Ethenol in boat motors

[andy j]

I have been using 10% ethenol blends 87 octane in my boat motor (2 stroke)for the last few years and I have never had a problem, I was told that I shouldn't use ethenol blends. What do you all think?

[gunflint]

Not in my boat or in my truck. Sorry farmers.

[Eric Wettschreck]

In the past there were big horror stories about alcohol ruining motors. Most of the stories were true. Mostly valve stems and guides. This was mostly (mostly, not totally) due to the alcohol of choice was Methanol and not Ethanol. Then Ethanol became the flavor of the decade. At first it had it's problems, now quality is quite good.

If your boat motor is 15 or so years old or newer, it probably won't hurt it. However, ethanol will evaporate much faster than gasoline. Make sure you drain carbs prior to long term storage or gumming will occur.

Older vehicles and motors burning ethanol is a dump shoot. At the standard 10% blend, in most cases, (most, not all)it isn't an issue.

[kpj5br]

I had a personal horror story with it.

I still have to run it occasionally if I have no other choice (no non-ox station nearby), but I avoid it if at all possible.

That stuff cost me $600 last year. The problem is it breaks down, and the alcohol absorbs water, which then gets in the fuel lines, clogs your water-fuel separator (or I should say fills it with water), engine alarm comes on, etc., etc.

I will also say that I ran ox fuel in an older boat (with a 50 horse merc) for years with no problems.

The reason for that difference is the tank sizes. My new boat has a 60 gallon tank, the gas can stay in there for quite a while (more than 30 days, which last I heard is the breakdown period for ethynol added gas), which means you get water problems.

In the old boat, had two 6.6 gallon tanks, the gas never lasted that long, so I think that's why I never had any problems.

[Slyster]

So where does one get pure gas?

[Eric Wettschreck]

Many gas stations will have a dedicated pump with non-oxy fuel. It's labled non-oxy.

[kato811]

ive run it in everything i own an never had a problem with it

[lawdog]

Every small engine manufacturer has dropped its ethanol warning I am pretty sure. Used to be they were scared of it, now they know its fine.

Why in the world anyone would include "not in my truck" is absolutely beyond me. That should NEVER be a concern (unless you have a diesel of course... ).

Ethanol fuel is as good as any and it doesn't finance the terrorists!!!!

[Jeremy airjer W]

I use the cheap stuff in everything. The auger, snowblower, leaf blower, lawn mower, pressure washer, truck, car, and van. NO PROBLEMS! The only thing you have to worry about is the rubber parts possibly drying out in the fuel system components a little sooner.

As far as "not in my truck" goes, non oxy is only available in 93 octane. 99% of the vehicles today only require 87 octane. Higher octane is more resistant to ignition and is only required in higher compression engines. Right now if you fill up a thirty gallon tank at $2 for 87 you'd spend $60. that same fill with 93 would be approx. $65 (it doesn't matter what the price is you always save around $5 based on an average 9 cent spread). Over a 100,000 mile span you just wasted $1110 and you gained absolutely nothing as far as performance, economy, or longevity.

I say "absolutely in my truck"

[gunflint]

My truck is a diesel, and I was referring to the bio-diesel there trying to shove down our throats.

What's interesting is that it sounds like you have a hard time finding non-oxy in the metro. That's not the case here. I certainly wouldn't run it in a gas burning vehicle. But I do run it in all of our small motors.

[Eric Wettschreck]

Just a little fyi for ya, bio-deisel and ethanol are apples and oranges.

The bio-deisel is made from soybean extract. Ethanol is distelled from corn. I don't even know if the bio-diesel is an alcohol.

[Hookmaster]

If you search "non-oxygenated fuel" on Google, the first hit is the Minnesota Street Rod Association's HSOforum. They have of list of stations that carry non-oxygenated fuel dated August 2004. A place to start. I used to used non-oxygenated fuel in my 1999 Yamaha F100. But as a previous post said newer motors are made to run on the regular 87 octane 10% ethanol gas. I used to put the non-oxy in for winter storage but have stopped doing that too. In all my boat and small engine gas, I put in Stabil or Sea Foam right after I buy it. No problems. I've even let the boat sit 6-8 weeks in the fall (shame on me but it's hunting time) with no carb issues.

[carlcmc]

I would disagree that you don't gain anything. I know for a fact that I gain in fuel economy and power. I typically run 87 octane in my dodge dakota (4.3 L v8 i believe). But when I pull my pontoon boat i try to run the high octane. Why? It helps it to stop having to downshift while driving so much. I get better fuel mileage and I can stay in a higher gear longer.

Is that worth the extra cost? It is for me when pulling my boat. Not other times however.

[ChuckN]

I run 87 in vehicles and my local station has 89 for the same price. I run the 89 in all my other engines. Never, ever had a problem with the Ethanol. Even storing it over the winter/summer, if you treat it properly it will be fine.

I have ran the non-oxy in my boat before and to tell ya the truth the performance was not great at all. Rough idle primarily. The motor was rated for 87 octane, stamped label right next to the serial number.

[Giant_Jackpot]

Boilerguy

Don’t forget though that you can distill alcohol from just about anything that is alive or was alive. And you can get oil from corn.

