Minnesota Nice?

[CaptainMusky]

In example 2 above that could have happened anywhere, I dont believe that has anything to do with locale. You honestly think that if the situation presented itself somewhere else where you buddy challenged buddies of the boss the same "punishment" wouldnt be levied?

I highly doubt that.

When it comes to changing process resistance can be and is a good thing. Often time "big picture" thinkers come in from outside the company or location that believe they have all the answers and do not even fully know or understand the work environment.

If a bus is parked outside do you follow everyone else onto it or do you ask where the heck its going first? I know what I do!

To me, the minnesotans in your scenario were doing the opposite of what you were accusing them of in the "minnesota nice" accusation. They were not just sitting there and letting things happen.

[Slabasaurus]

Promotes a passive behavior doesn't it.

I showed our company where we will spend $1.3M more than necessary and how to prevent it...Almost lost my job over it, and we went ahead and spent it anyway... 33% of our products we buy or make higher quantities to get a lower piece price. But, we'll inventory it for years to come...So it does not save money in the long run, but it appears to be if you only look at piece price and sales price and exclude the $$$$ in excessive inventory.

Business managers are happy being ignorant of the inventory and don't want to lose business by realizing the true cost of their products. Some days my head spins.

You don't work in supply chain do ya? Just thinking this sounds like about 1/4 of my job duties.

It's a constant struggle... that's for sure.

[goblueM]

I agree with Canopy Sam... I think a lot of Minnesota Nice is being nice on the surface, mixed with some good ol passive-aggressiveness. In my (limited) experience Minnesota Nice is a lot more being nice by way of avoiding topics of controversy, whereas "southern hospitality" is great and fully extended... until they find out you don't share their views on govt, religion, or the like, upon which it reverts to southern hostility.

[OnAFly]

If you think that only Minnesotans have problems with change or "rocking the boat", get out to workplaces anywhere. It's all about the same. That includes other countries. Some are better some are worse, but it's everywhere.

I will say that in general, drivers in MN are more courteous than in places I've driven our east and southwest. If someone waves to you out east, they likely only have one finger out.

As for the confrontation side, it's not been my experience that we sit back and let anything happen for fear of upsetting someone. To me, most people seem well balanced. I'd rather have that than some people I've met out west who just can't interact with anyone without a fight breaking out.

[TruthWalleyes]

You don't work in supply chain do ya? Just thinking this sounds like about 1/4 of my job duties.

It's a constant struggle... that's for sure.

Started as a Mfg Eng in a diecasting department.

Then moved onto an "automation team" to automate whatever bright idea our VP has on any given day.

Recently spend 3 months showing procurement how to resolve the china supply chain that has been growing.

I'm the first guy, and only guy to take it upon himself to analize all 27,000 part numbers and their inventory levels - only to be punished for it. LOL, showed that 3.5M of product is NEVER going to sell . Showed them how it got there and what we'll add to it next year.

And now i'm back on automation as well as thrown at large company problems such as my task last week: "This building has had a productivity decline over the last 6 months of 2%"...Took me an hour to figure out that their productivity numbers were about as good as a dried up carp next to a landing!

I was recently given two days to put a plan together to buy $1M in die casters...Too many knee jerk priorities from Mgt...Kind of like the DNR

Struggle for sure...Can be an absolute blast when your able to accomplish major change and truely save big $$ every year.

In 4 years i've had 7 bosses...So every day is a new task and rules only apply on the day their given.

[Slabasaurus]

I would not choose another job aside from maybe "fly fishing generalist" to be honest.

It's a challenge, but it's very rewarding... though having that many different bosses would be pretty tough. I do not envy that one bit.

[CANOPY SAM]

Yes, Captain Musky, I do think it would've turned out differently in a less "Minnesota Nice" location. My friend was correct in his assertion of the truth in this situation. The response was very "small town" thinking, inside a very large national corporation. Although it wouldn't be my personal way of dealing with the situation, he intends to make them pay for their mistake, and perhaps rightly so. He will win, and the company will react by stepping up already existing policy that was being ignored in this environment.

I know, that in other parts of the country, where "boys club" mentality doesn't rule, but a more professional, less personal approach to the work place, I believe this situation would've been handled much differently. Could it have happened anywhere else? Yes, you're right, it could have. But it shouldn't.

In my personal example I think the record of time in each project speaks for itself. I accomplished in only a few months in other states what it took more than a year to do in Minnesota, almost solely due to "personal" resistance to change, and an almost constant "being offended" by simple professional work place matters. Is it healthy to resist change in some circumstances? Sure. But I'm telling you, in complete honesty, time and time again I've seen a generally accepted philosophy in this state, "Minnesota Nice", that prohibits logical forward progress.

