THROW THE BALL!!!!!!

[metrojoe]

It helps in preventing sacks and fumbles!!!

I'm really getting tired of watching Daunte prance around.

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RAGNAR!!??....BAH!!! BRING BACK HUB!!

[jeffyo45]

I agree completely! After week one everyone was kissing Duante's bootstraps proclaiming him as the second coming of Fran Tarkenton. I said to a Packer fan here at work after week one that I am not a believer in Daunte just yet. He showed no ability to make a quick decision last night. Why in the hell did they not take some shots downfield? Even if you don't complete the pass you have an above average chance of getting a pass interference call. Watching McNafro go through his progressions so quick just indicates how far Stuffedpepper has to go. Also, how does a guy 264 pounds fumble the ball at the goal line? Tuck that pigskin under your belly and hold on with both hands. I am so sick of seeing that. If this keeps up I will be the first to start the Frerotte chant.

[MNice]

I thought he did good last night given the time he had to throwand given the fact that they totally abandoned the run. I wonder what other QB could've done any better under the constant pressure.

[otto_man]

i guess i won't have to worry about any more ripping on the packers from the viking fans. pretty much looked like a mirror image.

fumbling, interceptions, can't score in the red zone, weak defense.

[metrojoe]

I'm not trying to take anything away from Philly they played a heck of a game, but the main reason Daunte was under so much pressure is because he held on to the ball too long.

70 fumbles in 60 games. Somebody has to seriously take a look at this little stat and ask...WHY? Is it really because Daunte can't hold on to the ball or is it he's holding on to the ball too long?

I'd rather see a dangerous attempt to Moss or if nothing else throw it away.

Daunte has to get over his fear of the dreaded interseption, otherwise we'll have to watch them dink and dunk the entire season.

Philly figured it out and shut us down in a hurry.

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RAGNAR!!??....BAH!!! BRING BACK HUB!!

[bigbucks]

Daunte didn't really hold the ball that long in a lot of cases. The line played very poorly & the team was missing 3 very good blockers they had last week. He definitely didn't read a few of the blitzes though.

Don't get me started on the fumble thing though, it's absolutely ridiculous how much he fumbles.

[Farley]

I still can't believe he dropped that one at the goal line. It had nothing to do with pocket protection or anything else besides his case of fumble-itis. So many chances to win the game and they blew them all. Next time it's 4th and goal with inches to go, Tice better go for the TD, getting the 3 points was a dumb decision, I dont care what John Madden says he would of done.

Oh and I really hate that Terrell Owens and the dumb **** running the jumbotron. What a crock of ****.

[B. Amish]

I thought Danute Played alright, besides the fumbles of course!

What really aggravated me was some of the calls the refs were making (like the Owens TD reception) and i thought a lot of the holding calls on our guys were bogus.

all in all its always tough to win on the road!

i would've liked to see one or two deep passes to Moss or Robinson

[Piker]

Sure Daunte fumbled, but the problem was either the line wasn't able to pick up the blitz packages or the coaches didn't prepare them to pickup the blitzes. It's as simple as that. Any other statue of a QB would have been sacked countless times. The line had a hard time when Kearse would shadow and leave a three man rush. Pathetic play by the O-line led to this loss. The special teams was also horrible. Some kickoff specialist.

[Failin'onPhalen]

Firstly, let me say I was born and raised in Chicago, so I am a 100% Bears fan.

What I saw yesterday was poor coaching! Lemme see if I can make a decent argument, based on what I saw.

Quarterback draw...a great play, especially with a horse like Daunte...but knowing he has a problem holding onto the ball, why would you run that play with Daunte near the goal line (I know he has scored a lot on that play, but is that your 'go to' play inside the five???)...I know WHY the play works, but it takes someone who protects the ball. Even if it means stopping short of the goal line. It takes good on-field judgement, Daunte is not there yet.

Play calling...you have to air the ball out...even if you have limited 'deep' threat...it stretches the defense and allows for a running game...you thro too much underneath and soon there will be 8 defensive players in the box and running is impossible then. Not to mention, pass interference possibilities if you go deep.

Time-out w/1:41 in the second quarter. Did anyone else say, "[PoorWordUsage]"... Did they call a time-out to save time if they got the ball back? With weapons like McNabb and Owens, I think they should have concentrated on a good defensive series to get a bit of MO for the second half.

No review...I realize the jumbo tron thing, but don't the Vikes have guys in the booth that could review that...It happens enough, and unfortunately (in my opinion) replay is part of the game, that you should have someone one your side who reviews anything close...spots, catches, fumbles, etc.

That's just a few obeservations...others have made more...I realize Tice is considered a players coach and he seems to be a guy you could have a beer, maybe 10, with, but does he have what it takes to lead a great team to the Super Bowl...my guess is no.

