Expected worst Deer harvest in 20 years!

[Bureaucrat]

I wonder if John Deere isn't secretly behind the decline in the herds across the midwest? Wouldn't that be ironic? On their last earnings call they spent quite a few minutes discussing whitetailed deer as one of the primary reasons behind their negative outlook for the next fiscal year. Agco has also slashed their capital spending budget through 2016 as farm incomes are projected to be under prolonged assault due to whitetails.

[leech~~]

I wonder if John Deere isn't secretly behind the decline in the herds across the midwest?

[PurpleFloyd]

I wonder if John Deere isn't secretly behind the decline in the herds across the midwest? Wouldn't that be ironic? On their last earnings call they spent quite a few minutes discussing whitetailed deer as one of the primary reasons behind their negative outlook for the next fiscal year. Agco has also slashed their capital spending budget through 2016 as farm incomes are projected to be under prolonged assault due to whitetails.

You could be right. I even heard there was a leaked memo that they were contemplating rebranding under the name John Wolfe.New color scheme too.

[Bureaucrat]

Monsanto will be bankrupted by a herd of does if someone doesn't do something.

[O.T.C.]

It's too bad we don't have more deer this winter as its been pretty tame plowed once on Nov.10th thats it so far. Mild coming soon. Neighbor is feeding 2 deer this winter, he's very concerned, lowest # since 1974 he says, that doe better have triplets this spring and hope her runt doe fawn got bred. Channel 5 last night showed 3 coyotes killing a doe, until a man started yelling at them, the wounded doe decided to run right at the person bleeding and limping along there's 3 dead deer if she doesn't make it now dogs tons of yotes and wolves and as the deer have less habitat to hide in puts more predator pressure on em and were unfortunately high in those numbers making recovery crawl at best. The wolf season must get put back in place. Did I read we have 470 estbalished packs in the state ? And montana lets say wants to carry 500 in total. We almost have more packs with a lot less prey for them, is the problem our metropolitan area ? Montana feels 500 is plenty, cmon Minnesota havent your hands fallen alseep, get off of em and lets get this thing the way it should be, managed by the experts.

[SmellEsox]

All I can say is corn yield is at record highs just about every year. Don't see any shortage of corn produced in the US. I think over 14 billion bushels and MN is ranked third I think after IA and NE.

[leech~~]

All I can say is corn yield is at record highs just about every year. Don't see any shortage of corn produced in the US. I think over 14 billion bushels and MN is ranked third I think after IA and NE.

The new high bred corns are killing the Deer herds! Corn up, Deer down. Think about it!

[delcecchi]

The new high bred corns are killing the Deer herds! Corn up, Deer down. Think about it!

Oooo, maybe BT corn is bad for them?

[ESSGuy]

I am 42, every year the dnr says our herd is estimated at 1 million animals. Not possible. The peak years to me looked like 3 million and these last 2 years seemed like 1/2 million. Why can't they get their estimates closer to what we hunters actually see in the field?

[delcecchi]

I am 42, every year the dnr says our herd is estimated at 1 million animals. Not possible. The peak years to me looked like 3 million and these last 2 years seemed like 1/2 million. Why can't they get their estimates closer to what we hunters actually see in the field?

You are from Sconny. Which DNR are you grousing about? Please specify.

[sticknstring]

That just leaves more room in the woods and more deer per hunter to shoot which should make everyone pushing for audits and more regulations happy.

Not sure if you're being serious or not, but as far as I'm concerned, we're all in this together. Hunters are a minority already, we can't afford to be losing any, let alone 4% per year. I'd much rather have more deer on the landscape and more vehicles at the wma parking lots than having an empty woods all to myself. You can only eat so many snacks and point out so many squirrels to your kids before they say they don't want to go out anymore.

[sticknstring]

I am 42, every year the dnr says our herd is estimated at 1 million animals. Not possible. The peak years to me looked like 3 million and these last 2 years seemed like 1/2 million. Why can't they get their estimates closer to what we hunters actually see in the field?

We've got 3,000 wolves too. The DNR says so.

Is an audit really that terrible?

[O.T.C.]

With that stick, why is our state sitting at near 3,000 when states like Montana with more prey species for them the goal is 500 and they still have elk concerns with too much predation? Plus wolves have moose,Mulies, Whitey's, sheep species etc. If giving the benefit of the doubt if wolves did have a bigger role in the declining moose population here, so we use the cross your fingers approach they don't eventually get em all. Once upon a time think I remembered 1,200-1,600 was the goal, certainly if that doubled which it did that is placing 2x as much pressure on moose and deer when their numbers are already down, weather, and the doe slaughter, now it's having a harder time coming back. It will be interesting to see in 5 years where we are with all of this.

