How MN can get big bucks

[Mark Christianson]

Bingo

[Quackaddict9]

BLACKJACK wrote:

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For you trophy hunters, that’s why they call it hunting and not shooting. The big bucks are out there, just look at the pictures in the Outdoor News or your local hunting shop. EVERY WEEK Outdoor News prints big buck pictures from all over the state. Get out there and HUNT them down.

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Okay, I dont agree or disagre with you but you said for us trophy hunters that there are big bucks out there and yes we are hunting after them and we pass up the little bucks then other people shoot it, and that is kind of hard to get a trophy that way, and all the land next to people they might shoot anything they see or not. Not all the bucks in Outdoor News are from MN. I would say most of them are trophy hunters that pass the little ones up nor the ones that just got lucky. Last year we had one guy not too far from us who shot a nice 10 and it was his biggest deer in 25 years. My brother tells him he passed up a spike and he replies "You cant do that!", i thought that was funny.. I am not saying your right or wrong.

[buzzsaw]

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You ask why shooting does is important?? It is a major objective for a sound management program, a 1:3 buck to doe ratio would be ideal, however difficult to achieve. The benefit of doe harvest is the effect on deer density, sex ratio and habitat quality. Also, shooting the does earlier in the season is also of benefit from a management standpoint as it results in a higher percentage of does bred during their first cycle, assuring the fawns will be born earlier in the spring, and given adequate time to mature prior to the harsh winter. Also shooting the does earlier in the season has it's advantage because typically the doe will drive her yearling buck away prior to the following breeding period, forcing him to take up residence several miles from where he was born.

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Stratosman, this post explains why taking Does is so importabt and is stated perfectly! Unfortunately we can't all be on the same page.

[lawdog]

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Stop killing little bucks... start seeing big bucks.

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Boil it all down and that little sentence right there about says it. Throw in decent habitat and good doe number controls and you are there!

[finny]

The best way I see to fix the problem and people may or may not agree with me but, I don't think they should have the gun season during the rut.

[almostthere!]

First of all, I would like to think that most hunters are ethical. It is funny how some hunters bring in the "ethical" issue(s) whenever they voice their biased opinions.

Just because you or the next guy passed up a buck due to whatever reason you or that next guy may have at that particular point in time does not mean that the guy farther down the slope should also pass it up. Some of us hunt for quality meat, some hunt for quality antlers, and some of us are just out there to enjoy a good, quality time.

A trophy is exactly what the word implies at the instant a hunter decides to take the shot. Since we all hunt for different reasons, all deer taken are trophies. I personally prefer the fawns and I do shoot fawns: heck, I will shoot any deer I see because my party is huge and everyone wants a different type of deer (fawns, big does, little does, old bucks, little bucks, etc...).

To quote some a fellow FM'er, "antlers do not taste good no matter how long you cook them".

[nolte]

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Some of us hunt for quality meat, some hunt for quality antlers, and some of us are just out there to enjoy a good, quality time.

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I agree alot with this statement. The only problem is that it is very hard for all three to happen at the same time in most cases, without some sort of a restriction. As long as the deer populations are high(thus antlerless deer are very common) an antler restriction would allow all to happen. In areas of a real low deer density it might not, though.

My decision on this came after getting another little buck and putting the smaller rack in with the pile of other ones. If you aren't going to put it on the wall, let it go. If you want backstraps, blast a baldie.

The biggest hurdle to get through is the notion that every buck you let walk is shot by the next guy. If you can get the majority of guys in an area to adhere to this, the results will amaze you.

I don't agree with the argument of not wanting any more restrictions on hunting. The best way to manage any sort of wildlife is to micro-manage and not try to do it on a broad scale.

[hobbydog]

The last thing I would want to see is someone having to pay a fine for shooting a deer that does not quite measure up. I have seen massive 6 pointers, dinky 8 pointers and everything in between. There are a lot of hunters of all ages that have never had an opportunity at any buck. There are hunters that start hunting later and a fork horn is a trophy. Not all deer stand around long enough or close enough in the rifle zone to get an exact score on the rack. I have shot "does" before that had spikes when I got to them. Any fine would feel like I did something wrong when in reality I killed a deer in a state where overpopulation is a problem.

