People and baiting

[Bear55]

But my point is, if everything was left natural, no deer plots. I am not talking farm fields, just deer plots, then deer would travel better on those small lots. But then you have the large land owners planting stuff to draw MORE deer on to their lands from the small land owners lands. Then the deer no longer travel on the small land owners lands. Only because the large land owners altered things to give them the benefit. What I am saying is, to be fair, they should either ban deer plots, or allow baiting, so the small people have an equal playing field. Instead of just making it, if you have lots of money, then you can attract deer, but if you dont have a lot of land, and money, then you get to find a different spot to hunt. Even though, the spot you had, was good, until the large land owner came and planted food plots, and drew the deer off your land.

If baiting is the great equalizer why aren't your two older neighbors in WI mowing them down? The fact is big or small, the land we hunt is NOT created equally and never will be. Certain tracks are preferred by deer for many reasons, allowing biating isn't going to magically change that. Same goes for big farms vs 40 acres - no matter how much you improve that 40 acres you aren't going to hold as many deer as a guy with 400, there is no way to make everything fair, nor should there be. Private land owners might have an advantage over public land hunters but big whoop, if you are tired of hunting FREE public land and the rules to go with it you are welcome to buy your own land and improve it. If you can't afford it you should be happy with what you have or hunt harder. I hunt 100% public and I am happy to do it.

[Scott K]

Let me re ask you this,

Quote:

Most surrounding states allow baiting, and they have good deer hunting. But MN doesnt allow it, so that makes it bad?

Let me ask you this, do you bait for bear? If so, why is that ok, but it isnt ok for deer hunting? Same aspect, you are trying to lure the bear in, by using food. How is that ethical, but it isnt for deer?

[Bear55]

Deer are everywhere, they are easy to pattern and hunt. Why introduce a controversial tactic when we don't need to. Any benefit comes with twice as many negatives and side effects.

Last time I checked WI is our only neighbor that allows baiting. They also have a bunch of other odd regs (as do most stats) should we adopt all of them? If Wi were to jump off a bridge...

You can't really compare baiting deer to bears, they just aren't the same animal and you can't hunt them that way. It isn't like out west where you can spot and stalk bears. The don't pattern well, have a huge home range, and live in dense woods/swamp and rarely move during shooting hours. It just isn't possible to hunt bears effectively without bait. If you don't belive me just ask the DNR why it is allowed.

[Scott K]

lol, couldnt you just make your land you hunt more inevitable to bears? Or just find a spot that is? I think it was a good comparison.

[bigbucks]

Weak reply, you have to find a spot that bears like to even bother starting baiting they don't roam everywhere like deer... Whatever it's a dumb conversation, we're never going to agree.

Personally my favorite bait to use is nightcrawlers...

[Musky Buck]

Here are facts from the field, my father in law bearless for 6 straight years, bait gets eaten not during shooting hours so he's had some poor luck in that regard, 4 bowhunting neighbors who use corn as bait 3 seasons ago were 20 for 20 before rifle season ever got going, boy my deer sightings were a bit poor that year as there were gutpiles everywhere or so it seemed. I wasn't aware they baited until I walked to a different area and found empty bags under their stands. Here's the kicker, the farmer had like 120 acres of standing corn within 50 yards of all of these stands, 80 acres of cover, the deer still came to the piles vs. the standing irrigated stuff. 20 for 20 true pathetic story that will burn me for years to come, how greedy is that, we share this farm to hunt and they couldn't stop shooting or baiting, so my experience tells me baiting is extremely effective, not just when it's cold and is that fair chase when you have 20 tags and fill them all with archery gear within a months time. Doubt they all got tagged, very unlikely, they all went up north rifle hunting I found out later and they own a meat company, cmon. There are people like that sprinkled all over the state, is baiting really best for the deer and deer hunters in our state, forget the other states ? You have the opportunity to hunt with gun in hand 25 or 32 days, isn't that plenty ? Take your vacation then not in summertime.

[hockeybc69]

I think some of you guys need to get in the woods and breathe in some fresh fall air.

[Bear55]

Sorry it just doesn't work that way. Instead of "lol" I would start learning about bears and bear hunting. Sure some people would shoot bears without bait, you might even have a handful of guys who were good at it but it wouldn't be an effective way to manage the bear population.

