Gun laws/rights

[Scott K]

amateurfishing I am pro gun, and anti gun control, so it may seem biased, but basically, what they are trying to ban, isnt how the gun functions, but how the gun looks.

They want to ban a semi automatic .223 because it looks like the military gun, but it does not share the same functions, as the military guns. The guns they want to ban, mechanically operate exactly the same as any semi automatic hunting rifle, they just look different. So why are they banning a gun because of its looks? Looks dont make a gun dangerous. A military gun is "Fully automatic" which mean if you pull the trigger once, and hold it down, it will unload all of the bullets in the magazine, usually within a couple seconds. The "semi automatic" gun they are after, functions the same as hunting rifles, if you pull the trigger one time, and hold the trigger one bullet comes out, same as hunting rifles. So they are trying to tell everyone that because one has a handle to hold on to in the front, or a hole in the thumbstock to grip the gun, is somehow more dangerous then a gun without it. It isnt. All it is is appearance, and preference on how you want to hold a gun.

As for the magazines, you have to remember a couple things, one, the 2nd amendment isnt to protect our hunting rights, it is to protect us from our govt, in case they want to take over, it allows us to protect ourselves. So to say a hunter doesnt need 30 bullets in his gun, I wil agree with you on that, he doesnt, but how many bullets a hunter has in his gun, has nothing to do with the 2nd amendment rights. Plus, people other then hunters shoot guns. Think target shooting, sport shooting, competitions. If you were to spend a day on the range shooting guns, would you like to spend your time shooting the guns? Or loading a magazine every 7 shots? You would spend more time reloading the magazines all day, rather then shooting.

One more point is that these scary guns they want to ban, are involved in like 1% of all the shootings, and by banning them, they wouldnt prevent the other 99% of the shootings. Plus, do you think the bad guy that is mentally sick in the head, is going to say, I cant go shoot these people with this gun, because it is banned? Because shooting a banned gun is against the law.

I am sure you have heard the saying, only good guys will be effected by this? How are the other laws working out? Isnt it illegal to shoot people? Kill people? How is the ban on drugs working out? The good guys that wouldnt do bad things with the guns, will obey the laws, the bad guys arent going to care.

I hope some of this was a little helpful?

[Farley]

When our constitution was made was there:

1. Automatic weapons?

No they had muskets. Did they ban bolt actions when they came out? Did they ban pumps? Did they ban semi auto's because they didnt have them when they wrote the Constitution? Did they ban the shotshell? All of those are advances in technology. I'm sure all those things seemed dangerous when introduced.

[Eric Wettschreck]

I took a couple of days off work cuz my daughter and son in law went to Vegas and the wife and I are sharing duties of baby watching. She's asleep right now and I'm watching Doug Koening's Championship Season on Pursuit Channel.

They're doing competitive shooting and boy howdy are these guys good. Long range rifle shots, they have to hit 12 of them and are timed. The rifles and the associated mags they're using would be banned under the current legislation. That's just one example of how silly the current legislation is.

[Musky Buck]

I especially agree with Eric's comment on us hunters/gun owners taking so many precautions no doubt, we have to because we want to own them and most of us want to continue to hunt, we do not want to ruin our life by killing ourselves, hurting a friend or family member, or chance hitting another person with gunfire, no it means too much to the good guys all over the country. Great care goes into handling them, teaching others about them, cleaning and storing them safely, the country would be a mess and out of control if 99.8% didn't do just that. We need to clean up that .2% or whatever it really is, there's no doubt if they want to harm the public and certain weapons aren't available they'll come up with the best plan to carry out their plan with other weaponry or devices. The # 1, 2, and 3 focus needs to start with mentally ill or unstable men and boys, not to ignore the females who need help.

[erikwells]

The government pursuing banning or further restricting guns based on the likeness the gun looks similar to a military style weapon and clip capacity is like fixing the turn signal on the car that won't start. I always wanted to think our politicians were smarter than this but it's a hard sell these days.

[Black_Bay]

If anyone out there thinks this is some part of a master plan to totally remove firearms from the public then would recommend them taking a step back and rethinking the subject.