Not all areas of MN are alike. In fact we have very diverse deer hunting opportunities in the state. From the big forests in Ely with large tracts of public hunting land and low deer per square mile with preditation and winter kill. On the other end is the prairie deer in ag areas with shotgun only. Any regs need to take these factors into consideration.

The answer is education and voluntary restraint. Peole have to shoot does....especially in high deer population areas with lots of private land.

[swamptrailer]

A trophy is any deer shot. Here we are complaining about not having trophy bucks. They are out there. Only a few being shot makes even more of a trophy. minnesota DNR has did a great job. 50 years ago you were lucky to see a deer in Deer season let alone worring about a buck with big horns. So enjoy hunting, enjoy seeing deer and enjoy eating deer. manage deer on your property for trophy bucks if you wish. but please leave public land, public and not ask for antler restriction and let the person decide what a trophy is to them.

[Tyler D]

It is a very good point that everyone hunts for different reasons, and I understand that. However I do think that everyone would like to see more trophy bucks, no matter what your reasons are for hunting. Does out number bucks at least six or seven to one in my area, if you want meat shoot a doe, they are more plentiful anyways, antler point restrictions would allow meat hunters to get their deer while still giving a chance for bucks to grow old.

My dads brothers and their freinds hunted the land we have now for the last twenty years, until my dad bought it from my grandpa. We still told them they could hunt, but now they would need to pass up the small bucks. On the first day one guy seen a basket rack 10 point yearling that I passed up three times with my bow, and all he did was complain about how he couldnt shoot that buck. Well the only reason he even saw it was because I let it go earlier, that deer was a 10 point yearling can you imagine what it will be in two or three years. But they havent come back since, because they had to let the small bucks go.

My dad and I spend countless hours improving or land, putting in food plots, and scouting every square inch of our 230 acres. It just amazes me how little importance people place on deer hunting until they have to let a small buck walk, then its like the end of the world. Just because you dont get a deer doesnt mean your hunt wasnt successful. 90% of the fun in deer hunting is just being out enjoying nature, getting a deer just tops it off, and getting a trophy buck shows that all the work you put in finally paid off.

[nolte]

Tyler

I agree. It seems after you see a few larger ones(even if you don't connect), you can't wait till it happens again. They don't have to be these huge super giants either. I think if more people got to experience that, they would feel the same and let a few smaller ones go.

The most important thing is to always enjoy the time you spend outdoors with good company, cause it's way too short in my opinion.

[walleyeguy23]

I am all for letting smaller bucks go. However, I hunt in zone 410 and we get 2 days to hunt. It is really hard to let smaller bucks go if you want to shoot a deer. I am still an advocate of letting them go, but I KNOW that the guys adjecent to our land would never and do never let them go. Is our 160 acres large enough, that we could see a difference, while knowing others will shoot them? I dont know. I wish the state would open up our season to a 9 day hunt. That would help alot. I would be all for a minimum rack imposed regulation too. I shot a nice 7 pointer this year, not big, not small. Part of me wishes I would have let it go till next year, and the other part doesn't, because he probably would have been shot a few hours later. It's alot like fishing in some ways. One year, people can't throw enough +20" plus walleyes in the livewell, have all their friends come and limit for weeks on end, then then next year they complain of only dinks.

That's why my hotspots stay quite:)

[Nova]

Again I agree with the QDM theory and we run our own, I just don't think we need the government involved. We let little bucks go and shoot does and have gotten all but one adjacent landowner to do the same, but if someone has their own land and wants to manage it their way they should be able to. It's called freedom and people die for it every day. What I don't agree with are the antler restictions. There has got to be a better way limit shooting 1.5 year old bucks. Several of the deer we passed on this year were 1.5 year olds with 8 point racks. Basket racks, but 8 points. These could legally been taken in most antler restricted areas. Just my 2 cents.

