MN River Cats...what's going on?

[DTro]

Something very obvious has happened to catfish on the MN river in the past 2 years. I wish I could say it was just me, but sadly everyone has the same story. It hasn’t been hours between bites, rather days. Don’t get me wrong, I’ve caught several nice fish this year, with a couple over 40lbs, but you are bound to luck into a handful if you spend 40 hours a week on the river. Nope, something else is amiss and I wish I knew what it was. I’ve heard theories and have a few of my own, but I don’t think we will ever be quite certain as to what happened or is happening. Even the channel cats are few and far between.

Some things I’ve heard.

The high water in the past 2 years forced most of them downstream to the Miss or they swam way upstream towards Granite Falls.

They ventured into the backwaters during record high water last year and got trapped back there when the water receded.

Increased fishing pressure has pushed them out and/or people are keeping too many.

I can tell you this. In the past 2 years I haven’t had a night in which we caught more than 5 flatheads in the boat and in fact that 5 number was only hit twice last year, this year we haven’t broke 4 and that was only twice. Mostly 0 fish with some 1’s and 2’s and a few 3’s mixed in.

For comparison, in 2007-2010 we probably averaged about 5 fish a night and double digits was fairly common, in fact one night in 2008 we boated 21 Flatheads in just a few hours.

I plan on heading up to the Red River in Canada again this year in August and the thought of possibly catching 10 fish or more a day, which is a slow day up there, is going to seem like Euphoria....

[TruthWalleyes]

I caught 1 40" flathead last year...on the st. croix in october, on crawlers of course! Over 100 hours on the minnesota and that was the only flathead caught all year for me in 2011.

I have yet to be skunked with channels this year on the minnesota and even got my biggest at 30"...But dang it it would be nice to have fishing like the red river!

I figured i just DON'T know how to catch a flat! Maybe landed 10 in my last 4 years of fishing for them. It is discouraging to hear your lack of success though and i know you fish the river as much as i fish, i just don't concentrate my efforts on the river like you do.

What would be your suggested harvest restrictions to help improve the fishery? I like slots. Are there any stocking programs in place, or fish surveys? I know they can be difficult with flatheads.

[proguide]

I don't live there DTro but I think you are right on all levels with your theories. Water level extremes move fish around and cause odd situations. Couple that with more people on the river and more traffic it will change patterns.

Up here where I am traffic is really not an issue other than I enjoyed having the river to myself in the high water the past couple seasons. But this year I noticed that things are goofy in my home section of river. I have been forced to travel downstream to find fish.

As the season is progressing I am noticing that my home section of river is coming back alive and things are falling into place. After looking at some historical numbers and talking to some DNR experts who have been around a while, I'm experiencing what could be called a "normal year".

[Scott K]

I think the muskies ate them!

I have also noticed a large increase in bait fish as well (aka walleye), which would tell me that there is a lot less predators around.

I think the high fast current pushed them down stream. Up here (upstream) it has been slow for about 3 years, while down stream was going hot. 4 years ago, my area was going strong. Many double digit nights. In fact it was more the norm to catch 5+ flats a night, then not. Now, 0-1 a night. If I was to guess, I would say I average 1 flat per 3 outings.

[aanderud]

Well, now I don't feel so bad that in my 11 outings this year I've seen flatheads on only 1 of them. We had a nice pair in one evening, on my 3rd time out for the year. I thought -- here we go, the fishing's going to pick up now! But I've had 8 flathead-skunks since, boating only occasional channel cats. I'm sure I could get more channels if I was throwing cutbait, but I'm not all that interested in the little guys the MN has to offer.

It's definitely changed how I fish -- that is to say I go out fewer times. Four years ago, if I had friend in from out of town, or was hanging with someone from work that doesn't really fish much, I would have gladly taken them to the river to get some flathead action -- something new and entertaining for them. After all, there was like an 80% chance that we'd get into some fish, and good odds that several would bite (and always a chance at a big one). Nowadays the 80% flatheasd-skunk ratio causes those 'social' outings with non-fishermen to be elsewhere -- bar, deck, back-yard near a smart fire, etc.

[GooBack]

I would blame fishing pressure. #1 factor smart people don't come to FM.com every day and tell people where to fish.

Look for a crash on the MS in the future.

[rushing]

Yep people shouldnt even bother with the Mn Riv anymore.