[goblueM]

Just food for thought, from the Michigan DNR

Quote:

While a majority of respondents who used bait felt the use of bait increased their chance of harvesting a deer,

most studies show baiting to be only slightly more effective in harvesting deer. A 1999 phone survey conducted by the DNR reported that in Deer Management Unit (DMU) 452, 44 percent were successful using bait, while 52 percent were successful without bait. Winterstein (1992) reported that hunters using bait were 20 percent more effective in harvesting deer (3.8 deer harvested per 100 days of hunting) than those who did not use bait (3.1 deer per 100 days of hunting). In the 1984 survey (Langenau et al. 1985), hunters who used bait were no more effective in harvesting deer (2.4 deer per 100 hunter days) than those who did not use bait (2.2 deer per 100 hunter days). A 1993 Wisconsin survey found that hunting with bait does not increase a hunter’s success rate compared to those that did not use bait. In the survey, exactly one-half of the hunters who used bait during their 1992 gun hunts bagged a deer while 54 percent of the hunters who did not use bait bagged a deer (Wisconsin Bureau of Wildlife Management 1993).

Also, Kilpatrick and Sober (Wildlife Society Bulletin Vol. 30, #3, 2002) radio-collared 44 does and examined their responses to bait sites. They found that bait sites had to be within deer home ranges to be used by deer - that is, if a bait site was outside their range, deer would not use it. Deer would, however, shift their core range slightly toward a bait site if the site was placed inside the deer's home range

[Getanet]

I don't trust anyone who's Sober.

[Scott K]

I have also noticed, after the first day of gun season, you can have all the bait you want out there, and the deer wont eat until dark. But I will say opening days, are usually pretty good if you are hunting over bait.

[deerminator]

I only have two acres of woods (that I own), inside about 10 acres of woods total behind my and my neighbor's houses. Our woods border a cropfield on the other side of a dirt road. And the crop fields are surrounded by much more woods and sloughs, etc. I see plenty of deer on my two "urban" acres, including big bucks, the latter of which unfortunately only really show themselves during daylight for a few weeks during the rut. Inside my 2 acres, I have a trophy rock and a very small watering hole I dug out and lined with a livestock water "dish." Next year I am planting two apple trees in a clearing that has opened up nicely and offers a lot of light.

My point is, you can make improvements to a small amount of land and see deer regularly without bait.

My bait is the cornfield across the road - and it helps me even though I don't own it! I have learned to hunt my woods according to what crops are in and when they come out. When it's beans or alfalfa, which it has not been in 4 years (corn the past 4), I know they will use the woods more during daylight. And how and when they will travel out of my woods into the fields so I can intercept them. When its corn, pretty much forget about daylight sightings or hunting until it starts to come down.

You can still hunt most places successfully without bait, even if the neighbor has better hunting conditions. You just need to know how to adapt your hunting to it.

[matchset]

Deer don't even like corn they wont even look at my buddies pile

[ClownColor]

Ya, and my pile of corn I dumped out is for the squirrels, and the squirrels only, and if I see a deer eating any of the corn, I will shoot them

oh come on...this is too funny!

[jay83196]

I don't buy the study a bit, I don't bait (or at least I don't hunt over bait) but I have put out corn a few times in front of cameras long before I hunt just to check out Whats around (and I like the pictures) and I dont go back for a month for rifle season and within a few days deer (including nice bucks) were all over it. Once corn was gone very few deer kept coming. It not only brings them in much more it keeps them stationary or has them stop when that normally might not stop and give a hunter a shot. Im not for or really against it being legal (if legal everybody has same opportunity to do it) but people are kidding themselves if they don't think it helps and gives a pretty big edge.

[eyeguy 54]

I think some of you guys need to get in the woods and breathe in some fresh fall air.

breathe deeply mark ;>)

[Eric Wettschreck]

My backyard is right around 4 acres. It's bordered by aboot 20 acres of CRP. I have a small (7 trees) apple orchard in the corner of my back yard.

I just looked out the window. There's 5 deer out there eating apples off the ground.

I wonder if they'll be there in a month. Apple fed deer is pretty yummy.

[Boar]

Wheeeeew! finnaly read the entire thread. MY brain hurts again. So 4WE, his argument is to make it fair across the board right. If Farmers can have food plots others should be able to dump bait. Or no food plot an no dumping. Thats ur argument right? If MNtans could dump bait then what would keep the farmer with the right equipment that he has to dump a larger bait, bucket fulls from a tractor or just pull up to a corner of a feild with a grain truck an hit the hydraulics. I can remeber my dad having monsterous silage piles of choped corn in the yard to feed the milk cows during winter. That still wouldnt be fair right? Cause he's bigger right? But if your dumping he can dump too, he just has bigger toys to dump with. The bear comparison? sorry no comparison. Bear are far mor nomadic than deer, an baiting is the only way in minnesota to effictivly manage the population, some can an do spot an stalk but extreamly lows numbers do an have the same low harvest levels. Not even an argument.Sorry but just because some think a bear hunter DUMPS an bucket of doughnuts in the woods hes gona shoot a bear. Man could I argument that for a month of sundays. Sorry People have to open their mind on that one.