[Sid]

I agree that government shouldn't be involved with antler restrictions, although in theory their premise is good. One thing that it would accomplish in western MN is that the majority of bucks shot on private land are probably shot while making drives. If a 1 1/2 year old buck runs out full speed by you and its more than 20 yards away, its going to be pretty dang hard to count 4 tines on one antler. Basically you'd have to let it go. I'm sure some would shoot if its questionable and ask questions later. Some small bucks would still get shot by hunters in stands where they could figure out if there's 4 points or not.

To tell you the truth, if we could just get a year where for whatever reason, no deer were harvested, I think we'd be in pretty good shape, the little bucks we see seem to have decent genetics, at least some of them anyway, and hopefully if no does were harvested, the herd would become at least a little healthier.

I don't think you guys realize how serious the situation is with the herd in some spots. We probably saw as many bucks as does last weekend. They just aren't there. So in this particular case I strongly disagree with harvesting any does.

[shae1986]

Antler Restrictions.

The main way for us to see more bigger bucks is with the antler restrictions. I am all for them. I have downed two does this year so far and am now waiting for MR. BIG to come walking out. Now the people who are against antler restrictions are the people who shoot smaller bucks bc they say if its brown it down. I know there are a lot of people with this mentalitty and i also realize that there are some people that say if its brown its down but still wont shoot any small bucks.

I just don't see the problem with antler restrictions bc then everyone whould have to abide by the same laws. If it was a 3 point on each side restriction then your neighbor wouldn't be able to shoot that fork horn buck that you let go 2 hours ago. Where i am hunting now, restriction not a huge deal bc we employ the let all small bucks go and so do the people that hunt next to us, and yes there are some large deer around.

If you want meat shoot some does, there are a lot of them like Tyler stated earlier.

Good Luck all

Andrew

[Sid]

A major reason I'm not totally on board with hard antler restrictions is because deer in the "gray area" (1 1/2 year olds) make up a large portion of the deer herd. I think there will be a fair amount of wasting of animals by people who think its OK to shoot and ask questions later. If it weren't for that, I'd support it. Actually, I wouldn't be upset if they did it anyway.

[nolte]

I sat down with my grandpa and talked deer hunting with him one day. He is the old school type with the old red wool clothes and such. Anyway, we got on the topic of why in most of the old hunting pics we had of our family, how there were more large rack type bucks in them. He had some neat answers and it made me think a bit. If you look at many of the record books, you'll see that many of the ones on top came from way back. Now a lot of it has to do with less hunter, less harvest that sort of stuff. But the stuff that caught me in our conversation were this.

Back then noone ever posted their land. People were respectfull when they were on other's land and they were the same on yours. Now the deer have large sanctuary areas where they might not get hunted all season, or only for the first couple days. It is hard to effectively manage a deer herd or get a crack a bruiser when you have a checkerboard of land the people can access to hunt. The other answer that I thought was interesting was that nobody had scopes and most used 30-30s. The killing range of a 30-30 isn't near some of the more modern cartridges, so your shots were closer. Plus without a scope you couldn't tell if a deer that were out further (say 200 yards) was a little buck or not. Without any doe tags, you had to be sure that the one you shot at was a buck and many times to be certain you had to see a large rack.

I think that would be one benefit to a point restriction. It would make most hunters take a closer look and be more selective of their shots. It might limit the ones that are blazing at brown a bit more and create a safer hunting environment for everybody. Also, with more mature bucks around they would be the ones breeding the does instead of just any buck. This increased competition would make them more liable to travel during the daylight, instead of the nocturnal state that most are in.

[deeky]

I think we need to be careful on the blame game as well, but for slightly different reasons. It has been my experience that some areas just don't produce the big bucks that other areas do, whether it is available forage, genetics, etc. I grew up hunting NE South Dakota and we rarely ever saw anything larger than a 8 point, hunting plenty of public and private land. Maybe once or twice saw a big 10 pointer. Maybe not a big deal one or two years, but 14? I think there are just some areas that do not produce as big of bucks, so take it easy on the DNR and other hunters.

Thunderchicken - where do you hunt in SD? Those tag numbers sound a lot like the area I've hunted.