[DARK30]

Maybe they can learn from being caught....Mr.Moyer seemed to think so. I'll bet if you guys just start licking um, they'll bite more often

[HotPocket]

I was out last night and saw a fish floating. I got closer to it and it was a 40+" flathead. I picked it up by the mouth to see what might have happened to it and the fish had blister looking wounds over it. Looked and seemed kinda odd to me.

[DTro]

Maybe they can learn from being caught....Mr.Moyer seemed to think so. I'll bet if you guys just start licking um, they'll bite more often

[Alagnak]

I was out last night and saw a fish floating. I got closer to it and it was a 40+" flathead. I picked it up by the mouth to see what might have happened to it and the fish had blister looking wounds over it. Looked and seemed kinda odd to me.

That's certainly not cool to hear. Sounds like the Bullhead funky fuzz they get in the tank. This 10+ degree spike in water temps in a matter of just days could have been a factor who knows. Either way that's no good.

[motownmasher]

well there has been a huge drop in catch rate up river as well. i'm from the redwood falls area and can say they definitely didn't stop here. maybe closer to granite???

we have had a few 5 fish nights. only two this year, which is waaaaay down from previous years. many that i've talked to in the area have the same luck. the norm is one to three in a long night. say eight hours or more. i've always thought it is just over pressure, but the high water theory has also crossed my mind. most fish caught last year were in backwaters which are inaccessable now, and the fish that didn't swim out will most certainly die in winter.

hopefully someone has the answers..... very troubling

[sethooknreel]

Hi, I'm new here.

Maybe it's cyclical? I live about 3 hours south of Redwood Falls and back in my teen years (mid-90's) my grandpa took us up to that area for an overnight trip 2-3 times a year. I haven't been there since maybe '98, and he finally quit the MR fishing by about '02. Said fishing had been getting much, much slower over '99-'02 years blaming fishing pressure and hard to find the "good holes" anymore as the river changes so much.

What I'm hearing from you DTro is that it had been pretty good '05-'10ish?

I'd love to hear some good news, I was hoping to head up there in about 2 weeks.

(Meant to do it last year but timing was bad, every time I was free to go water was way above flood stage - imagine that!)

[harvey lee]

I would think the high water is an issue for sure.

The other factor that may be larger is the pressure on the fish. With numerous specie of fish and alot of animals, with enough pressure from humans, you can push those fish or critters right out of an area and they can and will relocate.

I would say that in the last maybe 7 years that I have been fishing the river for flats, the pressure has really gone up. Just look at the traffic at the landings. There were times I would get to a spot maybe 2 hours early just to make sure noone else was there before we arrived. I think everyone can attest to that.

I would put the majority of my money on the pressure as being the largest issue.

[ec30_06]

I think the super high water is the main culprit. Tracking studies have shown that the fish will move a long ways downstream for winter. Flats are not a fast water fish, and probably never moved back up in the spring. After the spawn fish set up a home range wherever they happen to be till fall. Makes sense that p2 has seen an increase in fish the past two years.

[DTro]

I personally don’t think pressure has had a whole lot to do with it. Sure there are boats out there, but the vast majority of nights you don’t see more than 5 other boats in a 5 mile stretch and in fact it’s usually more like 1-2 other boats and a lot times you don’t run into anyone during the week. Sure on the summer weekends (like last Sat) you will see up to 10 boats at a launch, but a lot of those guys are usually just hitting a sandbar to have a smart fire and a few cocktails. But, if you plan on fishing a community spot, well then yes it will seem like your spot is always taken even if only 1 other boat is out there.

Nope, If pressure was such a big factor, then when the fishing was good a few years ago, we would not have been able to hit the same dang spot night after night after night and catch dozens of fish in the same spot every time including the same fish we have already caught 3 and 4 times. We even had names for fish we caught. If they were that smart, that wouldn’t have happened.

My thought is that the high water during spawn the past couple of years was a big deal. They either found somewhere else to call home or ended up somewhere they couldn’t leave when the water receded. I don’t think it was necessarily high water only, because we have that most every spring. I think the timing of the high water was the difference here.

All I know is that my motivation factor is pretty low lately, but at least there is always somewhere else to find some fish (for example the Mississippi) and I find it very hard to believe that the Miss will ever “crash” because too many people are cat fishing it.

[GooBack]

Makes sense that p2 has seen an increase in fish the past two years.

Nothing has changed, 'cept a few internet catfishing legends dragging the crowd around all in the name of being a big deal on facespace.