I have a theory that players reflect their coach(es). At times, Tice seems overwhelmed by the game and the split-second decisions that need to be made....In my opinion, the same can be said about Daunte.

What do you think, is it time for Tice to go? In my opinion, he should have been fired when he missed his place in the draft. Prally not wise to send him packing at this time of year, but at mid-season if these things continue to occur, I think he would have to go.

Next week should be fun!

Phalen

Oh yeah, Ragnar was a hall monitor at my high school fifteen or so years ago. He was a mean looking dude, but really a softy.

[This message has been edited by Failin'onPhalen (edited 09-21-2004).]

[buzzsaw]

Okay.. I hate to play the bad call card since it usually balances out but [PoorWordUsage]?
Phillys first drive had a hold on Winfield on a third down stop that would have left the green birds in punt formation (even Madden and Michaels spoke up), a Matt Birk hold on a Duante TD run... ahhhh I don't think so!!! so my math says 14 point swing so far! Now Duante fumbles on the oal line and it's up to the refs to decide on replaying any questionable calls with under two minutes left in the half... nope, it wasn't that close or that important to double check I guess!!! That made me think bad things about our 60 year old refs and there desire to get a free cheesesteak dinner after the game! So Owens catches a TD... wait it wasn't a TD and we didn't toss the challenge flag (Bad Mike Tice!!!) we controlled 2/3rds of the clock ate up 410 yards and it only added up to 16 points! Nice JOB refs! I emphasize the word JOB!!
Listen guys, I hate listening to people complain about the refs but that was a horrible display on their part, even a packer backer buddy of mine thought so on a few occasions for whatever thats worth. I'm sure I'll hear it from some of you... it was a tough one to swallow, I'm sure there will be more to follow.

[otto_man]

i think that birk held his guy on that play and the play to owens, watch it tonight on sportscenter, it should have been pass interference. just my double pennies.

you guys need to get a kicker that's not 80. the day will come, you'll need a 50 yard field goal to win at the end of a game and..............................

[MJR]

I agree there were a lot of bad calls but there were also a lot of good calls that killed our drives.

I think playcalling was a factor also.
1st and goal 3 runs for 0 yds.
I do not recall seeing 1 pass thrown deep to Moss.
I did like to see all of the short passes that is so open almost all of the time why not take it.

I have not seen a MN team with good clock managment in quite a few years. Daunte with a couple of minutes to go throws a 4yrder over the middle....why?

Daunte fumbles a lot, realisticly who would you rather have as a qb? There are not a lot of good ones around as our friends to the East will soon find out? I think he still ended up with a 97 rating last night.

I think the good news is that Philly is still probably the best team in the NFC and Minnesota can surely beat them if we do not beat ourselves like we did last night.

[PikeTipper]

I thought Daunte did an decent job for having such a banged up O line. Boy do we need Jimmy K back to help block on the ends. I too wish they would have taken more shots down field but what I really would like to see is more jump balls to Moss in the Red Zone. Chris Carter made a career here with the jump ball or a fade to the corner of the end zone but it seems like we never give Moss many chances to do the same.

[james_walleye]

37-43 for 350 yards and you guys are ripping him???? Prancing around?? His mobility is one of his biggest assets and a dimension you dont find in many QB's. Even with the fumble Daunte played more than well enough too win that game. Daunte didnt hold, Daunte didnt false start. The guys only mistake was a fumble (yes it was a critical one) and your asking for his head already. Next week when he goes off on the bears then i suppose you'll all be back on Dauntes wagon. The Philly "D" line got great pressure all night long with 4 guys rushing, much less the pressure they got with all the blitz schemes that were being shown.

How can you say he didnt make quick decisions completing 37 passes with the heat that was on him all night??? He constantly read blitzes correctly and hit the hot reciever.

[This message has been edited by james_walleye (edited 09-21-2004).]

[Swamprat72]

I agree that Daunte did a decent job for having very little time to set up on many plays last night. It seemed that on almost every 2nd half passing down there was an Eagle defenseman coming in free, and one of them almost beat Daunte to the spot. The T.O. touchdown was a crock. You are going to be down 24-9 midway through the 4th quarter, why not throw the flag even if you're not sure? The most you lose is a timeout. The replay would have taken back the TD and by rule they couldn't have called a defensive pass interfence penalty. I have watched the replay of the Birk holding on Daunte's TD run and still think it was a good block. At least there is a lot more football to come, and hopefully the Vikes offense won't look so anemic- Stretch the field once in a while!

