Food plots = Baiting

[big drift]

I know we have a lot of folks who put out food plots, what is the difference between that and putting out corn piles, apples, seeds etc.?

Neither one is an agricultural based use, we dont consume food plots nor do we harvest them, both are used to manipulate feeding and travel corridors, makes ya wonder.

I do neither yet see it all over, after listening to the [PoorWordUsage] from here and in the community there seems to be a lot rock throwing in glass houses.

[goblueM]

well first of all the disease transfer possibilities are cut down significantly with a plot, since they aren't all gathered around a concentrated pile of food

second, it is a long term benefit to the animals rather than a short term gorging that changes habits and movement patterns. Also a huge influx of say corn can be very bad for a deer's health

Not to mention if you plant a food plot it actually takes some effort and is actually a management technique rather than a lazy unethical dumping of corn. (just my opinion)

[skee0025]

Not to mention if you plant a food plot it actually takes some effort and is actually a management technique rather than a lazy unethical dumping of corn. (just my opinion)

So you have land that you are able to manipulate vs. the indiuvidual who has to hunt public land and is prohibited from making "improvments" and hikes in some corn. The end result is the same. So its only "ethical" because you can afford the land to do it on?

[Bear55]

Sigh...Here we go again. To start off there is the desease factor with baiting, this doesn't happen on a food plot. The deer are also much more attracted to a pile of bait for any easy meal vs food plot which is pretty much a glorified hay field (should those be illegal too). Numerious accounts on this site have proven deer will travel past natural food sources/food plots in favor of the easy meal over a pile of bait. You can also place a pile of bait anywhere in thick cover, giving the deer a false sense of security. Deer don't feel that same security out in the open of a food plot.

Most people who plant food plots do it to improve the overall habital of the area helping all of the animals. If anyone can show me how a pile of bait poured out a few times a year helps the habitat I would love to see it.

Now if you public land hunters (I am one) don't think its fair that private land owners can plant food plots. I said get over it, private land will alwasy have an advantage over heavily hunted public land. If you think you are going to level the field you are wrong, what if we all get 5 gallons of bait, then everyone puts out 5 gallons and the private land owners still have better habitat. Just learn to hunt your public land the best you can, nothing levels the playing field more than hard work.

I see baiting a lazy mans way to avoid scouting and putting his/her time in the woods. If you can't pattern a deer and give yourself a shot opportunity without bait you probably aren't much of a hunter/woodsman to begin with so you might be better off getting yoru meat at the grocery store.

[goblueM]

[InTheNorthwoods]

So you have land that you are able to manipulate vs. the indiuvidual who has to hunt public land and is prohibited from making "improvments" and hikes in some corn. The end result is the same. So its only "ethical" because you can afford the land to do it on?

Habitat improvement vs. baiting. They are not equal other than the idea is that deer will feed on both. If you want to be that trivial and closed minded, go ahead, but there will never be any headway made between the dissenters.

For example, burning, logging, trail cutting and maintenance, agricultural production, etc. are legal and not discussed herein, but each of these acts has the same affect as a food plot, they provide desireable food sources and habitat for animals over an extended period of time. They create browse or food and act as habitat improvement causing deer and other wild game to concentrate near them.

The point being, whether one is done for the sole purpose of improving the land for personal reasons (travel, business endeavor, maintenante, etc), or specifically for improving the land for the wildgame, the end result is the same.

A pile of corn or bait, on the other hand, while highly attractive for a short period of time, does not provide benefits once the pile is gone and does not regenerate itself. I will not get into the other differences.

Finally, I want to be clear that I will not say that the act of baiting in itself is unethical, what makes baiting unethical in MN is the fact that the act of baiting is illegal, and committing an illegal act is unethical.

[gurkster]

I also do neither, but my take on it is that food plots are legal and baiting is not legal in MN. That is the law, I am not sure of all the reasoning involved or who drew what lines there (as I agree there is a fine line there somewhere). For me the glass house statement and morals, ethics, etc. is to follow the law. No one should be harrassed if they are within the law, and you are in the wrong breaking the law. (I am not saying anyone is harrassing - just ading my $.02).