My family has riverbottom land of 80 acres, surrounded buy other riverbottom land owners who have plots, an also crops of beans an corn in the sorounding area. My family thinks we need to plant plots to hold deer but if they would spend time, they could figure out that we are smake dab int the middle of it an the deer constanly move thru an bed in our nitch becuse of plots an crops on either side, but we need to plant plots. Certainly know u arnt a lazy hunter from previous post, an yuve worked ur land an are starting to benifit frm it. Thats awsome. Food plots alter deer movement, but so do famers that rotate crops from wheat to beans an corn to ect.. I see it all the time. I also tend to think that the dumping law about spreading desiese is a scapegoat tho, come on, when it gets really cold in Jan. an Feb you can find wintering herds of up 200 dear thriving off of each others heat in a alfalfa or chisle plowed bean feild.

as far as making plots illegal cause dumping is illegal? I agree with others that it bennefits all wildlife. it is just a good thing period. 23 years ago I did my internship for wildlife management at Thief Lake WMA up here in NW MN an the've had food plots back then an why? cause it benefits wildlife. Also wildlife managers are not much different than farmers, they manage wildlife like famrmers manage crops. Those words come from the WMA manager himself. I'm sure its frustrating being in the situatuon you are. Nobody likes to have peanuts when theirs a cotton candy stand near by an ya cant afford that.

I cant agree with make plots illegal an i cant agree with making dumping legal. Good luck this year, later baor

[96trigger]

Great post boar!

[Eric Wettschreck]

pull up to a corner of a feild with a grain truck an hit the hydraulics.

I know you're trying to make a point but with corn prices the way they are, the only place the farmer is going to dump the bucket is at the elevator.

To add to discussion I'll ask the question. What's the big deal about tossing out some bait? In the end, a dead tagged deer is a dead tagged deer, right? Does it really matter if it was shot over a pile of smashed up pumpkins or shot while taking a leisurely stroll through the countryside? In the end, dead is dead.

I know baiting isn't legal. Just asking the question for purpose of discussion.

[Boar]

Well yeah it was a scnario but if they could do it they would, my dad has an acre of crop tithe that he donates to the church, many would donate that to corner of the feild if they could.

[CANOPY SAM]

Good post Boar. We have to take everyone's perspective into account on this issue, and like you said, there's no doubt if we had to compete with a farmer that decided to bait, there would be no contest.

I'm still curious why this ended up going away from the topic of these allegedly illegal bags of attractant, or bait now available in all the big box stores.

To be completely honest, when taking in the entire scope and size of this problem, it would likely be much easier to simply legalize baiting in our state. A lot of people are doing it regardless of the law, and it's nearly impossible to monitor with such a large land mass and so few CO's.

Until it's legal though, I would highly recommend not using pumpkins as bait (as was earlier mentioned). Although the deer love em', you may as well paint your bait station blaze orange! I've come across guys that do this, and orange pumpkins against the autumn brown of dead grass and leaves is like a beacon in the dark of night! Obviously not the best choice of bait for doing something that's currently against the law!

[CANOPY SAM]

Your last post, I was thinking about that exact same thing boar. There's lots and lots of farmers out there that do just that. Many believe they are leaving a 10th of their share to the Lord, and thus some leave a 10th of the crop standing in the field.

If they happened to leave this along the corner of the woods, for the critters to enjoy all winter long, technically they cannot hunt within a certain distance of it, because it's currently considered "bait", even though they paid for it, they planted it, they nurtured it as food, it's on their land, and they could choose to harvest it if they wanted to.

Pretty goofy law, really.

[deerminator]

I'm almost certain leaving a strip of standing corn in the field an hunting over it is not illegal. Then not plowing under food plotes each year would be illegal too. I have a friend who is doing this very thing this year. He's given the farmer who leases the land a slight break in rent to leave a 1/4 of an acre of standing corn for the deer and pheasants.

[Boar]

I feel on erics question, where would it end? we already have the argument of dumping vrs no dumping. an people are dumping because of food plots or just dumping because nobody's gonna tell them wat do on their land, or just to try an get away with it. "wats the big deal of just tossing out some bait?" well I dont know really, if it was just that, if it ended there, maybe nothing. but it wont. His pile is bigger, he's got all the deer so i have to haul in more, ect ect ect. Nothing is ever good enough for some people they have to ruin it for everyone an now we have all the goofy laws we can handle.

In light of it i dont think the DNR wants to legalize it for the sake of ruining an influx of revenue thats increaseing Boy things sure were alot simple 30 yrs ago wernt they. Get together with family an freinds, drive some woods, give one to the land owner, have some lunch, walk in the woods, shoot a deer, get on post an freezer but quicly warm up as you hear that sound coming thru the woods, crunch crunch crunch, adrenaline starts pump, cold feet go away, breathing is heavier, MOOSE!