[smsmith]

With that stick, why is our state sitting at near 3,000 when states like Montana with more prey species for them the goal is 500 and they still have elk concerns with too much predation? Plus wolves have moose,Mulies, Whitey's, sheep species etc. If giving the benefit of the doubt if wolves did have a bigger role in the declining moose population here, so we use the cross your fingers approach they don't eventually get em all. Once upon a time think I remembered 1,200-1,600 was the goal, certainly if that doubled which it did that is placing 2x as much pressure on moose and deer when their numbers are already down, weather, and the doe slaughter, now it's having a harder time coming back. It will be interesting to see in 5 years where we are with all of this.

Why do we have that many wolves? Because we have wayyyyy too many city folks who vote for Democrats and who never venture out in the woods. The Cattleman's Association is nowhere near as strong here as it is out west either.

[O.T.C.]

Just did a google, first thing viewed was 2,423 wolves are "estimated" to be in the state. Seems like quite the specific estimate, not 2,450 or 2,500, an estimate ? Maybe we need more math courses, they're just tossing around a number. So to the DNR how about now telling the citizens an "estimate" of how many deer are being killed directly and or indirectly by this wolf population. Think they are still thinning out the weak this winter ? I'd say after -24 this AM most of the feebles are frozen solid. So now the wolves won't target healthy animals and they'll start starving themselves out until we get conditions again that stress some more deer into feebleness. Oh, now I can see why they pushed a halt to the season. When do the people of the state get a say in how many wolves we should be carrying with the volume of available prey, is it the wolfs fault they're numbers grew, they extended into wolfless counties no but its putting more bear, coyote, bobcat, dog pressure on what's left and out there making recovery a greater challenge. Thankfully snow is low at this point, that's good news thus far.

[O.T.C.]

Think I beat this topic to the point we're all looking forward to what hopefully will be on the hoof next fall. My final concern is in places, there's just no deer wintering not that they need to really herd up this Winter. Did some checking of wintering ground areas that have ample food within reach like most winters and there's just nothing there, save my boots shed hunting I guess. If last year was low, I can't imagine in many places it will be any better. My neighbor who has fed deer for 30+ years is now stating he is feeding 0, wild turkeys and a few pheasants is it this winter and here we are with a nice mild winter but there's nothing in 4 of the 5 places I checked and the one with deer is about 1/2 of what is normally wintering there, and wolves are sniffing that area 24/7. I hope they're miraculously someplace else and will filter into the area this Spring. Will have a solid wolf update tonight from Ottertail County, my uncle is out today checking that status.

[smsmith]

OTC..my observations are much the same. I can drive a good number of miles after each fresh snowfall in my area and never cut a deer track. Get close to a standing bean or corn field, then there'll be some tracks...but the are certainly no "beaten down" trails coming to/from those fields.

In my area, I still think it should have been lottery in '14 and again in '15. Hunter Choice was definitely better than Managed though. Sure be nice to not go any more liberal than H.C. for the foreseeable future around me.

[minky]

I think that about sums it up, HC in most areas for next year.

[Bureaucrat]

I wish they'd cancel the 2015 season in my township. It's sad when the hunters themselves are begging for more restraint in harvest.

[SmellEsox]

This is why I've said all along that even HC might be too liberal for some areas in central MN. Back in the 90's, lottery was the typical management strategy. We may have further reduced the herd by having HC. Time will tell I guess. In my area I think winter did more damage east of Little Falls and north. Not so much to the west of here. Hopefully we get some snow so they can do their flights in the areas east of LF. Also, hopefully this mild winter helps doe productivity. Shouldn't have any winterkill to speak of.

[O.T.C.]

You are 100% correct smellesox. I drive weekly from Little Falls to Chico's place on HWY 169 and that is spot on. From actually Pierz east to Chico's place is where I saw the most deer last winter that were in trouble. The route of course is OTC to the Milaca area and my observations were the same. The HC is debatable I guess but I concur, group of 4 shot 2 does and 2 fawns, no problem except when they follow that up with that's all we saw hunting 6 of the 9 days. Aging uncle went to bed too early last night, will get that wolf report for OTC soon. He scouts that area daily and assists coyote hunters in the area.

[delcecchi]

Just came across this article from Conservation Volunteer

http://www.dnr.state.mn.us/mcvmagazine/issues/2014/jul-aug/north-shore-forest.html

A quote or two.

Quote:

"There are places along the shore where, when you look up the hill, all you see are dying birch being replaced by brush and grass," says Dave Ingebrigtsen, assistant area wildlife manager for the Department of Natural Resources in Grand Marais. "You can go miles without seeing many young conifers growing."

