New retractable roof stadium in Arden Hills

[soldoncass]

I highly DOUBT the matter of sports teams in a state are the ONLY reason they are in the RED. In fact they MAY BE the ONLY REASON they haven't gone belly up yet. The OVER ALL picture needs to be examined closely....not jump to conclusions, based on ONE FACT.

[PurpleFloyd]

Excuse my ignorance, but I'm more concerned as a taxpayer about what we get as far as income directly attributable to the stadium. Anyone have any info on what the state's returns will be from non-Vikings rentals of the facility; percentage of ticket sales & suite rentals; percentages of concession sales; etc. I'm suspicious of talk about all the revenue generated for area businesses and the increased tax revenue that will generate for the state. Given Americans propensity to save (hardly any), it would seem that money spent by fans attending Vikings games is mostly a diversion of money from one area of commerce to another and that little "new" spending will actually occur. I could be wrong...maybe what people wouldn't spend on Vikes' games (if they left) would otherwise end up in a sock under the bed. Any info on what the state will get directly from the stadium usage would be appreciated. That, to me, is the real taxpayer concern.

I don't have all of the info at my disposal but I do have a link that does show the P&L for the Metrodome in 208 and 2009 and in that you can see how much they get from rent and concessions.

http://www.leg.state.mn.us/docs/2010/other/100714.pdf

In the PDF it states that dome, a building that is paid for, had a decline in assets of over 6 million dollars from 2008-2009.It also had a 6.5 million dollar operating loss in FY 2009.

Now, as I have said many times, if the team is going to keep the money from luxury boxes and club seats, keep the money from naming rights and if they are not going to dramatically increase the number of seats to the general public, how can they add 1.1 billion dollars /40years to the expense ledger and still cash flow it without dramatically raising prices on the general seats or by being further subsidized by the state?

Maybe there is an answer out there somewhere that proves it can be done but I have not seen it.

[zepman]

Pretty scewed stats hawgchaser...they don't take into effect any variables. How do you think the population of the USA looked 40 years ago as compared to today for one.

Nobody REALLY cares about education...lets just quit fooling ourselves. Every Fall, the majority (by far) of all local referendums and tax increases gets voted down in favor of NOT helping our schools.

Just get it done!!!

[LMITOUT]

In the PDF it states that dome, a building that is paid for, had a decline in assets of over 6 million dollars from 2008-2009.It also had a 6.5 million dollar operating loss in FY 2009.

I didn't read the .pdf, but was there any mention of the Gophers leaving the Dome to play in their own taxpayer funded facility as an explanation for the loss in revenues?

[soldoncass]

I read part of it...and YES they mentioned the Twins and Gophers leaving for their own places as a MAJOR reason for the decrease.

[LMITOUT]

Ha! Forgot about the Twins, but they're easily forgettable lately....

So the losses really don't mean much when they are taken with some context and not a reflection on the facility itself. With those two teams leaving what we're now seeing is the "new normal" (hate that phrase but it works here ).

It really doesn't make much sense to throw a bunch of money at another facility when there is already one that is more than capable of doing the job...especially when one of the main flawed reasons is the lack of revenue from luxury suites that would go right into the team owner's already deep pockets. A new facility isn't going to add a dramatic amount of jobs because what will be lost at the old facility will be replaced at the new one. Same goes for the cash flow of businesses in the area surrounding the facilities. A loss here will be a gain there with a negligible difference.

[zepman]

Who cares...really. If not for the state, federal, or local governments many would not have a job at all.

Civic and business leaders in both Minneapolis and Ramsey county would not be fighting over this location and access to the Vikes if they didn't know what it will bring to their constituents and tax base...$$$$$. An old saying goes something like this..."Sometimes you have to spend $$$ to get $$$$". Everyone in this debate surely understands this.

Get it done!!!

[PurpleFloyd]

Yes and no.

Revenue did go down after the Gophers left(No data on the twins because they didn't leave until 2010 correct?

However,now that I found the PDF's again I did go back at the last 10 years and the dome consistently lost money even when all 3 teams were there.They did get a 22 million dollar bump in the MSFC account in 1998 from the sale of the old met stadium land. Other than that the assets decreased and the facility operated in the red every year that I looked at.

This is from 1997, 1998:

Quote:

1998 1997

Operating (loss) income ($836,036) ($201,289)[/quote']

[HOF#13]

From an outsiders view this is a real interesting topic. Over here in SD I have watched the Vikings stadium debate for years. I am not a Vikings fan, but enjoy having a NFL team 4 hours away from my home. I can understand the arguements made by those who want the stadium and by those who oppose it, but I think it would be a very sad day for MN if the Vikings ever left the state.

My concerns about a new stadium are much more simple than those of you in MN who may have to help finance a new stadium. Last season I wanted to take my family of 4 to the dome to watch the Dolphins vs Vikings (my son & I are die hard Dolphins fans, and my wife & daughter LOVE the Vikings). It was the perfect chance to take my kids to an NFL game (have never been to one), and everyone gets to see their favorite teams play. Unfortunately, once I saw what it was going to cost for 4 tickets for decent seats, the family trip was cancelled.

I hate to think what 4 tickets will cost in the new stadium. I am sure there will be a nice little increase....

It's not just the Vikings though...all professional sports seem to be making it harder and harder for the middle class family to afford to go to a game.

[birdswacker]

Build it!! Use only Minnesota companies for the construction.Don't let out of state people work on it. It would put a big boost in the local economy.

[hawgchaser]

Quote:

Build it!! Use only Minnesota companies for the construction.Don't let out of state people work on it. It would put a big boost in the local economy.