[metrojoe]

I'm not trying to pin this loss solely on Daunte. And I’m definitely not jumping on the Frerotte band wagon. The loss was a team effort. (10 penalties for 70 yards...ouch?!) Sure Daunte’s numbers are great but if the defense knows he’s not going to throw over 10 yards it makes it a lot easier to defend in the red zone. They can blitz to their hearts content because they aren’t worried about the long ball. He’s got to put it up.

I was listening to the radio yesterday and the subject came up about Daunte throwing the ball up and letting Randy do his thing. The point was brought up that if it were a success it would be hailed as an unbelievable pass and reception, but if it were incomplete or worse, intercepted it would be “what the hell was he thinking throwing into double coverage?! Looks to me like we don’t have to worry about either.

[IFallsRon]

The Vikings will never be a championship team with Culpepper as QB. He's proved time and again that against good teams he makes bad decisions and drops the ball. When the defense can't stop anyone, it's more important for the offense to play flawlessly and I don't see that happening.

[Stratosman]

I disagaree 100 percent, the Vikes can and will be a championship team and Daunte will be the QB we need. His fumble problems have gotten much better since two years ago. His pass accuracy is among the best, his arm strength is among the best, and his decision making is improving. The O line has the problem, it's there job to protect Daunte, if he doesn't have the time he needs, how can you say the fault is his? He was under pressure every single play on Monday and still had a hell of a game. Our QB position is the absolute last thing we have to worry about. Why isn't anyone talking about the kickoff coverage that could have lost the game for us, way to step up and darn near let Philly run one back when we needed a stop more than anything! Anyone seen Chris Hovan around? Is he holding out or something? Cause he definatly isn't on the field! I just think it's hilarious to read the Daunte bashing. Let me ask this, pick me out a different QB that you would like to see tossing for the Vikes? How about Garcia, Fieldler, Grossman? Those boys can light it up. I say Duante is the 3rd best QB in the leauge. If you look at his stats so far for this year, he's even better. I also agree that he needs to stop fumbling, but I think that is improving. I think that make the Vikes lucky that we have a strong foundation to build on. We got to get our defense together, it's assanine to rely on our offense to have to score every possesion just to keep up with the other team. We had Philly beat, if we play them again we will beat them. A few costly errors and penalties cost us the game. I guess we'll see what happens, but ease off the throttle a bit, it's a long season.

[bottomfeeder]

quote:

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His fumble problems have gotten much better since two years ago

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Well, he fumbled twice in that game. That's an improvement?

His worst fault is admitting to owning and listening to Celione Deion, but as Daunte said, we'll keep that on the down low.

[This message has been edited by bottomfeeder (edited 09-22-2004).]

[metrojoe]

This wasn't meant to be a "Daunte bashing" post.

Daunte's stats were great but how many passes were over 15 yards?(over 10 for that matter)

It sure makes it easier for the defense when they don't have to defend the entire field.

I'd of liked to see them try throwing the ball down field a few more times.
The dink and dunk stuff works great but it's too easy to defend after awhile.

[Stratosman]

Was it cause or effect? Did he throw the short stuff cause he was getting pressured, or did they pressure cause he was only throwing short stuff?

[metrojoe]

The offensive line was definitely having their problems but Daunte didn't capitalize when he had a open receiver down field either.

[james_walleye]

Heres the bottom line, if Daunte doesnt fumble on the 2 inch line, Birk doesnt hold on the TD run, and Onterrio Smith scores on the 2nd drive of the game and we dont settle for another FG, no one cares if the ball was or wasnt heeved up too Moss. Sure i love seeing the ball thrown deep too Moss and seeing 60 yard TD passes but its not like the vikes had trouble moving the ball. The vikes were not going 3 and out. This team moved the ball up and down the field at will basically and self destructed inside the 5-10 yard line. If the vikes play a game where the offense cant get anything moving thats the time too wonder why you just dont take some shots deep too Moss. Lets face it, Daunte didnt have too throw deep too Moss to get something going, the vikes just needed too go ahead and punch the ball in the endzone when they got inside the 5 yard line.

[Eric Wettschreck]

Oh, I think I'm gonna stir the pot, but as I read earlier, [PoorWordUsage].

Daunte had good numbers against Philly. The Vikings have good receivers, good running backs and a decent offensive line. So, I feel it's fitting, in a throw the ball thread to say,"RUN THE **** BALL!!!!!"

A running game sets up a passing game. There isn't a linebacker in the NFL that will bite on play action if you don't actually run the ball. Run, run, run, run.....safeties come up, put 8 in the box.....then throw the ball. Now the defense in on their heels and don't know what is coming.

Vikings and NFL history has shown that championship teams have a solid running game. Chuck Foreman, Robert Smith, Walter (sweetness) Payton, Marshall Faulk, Larry Csonka, etc. See the pattern here????

I'm not on or off a bandwagon. I've always been and always will be a Vikings fan.

Ok fellas, let me have it.