Manziel Debate

[DrJuice1980]

I've seen Clowney play probably 10 times over the past two years and never once was I even slightly impressed.

Lack of effort from a player playing a position that requires RELENTLESS effort is very concerning to me. His own college football coach said he was "a lazy football player". Double concerning.

Makes sense than why he is projected as #1 or top 5 for sure. Maybe these scouts didnt watch the games you watched OR maybe you just dont understand the game of football and you thought he looked bad because he wasnt in on the tackle but did his job to not open up a hole.

Football isnt all about stats. To guys like LMIT it is and theres nothing else. Its easy for him to think that way because he cant comprehend more than reading the stat line and analyzing play is WAY over his head. He makes comments like "you guys act like a 3yr old trying to put square peg in round hole" yet posts a video of JM running around like a chicken with his head cut off, heaving up a duck in the middle of 4 defenders, only from the miracle to happen that his teammate comes down with it for an 8 yrd gain and first down. Like, wow guys look at this highlight! That pretty much sums up LMIT's understanding of the game of football.

Rubes love Rubes.

Hey LMIT:

Rinse, Repeat!

[Juan Grande]

Yes, the pro game is much different than college, much harder in fact. Stands to reason that a player who is going to dominate in the pros should dominate in college right? If not then should we disregard college stats altogether and just draft based off combine measurables?

By your rationale Dr. Juice, we should never draft a QB for fear that he might be the next Ryan Leaf instead of Drew Brees. How about a list of all the bust defensive players taken in the first round? The Vikes have a list a mile long...

[LMITOUT]

Football isnt all about stats. To guys like LMIT it is and theres nothing else. Its easy for him to think that way because he cant comprehend more than reading the stat line and analyzing play is WAY over his head.

He makes comments like "you guys act like a 3yr old trying to put square peg in round hole" yet posts a video of JM running around like a chicken with his head cut off, heaving up a duck in the middle of 4 defenders, only from the miracle to happen that his teammate comes down with it for an 8 yrd gain and first down. Like, wow guys look at this highlight!

Contradict yourself much?

You're so far over your head on this Manziel deal that you can't even make a post that makes sense anymore.

Hint: when you're in a hole, stop digging.

[DrJuice1980]

Well with a top 10 pick you have to be careful. If youre gonna pick apart my posts show your pair and say what you'd look for. Should it just be the guy with the best stats? Im sure we could find some DII guys who have massive stats, do we include them based just off numbers?

There is no direct science. You analyze all aspects of the game. I'd take a guy with average stats that had no support vs a guy who had arguably the best O-Line and best WR in the college game.

How'd they go 9-4 with such a "Great" player? Selfish play, thats how. Learn a lesson from this kids. Football is 100% a team sport.

[zepman]

That's easy...A&M had one of the worst defenses in all of college football last year.

[DrJuice1980]

Contradict yourself much?

You're so far over your head on this Manziel deal that you can't even make a post that makes sense anymore.

Hint: when you're in a hole, stop digging.

How so there big guy?

Hint: elaborate for once, with intellectual input. not some meme

[DrJuice1980]

That's easy...A&M had one of the worst defenses in all of college football last year.

Is that your excuse when he fails to impress in the NFL?

[LMITOUT]

How so there big guy?

Unwind the panties (see above about fits of anger), stop punching at the air, and rationalize it out for yourself.

BTW, Thanks for perfectly illustrating my previous point, RE: haters.

[zepman]

Clowny is the prototypical "work-out warrior". Basically, he's just big and fast...he's not that strong at all.

It's very hard to find anyone calling him a "great" football player...he simply wasn't at SC. It's all about what he MIGHT be able to do if he finally decides he wants to play football.

Lack of effort, desire, and competitiveness are much bigger red-flags than anything that Manziel may have done (off field)as a 20-21 year old kid.

[zepman]

Juice...you obviously never tuned in to an A&M game this year to watch young JF play...if you had, you would have heard over and over and over how BAD the A&M defense was.

There are no excuses...that was a fact.

[Getanet]

It's very hard to find anyone calling him a "great" football player...he simply wasn't at SC. It's all about what he MIGHT be able to do if he finally decides he wants to play football.

You do know he was a unanimous All American as a true sophomore and Defensive Player of the Year in the SEC right?

[DrJuice1980]

Unwind the panties (see above about fits of anger), stop punching at the air, and rationalize it out for yourself.

BTW, Thanks for perfectly illustrating my previous point, RE: haters.

How insightful and intellectual.... I bet your searching for a Manziel circus throw video to post and add to your reasoning for why he will succeed.

[zepman]

Getanet...All "gifts" IMO.

His own coach even threatened to bench or release him from his schalorship/team halfway through the year because of the "cancer" like effect his "laziness" was having on the rest of the team.

41 tackles...3 sacks for the so-called best defensive prospect in years. Give me a break.....

