$16.00 for trail permit is ripoff!!!!

[shadyzr]

A few days before the end of the legislative session they PUSH this bill through for more money. So now instead of around $15.00 a year to snowmobile, it's now around $30.00 a year. When I called the D.N.R. office in St.Paul, they said it was'nt them that got this law passed, it was snowmobile clubs and the trail groomers. So now instead of the D.N.R. and the trail groomers splitting the license fees from the snowmobile owners, they now both get a 100% increase in REVENUE. Most snowmobile clubs and snowmobilers I've talked to don't want the increase, so we are forced to have a new law rammed down our throats that we don,t want. Last year in my general area, the trails were groomed a total of 3 times, this year has the making of another warm year again with no miles accumulating on sleds. So does anyone know where all the money goes when they don't groom the trails??? Or do they just go down the dirt feilds just to burn up the money?? Around 400,000 snowmobiles registered at $16.00 apiece is around $6,000,000 to $7,000,000 a year, nice income!!!

[Xplorer]

Groomer payments and ?????????. Payments on groomers need to be made regardless of snow, part was "designated" as to be used for trail acquisition (easement and land purchase) but i dont have a clue on where its all going.

With it 44 in duluth right now there wont be much left to groom

[Walterwontfalter]

some clubs also pay their groomer operators and if there is snow it's long hours and lots of fatigue in a slow, rattling machine.

[knoppers]

its a good thing if all the money goes to maintain the trails, but theres that grey area about, if all the money goes there. it will probally end up in the general fund, where everything else seems to go.

does anyone know what the non-resident trail sticker costs? I know it used to be 10 bucks. It better be at least 16 or better.

[Nutty Fisherman]

The non-resident pays the 16.00 also.

[hanson]

They sure picked a good year to unveil this program.

Should be lots of trail grooming money getting carried over for next winter.

Its all a bunch of bull if you ask me! I think as responsible , "tax paying" , snowmobilers, we should have access to a financial report that details how much money was taken in with these fees and where that money goes. That wouldn't be asking too much would it? It would just be holding our lawmakers and congressman accountable.

[MnIceman]

I'm a MNUSA member and received one of their Minnesota snowmobiling papers . In the first one for the season the president of the club was talking up how they got this bill passed and how it's good for the clubs. Funny how all my e-mails to MNUSA last spring voicing my opposition to this got rejected. But oh , when it's time to renew they sent out the notice . Then after I renewed is when I read that. I don't think I'll be a member after the next renewal. The president was also remarking that enrollment is down . Might be lower after this. Kind of funny that I never see any fund raising things from the local club to help pay for that stuff. Tried joing a couple of times over past few years and they are never there when the meetings are supposed to be. I guess they don't need help except from the state making everyone pay. I'll have to try join the club up by my cabin, at least they are working on the trails.

[45acpshooter]

If you think $16.00 is a rip off ($30.00 for three years), you should try riding in Ontario. Trail passes there are $230.00 per year, residents and nonresidents. Thats $690.00 for what we get for $30.00, the cost of a meal in a half decent restaurant. Daily passes are in Ontario are $35.00, more than we pay for three years. I'll gladly pay it and consider myself lucky. Our trail system is first rate but it doesn't maintain itself. If we only had some snow to groom I don't think anyone would think twice about trail pass costs.

[john.wells]

Canada sucks anyway. The thing that bothers me is that the registration fee is supposed to cover what our original registration did.They are double charging us! I know that it is not a lot of money-but it is the PRINCIPLE OF THE MATTER! Our legislators cave to the lobbyists (money talks) at every little whim. Most of us just have to lay down and take it, because the lawmakers don't really know, or even care, about what the people they "represent" think! All we can really do is gripe about it at bars and places like this because we don't really know how to get our opinions out. I suppose a bunch of guys could get together and hire someone to bribe (that is pretty much what lobbying is) our wonderful elected "representatives" at the capitol to counter all these B.S. laws, but I doubt that will happen. Not to digress, but the cigarette "fee"(tax) is a great example. I smoke. If the law gets repealed, do you think all the money that I have overpayed will come back to me? Nope. Do you think the same thing will happen with the trail fee? Probably. It will most likely be either eliminated or tweaked, but the little windfall will benefit the State and not necessarily us. These politicians are very clever, and very sinister sometimes. Let's just hope that we don't become the same as Canada (did I mention that Canada sucks?)