Gunflint,

What is wrong with the bio-diesel? I’m not asking because I am pro bio-diesel, but I have only heard good things about it (mainstream press) so was wondering what you thought.

Carlcmc,

You should be running your truck on third while pulling the trailer. My mileage does not suffer when I keep the truck in third while pulling the boat. Try it next time you are out, you will be surprised at the results. I was skeptical at first since the motor was running at higher RPMs, but when pulling the boat, I get the same distance on a tank as when in overdrive. Much easier on the tranny.

[Chris Haley]

I used to run high octane in my boat only!!! After a thread here last spring about how it takes higher compression to fully burn higher octane, I tried a couple of tanks of 87 in my boat. I run a 75hp mariner and I have to tell you I noticed a BIG difference in the performance and won't go back to high octane.

Now I fish tournaments and guide so the gas isn't in my tank long. The concern I have heard of ethanol mix gas is the break down potential. If a tank lasts the whole summer I would put stabil in with your fill, if not then save the money!!

[korn_fish]

I think bio-diesal can also be made using dead cows chickens etc. There is a redwing company that makes bio-diesel from dead animals. Company is called Fumpa. Just look at fumpa dot com. When a chicken, cow etc. dies unexpectedly, they get picked up from companies like fumpa and are processed. Usually into dog or cat food. Another option is bio-diesel. It isn't just soybeans that make it. Part soy, part animal by-products. Although it markets better if you only say soybean

[Jeremy airjer W]

Carl, I had to use a shovel to clear a path to your reply!

Gunflint, I agree. More research and improvement needs to be done for the biodiesel. I haven't heard any good things about it yet except its renewable.

[Sod Farmer]

Carl -

My own experience is exactly opposite of yours. When I used to tow with my old 1984 chevy (305 cid) the increase in power and mileage was very noticable when using ethanol. The small 305 engine was marginal on power so small differences were easy to notice. I do all of my towing with my Dodge Cummins diesel now so I can't say what differences, if any, there might be with the newer gas engines.

I use alot of diesel (see my screen name) and I am more than willing to pay extra for bio-diesel. It burns cleaner, smells better, and puts fewer dollars in the hands of people who want to kill us. My diesel engines will last longer also. I can't tell a difference in power or mileage with bio-diesel.

This is a fishing site - - - - Why am I talking about diesel?

[Gissert]

The whole bio-diesel thing should get interesting. I hope they can make a viable bio-diesel that won't cause problems soon.

As the government mandates less and less sulpher content in the fuel, the inherent lubricity of diesel fuel also is diminished. This is very hard on injection pumps that are fuel lubed. I add an additive every tank just to keep my $1500 injection pump happy. Cheap insurance.

I ran a tank of B-20 (20% biodiesel)through my Dodge last year, and the truck ran very well on it. Mileage was on par with the regular diesel I burn.

[gunflint]

There are three reasons that I don't burn ethenol. 1,there isn't any available up here.2,we trade in our outboards every year and the manual says non-oxy so I don't want to cause any warranty issues. 3, I read somewhere that it takes a gallon of deisel fuel to make a gallon of ethenol. If that's true, what are we really saving?

My thoughts on Bio-deisel are that I would like to see the market dictate itself. If the state wants to spend tax dollars on bio-desiel research and promotion that's fine with me. But don't force me to buy it. If bio-deisel helps the states economy and is better for the enviroment and costs the same without causing any harm to my engine, I'll buy it. And so will lots of other people. However if it's just a program to help the farmers and make the legislature feel good, I say let the market decide.

[Eric Wettschreck]

I make ethanol for a living, so I should be pro-ethanol. I have no real knowledge of bio-diesel, but I should.

A couple of things I can tell you for sure.

1. If the manufactuer says don't use it, then you shouldn't due to warrenty issues.

2. It does NOT take a gallon of diesel to make a gallon of ethanol. Not even close. There is a lot of big oil propaganda out, people will have to make up their own minds.

3. Ethanol and bio-diesel are 2 absolutely different things. Apples and oranges, rabbits and hippos, eelpout and perch.

[gunflint]

boilerguy,

I'm curious as to what goes into producing ethenol. I don't know that much about it. Not many crop farms up this way.

That's probably why we don't have any up here. Is it available in the metro? Or just in farm country? What is the pump price? Thanks.

[Valv]

Airjer, email me I have a proposal for you Toyota Man....

[Ybone]

Gunflint, I'm pretty sure your gas has ethenol in it up there. By law all gas in Minnesota is 10% ethenol. The exception being some stations have a 93 octane pump without ethenol. I believe it's illegal to put it in modern cars or trucks. There's a sign on the pump that says something like "for use in classic cars, snomobiles, small engines, marine engines, offroad vehicles only". Most marinas offer the 93 octane without ethenol for use in boat engines.

[gunflint]

Yeah, I've seen the sign for the non-oxy. For the price I don't know why anyone would put it in their vehicle.

Maybe we do have ethenol up here. I thought there would be signs about ethenol but maybe not. Goes to show you what happens when you avoid metro areas and drive diesels. I haven't been to the cities since the fall of 98 and haven't put gasoline in a truck for longer.