I would also have to agree with the SD lottery system. Much better control over the state herd, and we never had a problem as residents getting licenses in the counties we applied for - NEVER. We may not have gotten the Any Deer permit, but we were still out there hunting. Yes, there may be more deer hunters in MN, but there are also a lot more deer. I also like the longer, single season in an area, not 3 different seasons to figure out.

Deeky

[buzzsaw]

Alot of great points posted, unfortunately getting everybody to agree will be impossible. It has been mentioned, but it all comes down to people harvesting more Does and passing on smaller bucks... if you unfortunately hunt in an area will just smaller bucks, there are several reasons why they're small...we can all figure this out as well. I would maybe suggest trying another area or try and lobby everybody who hunts in your area to get on board and try and shoot more Does and no small bucks... good luck with that, but it's worth a try.

[HC Eye Hunter]

I am with you on this one Sid. I too think there would be an awefull lot of shoot first, ask questions later situations. I also see a lot of 4x4 bucks that are only a 1 1/2 old so esentially we would still be killing off young, good quality 4pt. bucks and leaving the inferior spikes and forkys. Besides, what gives anyone the right to tell any hunter young or old what kind of buck they are allowed to take? Even if I am for passing on smaller bucks I don't feel I have the right to dictate what kind of buck anyone else should shoot!

I am all for a well thought of drawing process in which I believe would be equal for everyone. Kansas,Iowa, Nebraska and the Dakotas have us hands down on QDM so why recreate the wheel? Why not go with a proven management plan that works in these states? When a hunter gets selected for a buck tag in these states they feel fortunate. I feel this in itself would make a hunter more selective on what he or she shoots.

[SXViper]

I get a kick out of all the people that say they are going to wait for MR BIG to walk by. If you were really into trophy hunting you need to put the time and effort into it. Not just sit in your stand and wait fro MR. BIG. I dont think there should be an antler restriction at all. After all it is still called deer hunting not antler hunting, isnt it? If we put on a restriction 3 years into it people would say, "I dont even see small bucks anymore" because the bucks would be more mature and therefore would be much wiser. The guy just sitting and waiting for MR. BIG to walk by his 4x6 fully enclosed heated stand still wouldnt shoot a trophy.

Brian

[Nova]

ROGER THAT VIPER!!!

[swamptrailer]

"Now the people who are against antler restrictions are the people who shoot smaller bucks bc they say if its brown it down. I know there are a lot of people with this mentalitty and i also realize that there are some people that say if its brown its down but still wont shoot any small bucks."

Well I am against antler restriction and I have shot nice bucks. But I have also shot small bucks. I am completely against antler restriction. I remember shooting my first buck and it was 1 1/2 years old. I have also shot a140 class buck. That first buck and everyone in between have been trophies to me. Now with antler restriction somebody would be telling me I can't shoot the deer I want because need to have bigger horns to be a trophy. That is not right.

[shae1986]

I put in a lot of time waiting for my big bucks so dont' think i sit in a permanent deer stand and just sit their for gun hunting. Thats Bull ****. I put in a lot of time on stands and even more scouting. I bow hunt, Rifle, and muzzleload so i can be selective.

Also I have shot nice bucks and i am for antler restrictions. And EVERY deer i shoot is a trophy for me. I just don't understand, and maybe someone can explain it to me, why people shoot small bucks instead of just shooting does.

Also as i said the people against antler restions are the people who shoot small bucks, and swamptrailer, you stated that you shoot small bucks, of course you will shoot larger nicer deer if you see them, i don't doubt that at all. I honestly don't care what happens with this antler restriction and honestly i don't really care if you shoot the small buck that i let go. Good for you. But i will still let those small bucks go, I would rather not fill my buck tag than to fill one with a small buck. And i know someone will say, well what if you only have one tag and its a buck tag, well then i guess there will be no deer in the freezer.

Andrew

[swamptrailer]

If takes a buck of certain standard to make you happy that is fine. What i am saying that I like to hunt deer and if i harvest a little buck i am just as thankful as it was the next world record because i was succesful in the hunt and I made the decision to harvest that deer. It should be my decision to do it. Just don't make the DNR take that decesion away and support hunting