[Musky Buck]

We choose to afford the land we put them on. I don't have season tickets to the wolves,wild,twins,or vikes, I don't have a lake home or cabin,I don't own new vehicles, I don't have an ice house, I don't like making my land(s) payments or the taxes for as few days in the year I actually use them,my boat isn't much, but I value deer hunting at the top of the list and have sacrificed in every area to afford what I have. I haven't eaten breakfast in 20 years. You can apparently afford the internet, there's 50 bucks a month that could go to a payment. I don't make a lot of money so I haven't put in food plots nor would I expect them to be a slam dunk as nocturnal as the deer are, since 1983 I have had standing or combined corn/alfalfa/beans to hunt. I am still waiting for a mature buck, that's 26 years of nothing and I bet people driving by think oh man I bet that guy has great deer hunting. I bet if I brought the corn to the deer in the river bottom for the last 26 years I would've bagged a mature one by now. Food plots aren't the problem, overcrowding is. So sorry if I don't give someone a pity party, most of you make more than I, my wife hasn't worked in 3 years. And like Judas Priest sings, if you think baiting is this magic bullet, will selfishly make everything better, "You've got another thing coming." Thank you to food plot guys and gals for helping all kinds of wildlife make it through the winter and for improving the land, and we have maybe all taken a deer by now that used your food plot at one time or another. No thank you to baiters who have disrupted deer movement by feeding them often times near their bedding grounds, creating a lazy deer that is probably wondering, hey where'd all the goodies go and what are these gutpiles doing so close to where the buffet was ? Good luck Muzzleloading, I better go make 2 land payments, ouch.

[deadeye]

Boy, talk about a can of worms.

Food plots benefit the deer by giving them a actual food source and benefit the deer from the day the plants have sprouted through the winter. Not just during hunting season. Its a large area and doesn't concentrate the deer specifically like baiting piles.

Like said above other things have the same effect as a food plot. Clear cuts, agriculture, trail building ect. If you have ever hunted anywhere near one of these its not really that different than a food plot.

Baiting-i.e. piles of corn, apples, ect. Concentrate the deer in one area and does't actually benefit them. It makes them susceptible to disease, and predators (besides poachers). For the most part, poachers only put out bait for a month or two so the deer don't see much nutritional benefit from it if any.

If food plots bother you, you would have to get a petition going and get the legislature to change the law. Good luck with that.

That's my take on it. Bottom line people are out to take a deer and if its not illegal in the books, they have that privilege.

[DonBo]

This topic has been done to death. Read (ALL) the previous posts on the topic and please move on.

[B. Amish]

I'll add two things that I've posted before on this:

1. Food plots don't have timers to release food at certain times during DAYLIGHT.

2. Baiting is unhealthy for deer because is messes with their digestive system and it takes time for their stomach bacteria to adjust to a corn diet from a natural browse diet. Thus, they aren't able to digest the food and it's almost a form of starvation. Then, when the corn disappears abruptly after the season is over, their stomach bacteria need to readjust in order to digest the food when they switch back to their natural browse diet. This is especially true in areas where there aren't corn fields, i.e. most of the forested region of MN. It's the same reason why they advise to not start feeding deer in January.

[big drift]

I guess it comes down to who has invested in plots whether it is ethical or not.

Right wrong whatever personal interpretation while considering ethics and morals each need to make their own determination, just be honest with oneself rather then trying to rationalize or minimize.

This should be an interesting legal challenge as the DNR has decided to charge folks for baiting yet they have no clear definition or interpretation of it. What is next folks cant hunt next to fields with standing crop, HSO hay or alfalfa off limits, or is using apples and corn alright...

[walleyeking19]

Then is using C'mere deer or other attractants considered baiting?

[JacobMHD]

Baiting feeds only the deer you shoot.

Food plots contribute to the whole herd and help sustain a healthy herd from year to year.

In my short hunting experience, I have found to enjoy the hunt almost as much as the kill. I think baiting would change that.

Food plots have not.

[RumRiverRat]

This topic has been done to death. Read (ALL) the previous posts on the topic and please move on.

THIS!!!!!!

[Big Dave2]

Actually I personally am really tired of hearing the word "ethical" in regards to hunting and fishing. The only reason people feel compelled to insist that they are following some sort of ethical code is because they feel guilty about killing an animal deep down inside.

Personally I do not feel guilty about killing an animal for food. I dont feel any more guilty about killing a deer or bird than I do about ordering a hamburger at McDonalds.

In reallity there is also no such thing as "fair chase". The Animal doesn't even know it is involved in the game and has no chance of defending itself.