[wally-eye]

Any idea how much it costs to purchase and run a groomer these days? Us dedicated snowmobilers need to keep what we have going or we'll never get it back. Our 2004 Tucker cost $135,000 without the drag. In Scott County (Sno-Trails) we have 3 groomers we are making payments on. How do you think we make these payments. Please support snowmobiling for yourself and for your kids and your kids kids. I've been a member of MN-USA for 11 years and will continue for the rest of my life. I've also been a member of the Belle Plaine Borough Riders for 11 years. We have about 35 members, but only about 8 of us maintain the trails year in and year out. The trails go in & out if there is snow or not. Please don't give up on snowmobiling and it's future. We can't afford to lose the support. Join a club and join MN-USA. Please be faithful to your sport.

[Shane683]

Very good post Wally-eye!! I agree with you 110% I am also a member of MNUSA and 2 local clubs. We're in the same situation with only a few active members who do all the work. I would also encourage people to join a club - it takes alot of $, time, and manpower to mark and groom the trails.

[BUSHWAC]

As much as I know people are going to disagree with me I still think the license fees and registration fees in Minnesota are very reasonable. If I add up every license and registration for a year its probably under $200.00 and I am talking, Boat, ATV, snowmobile (divided by 3 for length of tabs), fishing, small game, state duck stamp, pheasant stamp, trout stamp, big game, shelter license and I am sure I missed some. Now someone can actually add them up for me and tell me that I’m off by $50.00 bucks or so. I can tell you that I would have paid more to have the trail on the north shore re groomed for that 40 mile jaunt back to the cabin Friday night. We have excellent options for outdoor enjoyment in Minnesota and if some of my fees end up in the general fund who cares. With my fees I pay each year I have access to hundred of public accesses at lakes, great ATV trails, many acres of wildlife management areas, landowner access to trout streams, stocked lakes with beautiful Rainbow trout ( see duffman in photo forum winter trout) not to mention the fabulous trails that are well marked for my snowmobile. I spent $150.00 just on fuel this weekend to sled on those trails and people are griping about an additional $16.00. how cheap can you get!

[Walterwontfalter]

How much is the cross country ski trail permit?

How much do rollerbladers, walkers, and bike riders pay?

[MnIceman]

I too have been a member of MNUSA for 11 years but am starting to get a little disgruntled with them . They seem to make this a rich mans sport and think that everyone can afford fees if they themselves can afford it. I personally know of at least 4 families and 2 individuals that are giving up because of the cost and they just don't have the money because of employment problems or the size of their family. Their sleds are for sale or already gone. Their kids are really depressed this year because they loved snowmobiling. I still bought the permits because I'm fortunate enough to be able to afford it. But I do have less people to ride with this year. As for joining clubs . I'm really disappointed at them. I've talked to their guys on the local trails around Cambridge and learn of where the meetings are and when. MNUSA tells me of these clubs and I can't seem to find them when they are supposed to be there. How does a person help out if they don't seem to want it. You guys that are in clubs, what other fund raising events do you hold over the year to help offset costs?

Like I said before in other places, I beleive that the roller bladers, bicyclists , hikers and snowshoers should have to help pay their share on the state and local trails.

[wally-eye]

Maybe your local clubs need more help. Volunteer to be an officer for them. Or just call the president and say hey I'm hear to help what can I do. Bring your friends with. Our club would be ecstatic to hear from some new volunteers. You should be able to find the club contact on the MN-USA HSOforum. As far as fundraisers go, we tried some things a few years back. We tried a calendar where you had daily cash winners. We tried weekly bingo and pulltabs. They turned out to be too much work for the small amount of volunteers that we have, plus the trail maintenance that has to be done. (bridge building, grooming, signage, landowner permission, etc.) It all comes down to bodies willing to help. A good snow year usually helps some, but we can't seem to get them recently. We also provide a landowners picnic every summer to pat the landowners on the back a little. We usually serve about 250-300 people to a chicken feed.

[Shane683]

Our club has an annual Radar Run (which we've had to cancel the last 2 yrs. ), a cash raffle, and a "Fun Night" to help offset our grooming/insurance costs.

[minneman]

Id like to add that I was stopped this past weekend by the sheriff while on sled, I was on the shoulder of a hwy waiting for him to go by but he stopped in my way, I got off to talk with him, he said "you need to stay on the trails" I said, I thought I was..? he went on to say that he'd been chasing sledders all day and land owners are getting fed up, and we may loose some of the trail sys.

I agreed, so I ask him, where the trail was from here, since the signage is minimal at best, he pointed in a direction to go, he didnt even see that I didnt have a sticker.

In addition to the minimal signage, our trails were groomed today, I guess they must be getting some money and figured the inch we got last night needed grooming, however,it seems that the operator of the groomer was also at a loss to where he was sposed to go,.. on the wrong side of the road, crossing the roads where there was no "stop/turn" signs, and this was observed in more than one area. whats up with that?