[LMITOUT]

I bet your searching for a Manziel circus throw video to post and add to your reasoning for why he will succeed.

Why would I do that when, according to you, I'm supposedly all about the stats?

Put down the shovel and walk away. No, run, while you still can.

[Getanet]

"Gifts" huh? Didn't know they just hands those All-American awards out. I'll add that to my Xmas list, it will look great on my resume and LinkedIn profile.

There's no question he had a disappointing year this past season, but it's silly to say he did nothing special in college or was simply handed All-American recognition as a true sophomore.

[DrJuice1980]

Juice...you obviously never tuned in to an A&M game this year to watch young JF play...if you had, you would have heard over and over and over how BAD the A&M defense was.

There are no excuses...that was a fact.

Actually I saw quite a few of his games over the last 2 years and saw many parts of his game that were flawed. Like flushing a pocket for ghost rushers, running backwards 20 yrds to gain 2, throwing into double/triple coverage, etc. The difference is I wasnt pitching a tent over that 2 yard gain. If you were at LMIT or Big Dave's house you had to put up the plastic sheet in front of you like you were seated in the front row at a Gallagher show to avoid the DNA shower.

LMIT, is this true? A&M had a bad defense? I thought a great QB solved everything? HAHAHA!!

Rubes love Rubes...

[PierBridge]

I haven't read any of this thread.

Not only do I love Johnny football the Vikings have to get him somehow someway.

It may flop but its worth the risk IMO.

Carry on!

[Getanet]

I haven't read any of this thread.

Do yourself a favor and stick to that plan, unless you want your head to explode.

[FISHINGURU]

I'm starting to hope he ends up a Viking just for the fun of it. If he ends up a Texan,Brown or Raider it won't be as fun anymore lol.

[Slabasaurus]

I haven't read any of this thread.

Summary-

Big Dave 2: Jonny Manziel is 6'6 and a really good footballer.

Lmitout :take a knee for johnny!

Dr.J : NO. JF is a headcase and is 5'10. We need a Middle Line Backer!

Big Dave2: (posts a link of an obscure story about how johnny football is actually 6'3)

Lmit: Dr. J is a stupid head

Dr. J: No, you are a stupid head. How about sticking your stupid head neck out.

LMT: grasping at straws (insert image)

Dr. J: Put your neck out and say what you'd do

LMT: stop digging

Big Dave 2: JOHNNY FOOTBALL IS a 21 Year old kid! He's gonna grow to be at least 6'1!

(FWIW I actually agree with Lmit and Big dave 2 on johnny foosball. Weird, i'm not sure that happens often)

[ozzie]

Getanet...All "gifts" IMO.

His own coach even threatened to bench or release him from his schalorship/team halfway through the year because of the "cancer" like effect his "laziness" was having on the rest of the team.

41 tackles...3 sacks for the so-called best defensive prospect in years. Give me a break.....

Clowney was a freak and the #1 recruit coming out of high school and played like it an animal his first 2 seasons!!! As a freshman had 8 sacks and 13 as a sophmore!!! The kid knew he should have went in the draft after his sophmore season and made a mistake but it was too late so he had to go back to school and compete but he knew that if he got injured his millions would be lost!!! He had a nagging injury that Spurrier didn't think was a big deal but if you are the kid and know that coach don't care about you or your future what do you think he should have done? Go out and risk potential life changing injury to give your college a chance or protect #1 and make sue you are 100% healthy before getting back on the field?

[Getanet]

Clowney couldn't have entered the draft after his sophomore year. The NFL requires you to be 3 years removed from high school. His only option would have been to sit this past season out. I can only imagine how many questions there would be about his commitment to football and quitting on his teammates if he didn't play at all this year.

[fishersofmen]

And we thought there was a circus when they brought Favre in. How many news helicopters for Johnny....

P.S I'm pretty sure they are building Johnny's house right now. Time to replace the Peterson image on the new stadium with Mr. Football.

[BRULEDRIFTER]

Summary-

Big Dave 2: Jonny Manziel is 6'6 and a really good footballer.

Lmitout :take a knee for johnny!

Dr.J : NO. JF is a headcase and is 5'10. We need a Middle Line Backer!

Big Dave2: (posts a link of an obscure story about how johnny football is actually 6'3)

Lmit: Dr. J is a stupid head

Dr. J: No, you are a stupid head. How about sticking your stupid head neck out.

LMT: grasping at straws (insert image)

Dr. J: Put your neck out and say what you'd do

LMT: stop digging

Big Dave 2: JOHNNY FOOTBALL IS a 21 Year old kid! He's gonna grow to be at least 6'1!

(FWIW I actually agree with Lmit and Big dave 2 on johnny foosball. Weird, i'm not sure that happens often)

*Claps hands*

Awesome summary! Spot on!

[BuckSutherland]

If we draft JM, and he comes out to this music I will be a huge fan!!