I've watched organizations protect blatantly obvious poor work performance for the sake of not making waves. I've been invited into institutions because I brought value with tons of experience and "fresh eyes" to make positive change, then been ushered out the door because people were offended when their methods were brought into question. It wasn't my "tone", or my "example", it was because I was perceived as not being "nice", which was grossly misinterpreted. I was being courteous, respectful, and thoughtful with my words and presentations, as I pride myself in always being, but the Minnesota Nice mentality prevailed. I wasn't what they wanted me to be, which is an unrealistic expectation if change is truly required.

As the current HR business approach dictates, I don't buy into pandering and catering to EVERYONE'S SPECIAL NEEDS. It's certainly a "nice" way to do business, but it's also extremely time consuming, which translates into huge cost overruns, and wasted effort. This has been a subtle shift in business policy over the years, to keep everyone happy all the time, but I honestly think it's counter-productive, and unrealistic.

In my experience, and I've successfully raised four terrific kids, if you give anyone an inch, most will TAKE a mile. I have no problem being nice to people, being understanding, and appreciating everyone's contribution. But to be ultimately successful we all have to draw a line somewhere. That's where Minnesota Nice gets in the way. You can't be critical of anything anymore, or someone gets offended (at least in this state). Even if you're strictly talking about a process or method, and not a particular person.

Respect has to be mutual or it doesn't work. And unfortunately our modern society is teaching people that they are "entitled" to respect from everyone, regardless of their behavior, and they don't necessarily have to give it back to anyone if they don't feel like it. Even if it's due! I see this with young sports coaches all the time. Do as I say, not as I do! Kids (people) are smarter than that.

Keep in mind, this is just my opinion, and I'm more than willing to accept being wrong. I'm probably a little biased, and I openly admit somewhat cynical, but I speak from observation and experience. I highly doubt my experience and perspective is universal.

I believe Minnesota Nice started out as a real philosophy for genuinely nice people in the great state of Minnesota, and I still think there are millions of really nice people here. However, in my experience, I now see Minnesota Nice as being a way of thinking, somewhat of a mask. Something people fall back on as an excuse to side step accountability for sometimes difficult conversations.

Respect and accountability go hand in hand. I don't think you can have one without the other. I think Minnesota Nice presents an expectation of respect without the requirement of accountability present.

Don't be controversial. Don't question authority or wisdom. Don't challenge the common system of belief, or heaven forbid you should question the very nature of our relationship, or my behavior!?! I'm always right! Be nice! Bologna!

[CaptainMusky]

Respect has to be mutual or it doesn't work. And unfortunately our modern society is teaching people that they are "entitled" to respect from everyone, regardless of their behavior, and they don't necessarily have to give it back to anyone if they don't feel like it. Even if it's due! I see this with young sports coaches all the time. Do as I say, not as I do! Kids (people) are smarter than that.

This is precisely the problem with the younger generations today. Many people dont feel they have to work for anything that its owed to them. This has absolutely ZERO to do with MN nice. I attribute this to more or less "equal opportunity". Because Tom has a nice fishing pole, I am going to steal one just like it.

Growing up if I ever felt I was owed something and hadnt earned it I would get my butt chewed and then when that was complete I would be pummeled. There are no free handouts in life, you have to work for what you deserve in whatever manner that may be. But saying that everyone has equal rights to everything is precisely the reason many have no respect for others. Get to a fishing spot first? Doesnt matter, I will park right next to you.

[McGurk]

In MN people smile to your face and then stab you in the back; everywhere else they have the common decency to yell at your back and stab you in the front.

[pooly_31]

sure is a good thing we have all of these beautiful lakes and forests, otherwise i can't imagine why anyone would live in this god forsaken hellhole! /sarcasm

[BLACKJACK]

Promotes a passive behavior doesn't it.

And takes away your motivation. Should I work on the top task on my to-do list or go look at FM??

[TruthWalleyes]

And takes away your motivation. Should I work on the top task on my to-do list or go look at FM??

Got Me!

[BTL]

I agree with Canopy Sam... I think a lot of Minnesota Nice is being nice on the surface, mixed with some good ol passive-aggressiveness. In my (limited) experience Minnesota Nice is a lot more being nice by way of avoiding topics of controversy, whereas "southern hospitality" is great and fully extended... until they find out you don't share their views on govt, religion, or the like, upon which it reverts to southern hostility.