If baiting is so "unethical" to most of you, and "unfair" in the rules of fair chase, then why are high powered rifles that can shoot acurately out to hundreds of yards ethical? How about elevated stands, scopes, grunt calls, ATVs, Compound bows, GPS units and inline muzzleloaders. How can these things be ethical and fair?

I don't bait or plant food plots and I don't have anything against food plots or those who plant them, but I just think it is hippocritical for those with food plots to take such a hard stance against baiting. You can justify it all you want but when it comes down to it you are still manipulating the land and the deer to keep the odds in your favor.

[ntrider]

well heres my 2 cents...i do neither but know people that have plots...bottom line is as of now it is legal so who cares...just don't try to justify it by saying plots take time and effort and baiting doesnt, have you ever carried 2 50 lb bags of corn out to the wood 3 times a week??? i haven't but i would think i would work up a sweat doing it...or that baiting is lazy and dont put time in to scouting...the people i know that have plots sit on the edge and dont scout either...

[Musky Buck]

But you aren't adding that they are slaughtering deer in barren, no cover food plots ntrider. Baiting is a lazier form of hunting then doing drives, rattling, still hunting, etc. If we needed baiting our grandfather's would have had that voice heard years ago. Want lower than now deer numbers, let the baiting begin.

[InTheNorthwoods]

You can justify it all you want but when it comes down to it you are still manipulating the land and the deer to keep the odds in your favor.

Yes, that is hunting. The underlying purpose is to be successful. Its just like working hard in school and getting good grades will increase your chances of landing a high paying job. However, cheating in a class might help you get a good grade, but in the end, you still cheated. I am not one to talk about the ethics of baiting, other than to say where it is illegal I would consider it unethical to bait. Just as it is unethical to cheat in school.

As to the rest of the thread, I will reiterate that habitat improvement such as food plots - while meant to improve your odds to kill a deer, is different than just baiting. Whether you, or anyone else, thinks baiting is right or wrong, ethical or unethical, doesn't matter to me.

I have hunted over bait (where legal) and I have tried to plant foodplots (unsuccessfully), and I will tell you first hand that there is a HUGE difference between the two.

It is up to the governing bodies to determine what is legal and what is not - and that is going to come down to whether or not a state allows baiting. As I for one, do not ever see foodplots ever being illegal as they are a living, growing part of the landscape. How do you keep people from planting what they deem to be desireable plants on their property that deer might happen to enjoy eating?

[ntrider]

like i said it is legal and who cares...i do neither but i dont own land...if i did would i try food plots??? cant say that i wouldn't...i just think you guys with plots shouldn't take this personally and the people that do have issues with it need to take it to the dnr and express their views...like i said it is legal and according to the law people with plots arent doing anything wrong...

[Bear55]

One thing I forgot to mention is people watch too much TV. They see some game farm or high fence operation with a food plot loaded with deer and big bucks running around in the wide open. This is not reality and I can gaurentee no ones food plot in the entire state looks like this. The deer might use these plots during daylight hours but once they are pressured they avoid these places until the cover of darkness. Like any means of legal hunting its not a golden ticket to deer like the advertisers of food plot seed would have you believe.

[Musky Buck]

And the reason I don't like baiters in our state stealing from law abidders is how much bragging I hear from how well bait works. I see zero threads on here that rattling horns was the ticket or scents or deer decoys, or my trail cam patterned him perfectly or man they sure hit the salt or man my food plot was the answer. Those things can nearly become obsolete if bait is allowed, TV deer shows are not realty unless you own 1,000 acres or more, that's where a large % of shows are filmed, ever hear another gun shot on the show from a neighboring hunting group, not often.

[delcecchi]

They do edit the footage down to like 20 minutes out of 3 days. Be easy to get rid of spurious noises.

[Bear55]

They do edit the footage down to like 20 minutes out of 3 days. Be easy to get rid of spurious noises.

Regaurdless of editing, there is tv hunting unpressured deer on managed farms, and then there is real life deer hunting that most of us experience. We are both hunting, but the deer we hunt are different animals compared to their tv cousins. It would be funny to transplant some of those TV bucks to public land, most of them wouldn't survive the weekend, let alone make it to lunch.

[RumRiverRat]

Who are you to force your ethics on someone else?

Food Plots are not Baiting deal with it!