower on the highway, it makes a whole lot more difference than 1 mpg. So in the end you may be looking a $400-$500 a year difference.

Ryan