Im not complaining, i havent paid my $16 yet. but if that cop would have wanted to go for a ride I could have shown him why I am confused, and probably many others.

[wally-eye]

Are you a member of the local club? If you were, you could volunteer your time and help put additional signs in to make the trail safer and you could learn to drive the groomer and groom the trail. Not to be a (Contact US Regarding This Word), but this is the stuff I hear all the time and the first thing I ask is are you a member of a club. Please support your local club & MN-USA.

[CatManLee]

I think this really depends on how much you use groomed trails? I did not buy a sticker, and I won't buy a sticker. If I used groomed trails I probably would'nt have a problem with it. However I never use groomed trails, the only thing I use my sled for is pulling an Ice House, so I am not going to pay for something I don't use.

[shadyzr]

A few years years ago, a friend was telling me about how he helped his step brother open gates and put up trail signs in the fall. His step brother has belonged to the snowmobile club for a lot of years. He told me of how they would work for about 3-4 hours and at the end of the week turn in hours to be payed, and put down 10 to 15 hours. sounds like fraud to me. I said something to another member about it and the reply was,"Oh he would'nt do that". I wonder how much of this really goes on today? After this year I won't be buying a sticker. The ditches are smoother and more snow. There are lots of countys that are brush cutting and mowing ditches more every year. Soon I suppose the government will start taxing fresh air that we breath, OPPS! Don,t want to give them any ideas.

[Down Deep]

Nice thing about Minnesota is that we live in a state with a governor who advocates no new taxes......but loves fees.

[PierBridge]

Quote:

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After this year I won't be buying a sticker. The ditches are smoother and more snow. There are lots of countys that are brush cutting and mowing ditches more every year.

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Just so the ditches your riding are not being groomed you'll be fine.

Some of the money go's to guy's like this who are out grooming late at night.

He was lucky and got out, buy it was a long cold walk home.

FM THREAD

[knoppers]

trail grooming is paid by the clubs untill the season is over, then give a report to the state on man hours or miles groomed to get the money from the grant-in-trails program.

what [PoorWordUsage]es me off is here in sherburne county, they were grooming trails with very little snow, almost non-ridable amounts, that is a waste of our grooming funds and tax payers dollers. I know they should go through at least once without good snow cover just to make sure the trails are clear, but to keep grooming unridable trails needs to be addressed.

like I said earlier, I support the trail sticker.

since non-residents have to pay extra for fishing or hunting, why do they not have to pay more for a trail sticker? minnesota is a winter wonderland that out of staters come to ride, even from onterio. they should have to pay more.

quote from someone from onterio;

the trails in minnesota are the best I have riden, and its a bargin since I have to pay over 200 bucks to ride here in onterio.

[snowman678]

Quote:

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what [PoorWordUsage]es me off is here in sherburne county, they were grooming trails with very little snow, almost non-ridable amounts, that is a waste of our grooming funds and tax payers dollers. I know they should go through at least once without good snow cover just to make sure the trails are clear, but to keep grooming unridable trails needs to be addressed.

I would like to invite you to attend a club meeting so that you can address this issue. The Big Lake SnoCruisers meet on the first Thursday of each month @ 7:30 p.m. at the Sherburne county trail shed (located approx. 2 miles east of Orrock on Cty. Rd. 4). The best way to get things you don't like or approve of changed is to get involved.

The following statement is NOT directed toward any individual here. I get very sick of the constant b#$%&ing I hear about quality of trails, not grooming enough, grooming too much, the list is pretty endless & when I ask the person/persons if they are in a club and getting involved to do anything about it, 99% say no. Most say they think their registration fees etc. should exempt them from doing any work. I pay all the same fees as anyone else, and I would estimate that I spend over 80 hours a year of my time volunteering to work on keeping trails open and maintaining them (no pay) there is no magic "trail-fairy". I could go on for hours on this, but I'll spare you all, sorry for the rant, I'll step down from my soapbox.

[shadyzr]

If they are groomed I can cross the roed and ride the other side. If both sides are groomed, I can go around on someones property, providing I know them. And where I go sledding I know just about evryone. Hunting buddies, fishing buddies, camping buddies. In other words people that I've knowen all my life. People I've gone to school with. I've knowen some of the people more than 35-40 years.

So I would not need a trail sticker. I know just about every deep woods trail through most every bog swamp. So I don't need groomed trails. I feel like me and some others that don't like the 16.00 trail sticker, are the enemy because we don't want to buy the sticker. As long as no law is being broken, whats it to anyone?