I completely agree on both.

[ClownColor]

This has to be the worst thread I've ever read and it makes no sense at all...How's that for MN nice!

[LMITOUT]

I agree with Canopy Sam... I think a lot of Minnesota Nice is being nice on the surface, mixed with some good ol passive-aggressiveness.

I was wondering if anyone would mention that.

"Minnesota Passive Aggressive" just doesn't have the same ring to it at Minnesota Nice. Plus it takes up too much space on MN Dept of Tourism literature...although it really is much more accurate.

<- passive aggressive smiley.

[20lbSloughShark]

I completely agree with the passive/agressive attitude of Minnesota. Most people will say whatever they want about people, but when it comes face to face (when you can actually do good with your complaining ) very few have the backbone to say it.

[Kyhl]

Chicken or egg?

Is passive aggressive a function of non-confrontational or is it the other way around?

[CANOPY SAM]

Chicken or egg? Gotta love that logic. Which came first? Minnesota Nice or Passive Aggressive behavior? Was one born of the other, or have they been lurking in the shadows, whispering little secrets together all along?

This IS the dumbest thread ever! We really shouldn't talk about this kind of stuff. It's not "normal" cause we just don't talk about this kind of stuff, here (in da gosh darn NICE state a MinnesOta)!

[OnAFly]

Sounds like you've got quite the axe to grind with Minnesota. Have you met Lmitout yet?

I still don't know why this is in the OPEN WATER FORUM.

[CaptainMusky]

This whole thread was like a trainwreck. YOu dont want to look, but feel compelled to do so.

if only I could get back the 10 minutes I spent reading and responding.

Since when did this become a therapy session?

[CANOPY SAM]

No axe to grind with Minnesota at all. I love this state, and the people that live here. I think you missed the point.

I just think that this prevailing ideology (Minnesota Nice) that we should avoid talking about difficult topics is foolish. It's a carry-over of a bygone generation when people were basically so uptight they refused to talk about challenging issues. Just don't do it, and don't talk about it! Kids in the 60's changed all that, but it still hangs on in much of the Midwest.

I guess it's just a real sore spot with me cause my folks were SO Minnesota Nice. I love em' both dearly, and understand why they didn't want to make waves and address certain issues, but the overly permissive approach to raising kids has resulted in life-long failures to face, and rise above real challenges. Not so much with me, but profoundly with my siblings.

Personally, it took me a long time to see the error in being overly nice, so like many others in earlier posts, threads and forums, I've been burned way too many times, in work, and particularly in relationships.

I know this thread is a little foolish, but if I can shed a little light on a social issue that might help a few people not be taken advantage of quite so often, then perhaps I've accomplished something good?

There are numerous examples in this thread, and others, of Minnesota Nice behavior that didn't end with positive results. It's one thing to be nice to someone, it's another thing entirely to be nice to the point of being a push-over.

I know it sounds silly, but it matters. It really does. Just like we wouldn't allow our kids to run our lives (we have to run theirs - at least until they make good decisions on their own), we can't and shouldn't allow other people to push us around like sheep, just for the sake of being nice.

If you don't think this is a real issue that's fine. I just thought it might be interesting to see what other Minnesotan's (and non-resident transplants) see in regard to this topic. I put it on the open water forum because there are several other threads here that wreak of a Minnesota Nice approach to dealing with issues.

Sorry I wasted your time. The preponderance of responses indicate agreement that it's a problem.

[Down Deep]

It's the dog days of summer that creates a thread like this. I think everyone has already bought a boat and all the gear they need this year so we don't have any questions about gear. We killed on the AIS threads, so we are tired. I think in a month our thoughts will turn to fall fishing, hunting and ice fishing. I was wondering what might happen if this thread was sent down to General Discussion Hell.

[OnAFly]

This is prime time for a couple of species...There's more to the water than walleyes, panfish an bass.

Sorry for the hijack. Back to the complaining about human nature.

[itchmesir]

If you want to see Minnesota Nice in full swing.. You should really check out one of the many music festivals in this state.. Minnesota nice all around.. Honestly.. The nicest people I've ever met in this state have been at such events...

[matthothand]

Well this has been an interesting read. I'll just throw in that I've lived in different places in MN for 27 years and moved to a suburb of Kansas City, KS this February. There is no question Kansas Nice > Minnesota Nice. People here consistently go out of their way to make your day rather than the simple smile I remember receiving on most occasions in MN. I love MN. It really it a great place to live and raise a family. I'm just sharing the news that it's not the end all capital of "nice" that so many self-label it to be.