When our constitution was made was there:

1. Automatic weapons? No. Even now they are illegal to own but for a select few

2. Internet where ppl could buy what they want when they want at a moments notice? All firearms must be purchased through a FFL dealer. They are NOT sent to your home.

2. Were recrational guns made to look like military weapons? Recreational guns WERE military rifles. They were one in the same. BTW up through the Korean War bolt action rifles were used heavily by various military's including our own. They are vertually identical to hunting rifles. (i understand military weapons could have been used for personal use though)

Yes i believe the criminals get off too easy

Yes i believe the value of human life has been lost in society

Yes i believe we need more mental health help in schools

Yes i believe out litigious and medical societies try and find a reason, explanatino, & anwer for everything that usually results in nothing being accomplished.

.....but as a gun owner if you have bought XX number of guns and was limited to the amount of ammo you could legally have at one time per gun (similiar to special limits with fishing), dont you think that would help alot? No. It's not uncommon to shoot 100's of rounds at one setting at the range. Practice makes perfect. the scary part is of all the ppl that want to "stockpile" their weapons and ammo like fort knox just for the heck of it. if there are ammo limits, then there is only so much you could do with one gun at one time, right, if someone sees a person carrying more than 1 gun at time in a public enviroment there would obviously be questions to be asked. much easier to stop than 1 semi auto whatever with hundreds of rounds in pockets, right?

So you must be advocating some sort of tracking of how much ammo a person could buy. I'm sure criminals will follow that law too.

[swamptiger]

You might want to read up on some of the events leading up to the Revolutionary War. The British had the colonies vastly outgunned, but still attempted to disarm them nonetheless...

The British government was not, in a purely formal sense, attempting to abolish the Americans’ common law right of self-defense. Yet in practice, that was precisely what the British were attempting. First, by disarming the Americans, the British were attempting to make the practical exercise of the right of personal self-defense much more difficult. Second, and more fundamentally, the Americans made no distinction between self-defense against a lone criminal or against a criminal government. To the Americans, and to their British Whig ancestors, the right of self-defense necessarily implied the right of armed self-defense against tyranny.

http://www.davekopel.org/2A/LawRev/american-revolution-against-british-gun-control.html

[amateurfishing]

Thx so much Eric

I hear alot the general public is mis informed...then whos job is it to inform the general public so NRA, its members, gun enthusiats, on a very quickly unbiased wide range scale to educate all of those that are mis informed and get it done quickly. Complaining bout first ammendment rights is not the answer, educating the lawmakers and ppl supporting them on why it is wrong needs to be done.

Maybe you are right, maybe i have no business telling a gun owner what they may or may not have. what if i have a gun owner with 10 guns and a stockpile of ammo in his garage, should i feel safe with that next door, maybe someone who could go awall or just likes to shoot stuff up. If he has as much ammo as my local police dept then i have a problem with that, he could be the nicest person in the world but bad things happen to good ppl every day.

I believe my examples matter greatly. Guns were not mass produced back then, they could not be purchased by anyone with a fake identity and stolen cc#, but i will step back on looks, no i guess that does not matter.

Can any gun owner out there tell me what they recommend or suggest instead of claiming that the amendment is not touchable? Are there any groups out there that support the "guts" of any of this proposed legislation but are going bout it completely wrong?

Are there any common facts regarding the horrible events that have happened regarding the shootings in the past 10 years besides non registered gun owners,mental issues, etc.?

I will say i do not understand the need (if u call it that) for high capacity quick loading magazines for anything related to recreational or hunting use.

I do really appreciate the open honest factual dialog.

[Scott K]

amateurfishing

Quote:

Maybe you are right, maybe i have no business telling a gun owner what they may or may not have. what if i have a gun owner with 10 guns and a stockpile of ammo in his garage, should i feel safe with that next door, maybe someone who could go awall or just likes to shoot stuff up. If he has as much ammo as my local police dept then i have a problem with that, he could be the nicest person in the world but bad things happen to good ppl every day.

I just wanted to comment on this part for now. First, who is to say that cop, or your local police station wont go awall, and snap? What, or who would be there to fend them off? Just because they are police, doesnt mean they are any different then the rest of us. They endure lots of stress everyday, and lots of them see shrinks, shouldnt this concern us a bit?