Bids for public-funded construction contacts of this size will be awarded to the lowest bidder. Minnesota has no pure preference laws for resident public works contracts. Few states do. Many states have reciprocal preference for public works. Should Minnesota have such a pure preference law, the law would automatically apply to MN-based companies bidding on public out of state contracts (if the states have reciprocity laws).

The fact that contracts will be awarded to lowest bidders makes me skeptical of the claim that 95% of the construction costs will be paid to MN companies/workers.

[LMITOUT]

Quote:

Bill ties racino to Vikings stadium

May 20, 2011 - 9:13 AM

Days before the Legislature is slated to adjourn, a bipartisan group of lawmakers dropped a bill Friday that would use racino profits to fund a new Vikings stadium.

The proposal, which was posted late Thursday night, allows Minnesota's two racetracks to install slot machines at their facilities. The profits would be directed toward both a Vikings stadium and a new ballpark for the St. Paul Saints.

DFL Sen. Dan Sparks authored the bill, which counts Republican Sen. Julie Rosen among its co-sponsors. Rosen also authored the original Vikings bill earlier this session. Republican Rep. Tom Hackbarth introduced a House companion Friday morning.

In March, lawmakers making the perennial push for racino decided to tie the profits to a special jobs fund. But that bill has languished in committee, where many believe it lacks the votes to move forward.

Backers of racino have repeatedly said the proposal could generate up to $125 million a year for the state. Gov. Dayton and lawmakers have capped the state's possible contribution to a Vikings stadium at $300 million.

Racino is the best way to get this done.

[PierBridge]

Quote:

so you want the government to just surrender tax revenue and hand it over to the owners so the stadiums being built would be 100% publically funded????

No not what I am saying at all.

I'm saying give the owners all of the Tax revenue that would be lost "from the PLAYERS" if they were not here and build the stadium with the funds that WON'T be here if there gone.... So basically, that's the exact opposite of your 100 percent publically funded comment.?????

[zamboni]

Concerts and Gophers baseball and various state tourneys will be the only remaining tenants of the Dome after the Arden Hills stadium gets built, right? Whats the point of putting a new roof on that place?

[Mid-Lake Rock]

Concerts and Gophers baseball and various state tourneys will be the only remaining tenants of the Dome after the Arden Hills stadium gets built, right? Whats the point of putting a new roof on that place?

Insurance is covering the majority of the cost.

[FISHINGURU]

We are not spending enough money, we need some extra add ons to this new stadium, especially if we use Racino.

[zamboni]

Insurance is covering the majority of the cost.

I know that, but like you said, only a majority.

[jwmiller33]

Racino is the best way to get this done.

I agree 100%

[PurpleFloyd]

Concerts and Gophers baseball and various state tourneys will be the only remaining tenants of the Dome after the Arden Hills stadium gets built, right? Whats the point of putting a new roof on that place?

So they can tear it completely down in a few years.

[DR_FISH]

Why can't the Zigs take out a loan and pay for it them selves?

[LABS4ME]

Why can't the Zigs take out a loan and pay for it them selves?

They could but won't.

Because they CAN and WILL make the State foot the cost.

That's why!

Good Luck!

Ken

[Shack]

Quote:

My problem is that the money will be taken from people who have no voice in the process. 40 years ago the U.S. ranked 1st and 3rd in math and science in the world. Today we rank 21st and 26th...BUT...we have more pro-sports teams that any other nation. It's not an issue of money! It's an issue of priorities and mine don't happen to be sports over education.

My question would be "Then why would they care?".

You know where the stadium funds will go if not used for the stadium? I bet you have no clue, but yet people default that they "will" go to education and help better mankind. I bet they go for padded toilet seats and triple ply toilet paper in our state parks programs. They will go to fund fishing piers on a lakes with no fish in them, multi-million dollar Global Prevention programs and yada yada. Guess would be best used within your statement.

I normally support the above mentioned stuff. In this case I do not and as a voter I want a stadium for the Vikings.

Everyone guaranteed it would be done by the end of this session in a couple past threads. "No worries" and "No Problem". Well?

[zamboni]

Another good way the state could make some money is put some slots in at the airport. Go to Vegas, first thing you see when you get off the plane. Our airport has nothing to do after you've gotten through security

[hawgchaser]

Quote:

"Then why would they care?".

Shack,

If we're talking about students, It is my assumption that it is up to adults to protect the interests of those who have no voice in government...in this case children.

As to why I presume education is footing a significant portion of the bill, the current legislative proposal for education includes a $25 per student increase for next year. Due to the tax shift mentioned earlier, the school district will only receive $7.50 per student. The accounting trick will have them claim $25 as received. That's a loss of $16 million in unreceived money. The state currently and since 2003 has been delinquent in meeting promised school funding to the tune of almost $9 billion each year. School districts throughout the state have to borrow money for cash flow that taxpayers have paid in good faith to fund schools. Fergus Falls paid $150,000 in interest last year that didn't do anything for education; it was paid just to cover this delinquent state payment. That interest amount will have to be increased since $7.50 per student will not begin to cover increased costs for transportation, heating fuel, electricity, etc.

I'm not opposed to a Vikings stadium. I would have donated a certain amount of money from my tax return for it. I would be willing to purchase viewing rights through pay-per-view fees. I would support a designated additional tax as a funding source. I do object to using general tax revenue to fund special interest projects, and with almost 2/3 of the population opposed to public funding, it is a special interest issue...no better, no worse (in a democratic society) than public funding for abortions against the will of the majority. It is an imposition of the will of the minority upon the majority.

I can't help but wonder if support for the stadium would be so strong here if the funding was to come from DNR revenue.

[klecker]

Detroit has a newer stadium. Hahahahahahahhahah