Go back 150 years and big white pine, white spruce, and white cedar dominated the North Shore forest where woodland caribou lived. The landscape had far less birch and aspen, less grass, and few, if any, white-tailed deer. Remnant pockets of that forest persist in a few places, such as remote areas of state parks. Yet much of the forest has been changed by logging, fires, disease, and development of homesteads, lodges, townhomes, and roads—as well as proliferation of white-tailed deer.

...

By the 1930s deer were a dominant force. Moreover, deer in the region developed a unique migration pattern that continues today. In winter, deer far inland from Lake Superior head to the warmer, less snowy, south-facing hillsides near the lake. In these deeryards, populations can now swell from dozens to 100 deer per square mile. "It's only for a few months," says White, "but the areas where they congregate really get hammered."

Since the 1980s White's research has documented the profound impact of deer on the landscape. In areas protected by 10-foot-high fencing, where deer couldn't get in, researchers found lush new growth of pines, cedars, and other plants regenerating on the forest floor after just a few years. Vegetation was so thick, White notes, that it was hard to see into the forest, let alone walk through it. Outside the fences researchers found almost no white pine or cedar regeneration. Fewer broadleaf plants were growing.

"We're approaching nine decades of deer over-browsing along parts of the North Shore, and the ecosystem has been permanently altered by it," White says. "The species deer prefer, like white pine and white cedar, simply don't regenerate. The species they generally avoid, like spruce, thrive. The forest has changed based on what deer like to eat. It's less diverse; not just trees but also plants [in] the understory. Deer have a cascading impact on the entire ecosystem—plants, insects, even birds."

....

"It's going to be a struggle because some people want a lot of deer, and that's in conflict with restoration," White says. "The people who want more conifers are going to have to be just as loud as those who want more deer."

The DNR's Ingebrigtsen agrees deer have a big impact. That's why he's planting white pine and white cedar in wildlife management areas along the North Shore and then building fences to keep hungry whitetails out. He says the DNR has reduced deer numbers along the shore. In deer permit area 126 in the state's northeastern corner, for example, the DNR's goal is a 27 percent reduction from 2005 deer populations—from nearly six deer per square mile in spring to four. The DNR has allowed hunters to shoot more antlerless deer and has offered more opportunities to hunt in North Shore state parks. Those moves, coupled with a few severe winters, have reduced deer numbers to fewer than four per square mile this year, according to computer models.

The DNR will seek public input in 2015 to revisit deer population goals along the North Shore. The state's plan for moose in northeastern Minnesota also calls for lower whitetail densities.

"We're working on the deer numbers. We're doing tree planting and protection," Ingebrigtsen says. "A lot of areas can be helped, but it's a long-term investment. You might have to protect a white pine for 10 years and a cedar for 15 years to keep the deer away. It's expensive. It's a lot of work."

...

[hockeybc69]

Quote:

Go back 150 years and big white pine, white spruce, and white cedar dominated the North Shore forest where woodland caribou lived.

Heck go back 150 years and there were potholes, native prairies, bison and a multitude of other things that are gone or on their last legs.....

[NWKR]

What did the caribou eat 150+ years ago? I am sure they let the plants grow to a lush vegetative state just like the guys putting up the fences

Quote:

Since the 1980s White's research has documented the profound impact of deer on the landscape. In areas protected by 10-foot-high fencing, where deer couldn't get in, researchers found lush new growth of pines, cedars, and other plants regenerating on the forest floor after just a few years. Vegetation was so thick, White notes, that it was hard to see into the forest, let alone walk through it. Outside the fences researchers found almost no white pine or cedar regeneration. Fewer broadleaf plants were growing.

Don't get me wrong, I found the article interesting when I read it last summer but it seems like Mark White is interested in a deer free forest. He is also representing the Nature Conservancy on the upcoming advisory team meetings in the East Central block of permit areas. I hope he isn't going to be applying his studies about deer browse based on the North Shore to areas of East Central MN.

[ANYFISH2]

"We're approaching nine decades of deer over- browsing along parts of the North Shore, and the ecosystem has been permanently altered by it."

I find this (true) statement as no more than spin. The timber harvests of past, created the habitat suitable for the whitetail deer. Timber harvests continue till today. And it is the deer, that have permanently altered the ecosystem?

Lets wage war on an animal we continue to create habitat for, and yet blame them for eating what we plant.:-(

I really thought our wildlife section of the DNR's (excluding non-game dept) mission was the CONSERVATION wildlife. They can not succeed in bringing back the ecosystems of 150 years ago. There is no chance, and is a waste. Conserve what we have for the future.