Secondly, 10 guns, and a stock pile of ammo, more then your police dept has. This really isnt a very big number. I own well over 10 guns, with plenty of ammo for them as well. Now, I am not sure hom much my local police dept has, but I cant imagine it is a whole lot. Maybe more, maybe less, to me it doesnt matter. In fact, just for checks and balances, I would hope that some people have a good amount more then the local law enforcement, it intimidates them (local law, govt)not to not mess with individuals.

And for one, you should feel safer that someone next to you is armed, incase you need protection, that is as long as you arent the one to break into his house, or try stealing his stuff.

[jparrucci]

I'm sorry, but I can't help but think this guy is a troll. Guns have been mass produced for well over a century. You used to be able to buy a firearm from the local hardware store with no ID. You used to be able to buy fully automatic weapons.

[amateurfishing]

sounds like i need alot more gun info.....

had no idea military weapons & recreational use ones would look the same, sounds like a really bad idea to me

i have not heard any ideas regarding educating the public or how to make society safer (and i dont buy more being the answer).....and maybe you dont need to since all you have to do is say its my 2nd ammendment rights.

i do appreciate ppl saying how they are law abiding and do whatever it takes to do their part for storage, training, education, regarding gun ownership, im sure that is very true and the media should be reporting that more as well.

Is there any way the NRA could be more helpful or positive toward general public communication instead of the answer "we dont need less guns, we need more"?

thx everyone, i appreciate the comments

[jparrucci]

Also, I can assure you living in elk river that you have a neighbor who has more than 10 guns and more ammo than your local police department. I just hope all of us gun rights advocates take notice of what we are up against. No offense to the poster, but if the general public is this misinformed, we are all screwed.

[amateurfishing]

I'm sorry, but I can't help but think this guy is a troll. CARE TO ELABORATE? Guns have been mass produced for well over a century. You used to be able to buy a firearm from the local hardware store with no ID. You used to be able to buy fully automatic weapons.

[jparrucci]

The NRA does much public outreach, especially when it comes to safe handling and storing of firearms. It is not their job to inform the public, it is the public's job to inform themselves. Although it is the best interest of the NRA to do what they can to tell the truth about firearms.

[Goose205]

I assume that the reason that he made the troll comment is because many of the other people have responded to almost everyone of your questions/comments with information to prove you wrong, yet you continue to come back with the same comments and thoughts that were just proven incorrect. To top it off, "your comment that more guns is not the answer" is laughable. Look at the major metropolitan areas that have gun bans, or harsh gun control laws, they typically have some of the highest crime rates in the country. Here is a video that gives you some more information to show that gun control is not the answer.

As it describes, violent crime increases as the gun control laws increase. So if you want to be in a country that has higher violent crime rates, then keep supporting gun control. I know that I sure as heck do not.

[amateurfishing]

Also, I can assure you living in elk river that you have a neighbor who has more than 10 guns and more ammo than your local police department. I just hope all of us gun rights advocates take notice of what we are up against. No offense to the poster, but if the general public is this misinformed, we are all screwed.

I would not say mis informed as much just what i think i know and no one to tell me different. FYI, what you may not understand is even though i may disagree, i am trying to help you out by educating myself, because as you put it, who knows how many more of me are out there. What % of population knows nothing bout them? Possibly more than we think?

Is there any possible common ground in any of this gun control agenda or does there even need to be?

I know nothing bout guns, maybe held/used them total of 6 times in my life from shotgun clays to indoor target practice, never actual live hunting or never a handgun.

[swamptiger]

Quote:

I would not say mis informed as much just what i think i know and no one to tell me different. FYI, what you may not understand is even though i may disagree, i am trying to help you out by educating myself, because as you put it, who knows how many more of me are out there. What % of population knows nothing bout them? Possibly more than we think?

Is there any possible common ground in any of this gun control agenda or does there even need to be?

I know nothing bout guns, maybe held/used them total of 6 times in my life from shotgun clays to indoor target practice, never actual live hunting or never a handgun.

As someone who grew up in a rural area, this is sort of hard to believe, because guns are a way of life for most rural folks, but I can see where you're coming from if you are from the city.

When I went to school, (more years ago than I really care to think about) firearms safety and gun training courses were offered as a standard part of the school curriculum, or maybe extra-curriculum - don't really remember for sure.