I could understand losing a few fish due to landlocking, but river fish of all kinds are accustomed to water fluctuation, and fish getting washed downstream? For realz? There was probably more csts that got silted in...than washed downriver.

[DTro]

So you are saying they left the river because there was a crowd or quit biting because there was a crowd?

Which is it?

[Carp-fisher]

I don’t know if others have noticed it but there’s just a ton of bullheads everywhere. Something ain’t right if those things are swimming free and unafraid.

[aanderud]

Hi, I'm new here.

Maybe it's cyclical?

Welcome to HSO, sethooknreel!

Hopefully if it is a down cycle, the upward trend can start again soon!

[JIvers]

I've never fished the Minnesota River in my life, but if flathead populations were that sensitive to fishing pressure they would be all but extinct here in southeast Iowa.

Iowa lets anglers keep eight catfish (all flatheads if you wish) per day, with thirty in possession, allows two lines per angler, plus "ditty poles" and trotlines, all baited with bluegills or green sunfish. It probably goes without saying that catfishing is more popular in SE Iowa than it is back in Minnesota.

I'm definitely not a big fan of set lines, and sometimes wonder what the flathead fishing might be like on the Iowa or Cedar River if anglers couldn't stock their fridge with thirty flathead at a time, but for all that the flathead fishing down here is better than what is being described on the Minnesota. (I'd still take Pool 6 of the Mississippi over the Iowa or Cedar River for flathead, though.)

Southern Minnesota is on the northern edge of the flathead's range, but I would think Minnesota's tighter regulations would compensate for that, if the shorter growing season is much of a factor in making flathead more sensitive to fishing pressure.

[Scott K]

Has there been any tests done on possible water pollution? That maybe is coming from somewhere up stream, and the big fish are just going down stream to get away from it?

The problem with big cats disappearing is it isnt like sunfish and walleyes. You cant just wait 3 years, and you have big fish again, if they have truely left, it may take 20 years before the big ones are back.

[Alagnak]

In regards to the influx of bait fish- that's gotta be pretty normal with all of the premo back waters they've had to spawn in the last few years. Then when the water drops like it has been lately, all that bait is washed/pushed back down to creek mouths and we notice huge populations of bait at those locations. Even if the cats are well fed which I'm sure they are, that sure wouldn't cause THAT many not to bite. Not to mention that at times at creeks where there were a thousand bullies swimming around in the past during 'good bite' years you could just throw one on the outside of the cloud on the seam and still get jerked.

You sure couldn't blame this on pressure this year. There isn't a fraction of the people at the landings I don't think- not during the week or the weekend because everyone is experiencing the same thing here and don't have the motivation to come back. Only the dumbest of the dumb (like myself) keep going back again and again for beatings. :-) I'd still rather get skunked any day of the week on the MN river than fight the ski boats, tuna boats, and idiots at the landings and water on any other popular lake around here I know that.

[Gordie]

I personally think it has something to do with the High water and it happening more than a normal spring type season a couple years in a row now. I also don't think it helps that two years in a row that some of this high water has been around or on the spawn of the cats.

It would be intresting to find out from the states that allow noodling if they noticed a change in locations or movemnet patterns in high water situations They are a a hands on with these fish and probably know how they react better than most.

I only remember a couple times growing up where the flooding was so late in the season on the river but I can't say that the fishing was bad or good for that matter.

High water may be the culprit but I have a hard time believing that they just left the system. Could it happen? Yea sure but wouldn't you think that other fish might be scarce also and it sounds like the fishing for other fish has been pretty good and my guess is there is no shortage of food for them.

[JIvers]

After an experimental noodling season in 2005 and 2006, the Missouri Department of Conservation found that noodlers could have a negative impact on flathead numbers, and ended the experiment: http://mdc.mo.gov/fishing/regulations/why-no-noodling

Basically, Missouri found that noodlers target trophy-sized fish, have a lot of success doing so, and in small rivers where noodling is easy hand-fishermen could quickly clean out adult flatheads.

Hand-fishing is also illegal in Iowa, and it is my understanding that the Iowa DNR strongly opposed legalizing it for the same reason Missouri says they will not allow hand-fishing. Most other southern states feel the same way, with Oklahoma, the home of "hillbilly hand-fishing", being an exception.

As an aside, IMO it is not a good idea to legalize something just because it looks cool on TV.