But it might be an option for urban schools to offer gun training and firearms safety through community ed or something..

[swamptiger]

Quote:

I will say i do not understand the need (if u call it that) for high capacity quick loading magazines for anything related to recreational or hunting use.

This is a faulty argument because part of the reason for owning a gun is for self defense. I have bow-hunted for deer and elk and have also done muzzleloader hunting, but that doesn't mean I would choose the same weapon for self defense.

[Tom7227]

The often stated claim that those pushing to ban certain weapons because they are black or the way the look seems a bit misinformed.

The concern is that with a pistol grip or a shroud on the front end the gun can be fired 'from the hip' - what some call spray fire. There are some who believe that this capacity is what accounts for the large number of victims in these events.

Many comments are posted deriding the folks who support these laws for their lack of knowledge about firearms and using terms like clip when they mean a magazine. But I think there is a strong parallel when people use the 'black gun' label without considering possible reasons beyond the color.

As for the contention that gun laws don't work - they do. Perfectly? No. But please take a few minutes and check out this report on Background Checks. It shows what I believe to be a significant number of attempts to obtain firearms that were stopped. The disappointing part of the report is the information about the number of prosecutions that followed. http://bjs.ojp.usdoj.gov/content/pub/html/bcft/2009/bcft09st.pdf

[Getanet]

I know nothing bout guns, maybe held/used them total of 6 times in my life from shotgun clays to indoor target practice, never actual live hunting or never a handgun.

Hey, who knew Obama posts on HSO? Just kidding Amaeteurfishing. It's the end of the day and I'm getting squirrely.

I think what you need to know is that "assault weapons" may look like they're out of a Rambo movie, but in most cases they function no differently than many of rifles you'd expect someone to go hunting with.

[skee0025]

As for the contention that gun laws don't work - they do. Perfectly? No. But please take a few minutes and check out this report on Background Checks. It shows what I believe to be a significant number of attempts to obtain firearms that were stopped.

Sure they do stop some from buying guns, if you where to check you would find that the sandy hook shooter also attempted to buy firearms and was denied after a background check was conducted. He also used only pistols. So what they are pushing would have prevented nothing.

[Scott K]

amateurfishing,

Unlike some of the others on here, I actually respect you for coming on here and asking questions. Knowing that some here will blaze you for your concerns.

I am glad you are trying to take somewhat of an open mind to this. It really has a lot more about where you grew up, and how you grew up, do understand each others point of view. If one grew up in rural state, and grew up around guns, they want to protect their rights. If you grew up in a city, or never been around guns, you would think people dont need them.

Kinda like, I see no need for 8 lane highways, to many accidents on them. We should ban them. My town only has 2 lane roads, and there is hardly any accidents, no need for more lanes then that.

I know, bad analogy, but my point is, what is not important to one person in one area, may mean alot to another person.

[bobbymalone]

But it might be an option for urban schools to offer gun training and firearms safety through community ed or something..

maybe with the right training, the gangbangers will learn to hold their guns properly and hit their targets rather than bystanders.

[swamptiger]

Quote:

maybe with the right training, the gangbangers will learn to hold their guns properly and hit their targets rather than bystanders.

Or maybe with the right training, the bystanders could shoot back, and the gangbangers would think twice next time..

[amateurfishing]

i did grow up out of state in a very rural area in an anti-gun family. no big city near us, did college and next 10 years in chicago. ironically growing up in a very rural area where raising beef & pork for slaughter is the norm but buy a firearm for deer or rabbit was thought of as pure evil. been in MN since 98 & with each passing year am having a bigger & better passion for the outdoors. Do have inlaws who have tried to teach me the way of firearms but i completely lacked interest or knowledge. I have even enjoyed ppl talking bout hunting the past few years & would like to try it sometime if time, skill, and interest permit. Father in law owned several guns & a few uncles do as well, i never really understood the interest of killing but much more understandable to me now as i learn and understand the process & mindset of the hunt & the taking of a life when hunting & how big of a deal it is, how emotional, spiritual, etc it can be and not to be taken lightly.

I do respect each and every fact & opinion out there and some have already commented back & put me in my place today. Thx for all the commentary and i look forward to more comments.