Want to talk ethics??!!!

[Jameson]

Sorry, this isn't much more than a rant. Please don't waste your time if you are looking for a report....

6 years ago I was lucky enough to convince a land owner to let me, and only me, hunt his land after he was considering closing it down to everyone, because of "friends" shooting up things he stored there. Up until now their has not been a written agreement, just verbal. I am not required to pay anything directly to the landowners, but am expected to invest some of my own cash into the land. To satisfy this requirement I have planted many trees, including two evergreen screens the landowner is very happy with.

3 years ago I asked the landowner if he had a friend that wanted to shotgun deer hunt the land, because I would be hunting other land and was worried about trespassers. His "friend" was very thankful after the hunt.

2 years ago I hunted the land during shotgun season, so I denied permission to this "friend" when he asked.

1 year ago I was up north again for opening Saturday through Wednesday and asked the "friend" if he would like to hunt the land again. He wanted to and asked if his Dad could hunt with them. I agreed. After the hunt the "friend" thanked me profusely for letting them hunt the land that is so intently managed with food plots, trails, permanent stands, TSI, sanctuaries, etc.

I had anticipated having him hunt with me this shotgun season.

This past Friday he posts pics of him on stand on the land I manage, on Facebook. I text him. He calls back and says he just arrowed a doe.

He had never asked me for permission. If he would have asked, I would have given him permission to arrow a monster buck, and only a monster buck. He had asked the landowner over the phone on Thursday if he could hunt the land. During the tail end of the phone conversation I was standing right next to the landowner when the landowner said "You must call 'Jameson' first." I was expecting a call, that never came. Well, until after he arrowed a deer.

To make an assumption; Before I arrived at the landowners residence the landowner told him that I would probably allow him to doe-only hunt. My assumption is that he was going to arrow the first deer that came by and only tell me if it was a doe.

Sure this write-up is my one side, and I am sure he has his side. But EVERYONE, I think even the "friend," who knows the entire situation agrees he SHOULD have called me. It may be slightly debatable if he HAD to. It really stinks, as I was looking forward to having another "friend" to help with managing the land.

Now he wants to "talk" and work something out so he can hunt there in the future. It is a Lottery zone so he is done this year, maybe not since he didn't recover the deer, but in my mind he is done.

We will see what next year brings. Thankfully the landowner really appreciated the sweet corn and tomatoes I grew for them this year. Also the invasive weeds I sprayed. And the driveway widening I did. And the mowing I did. And the garbage clean up I did. And the landscaping work I helped him with.

Now this "friend" is spouting off about how much work it was for HIM AND ME to put up his ladder stand last fall. What, a half hour to put up a ladder stand???!!! I cut shooting lanes for it for more than an hour!!! I have so many full days spent working on the property, and he is saying how hard he worked when WE put up his ladderstand. Heck, it only took me a couple of minutes to take it down this morning.

Sorry for the rant, and not a report. Thanks for listening as I needed to get it off my chest.

btw, one of our party's member did shoot three does Sunday morning during the Early Anterless hunt in a different area.

[Stratosman]

Sounds kida cut throat to me.

I'm thinkin you two need to have a sit-down. The way it is handled by you depends on the level of friendship....

[Jmnhunter]

sounds like you have alot of dedication towards this property; hopefully you can work things out with the other guy so its not a negative relationship; otherwise tell him to start looking somewhere else as you are the one putting the time and money into the land

good luck!

[Musky Buck]

I have found the rants I have had as extremely therapeutic. I appreciate HSO letting me do therapy on here, I have felt much better often times afterward and now my outlook on hunting is much improved. This kind of thing has somewhat happened to me as well. ex. Got a good goose field, let a guy and his brother hunt with me one day, the next day they were out there full dekes etc. in a field I've hunted since 1979, they got 1 day permission but now feel it's anytime permission and the farmer said as long as they call me or stop by no problem, which never happens. Your situation is sticky and icky. Started out as one thing and now it's creating it's own monster. How many bow hunts did or has he put in on this land before connecting on a doe ? If it were me I'd respect your wishes and the landowners fully without white lies etc. I'd tell him it's game over if he breaks your unwritten rules and agreement.

[picksbigwagon]

I would recommend sitting down with him, talking this all out and writing these unwritten rules down. I would include the land owner as well.

[fishuhalik]

Huh, looks like my rant got terminated! Muskybuck, you're right. It does help just to vent every once in a while and hear other people's opinions. I think I'll just keep my mouth shut on this one.....

[Surface Tension]

Insert the name Billy Jean instead of land owner and you have your answer.

Billy Jean decides whom will court her and not you.

Sure you can buy Billy Jean a new car and roses but that don't mean Bobby Joe ain't coming around. He might not have a plum nickel but hes good looking.

[JeffB]

My opinion is if he asked the land owners he was good to go. If you have a rental agreement its a different story. Get a solid agreement with the land owner and stick to it. The bottom line is unless there is a rental contract the owner can let anyone he wants to hunt on it. Good luck. I hope you don't put too much sweat equity in it and end up losing your spot.

[Coach1310]

First off..... let me say that I understand your point, HOWEVER... I think you are fortunate to have the opportunity to hunt the private ground you do. The bad part about your situation is you are doing lots of "hard work" for the rights to this land, however sometimes "hard work" does not constitute rights like cold hard cash does. I think the only way to completely remedy the situation is to come to some sort of agreement that is put to paper. If you can agree on a contract that should eliminate the suprises. I think the landowner is lucky to have someone like you investing in his/her land and I also think you are lucky to find a landowner who will let you make hunting decisions on his/her property. You have too much time invested to just ruin it over a lack of communication.... are the ethics of this hunter poor?? Yes, but unless the landowner terminates his rights to hunt the property, you are going to have to work something out with him

[Double D]

If you two are doing the work together, maybe you forgot to remind him. For example, next June, call him and say we are doing our first spraying 10:00 on Sautrday, I assume you will be there. In July, we will be trinning trees, see you there. In September, on stand fixing day, we will see you there, be sure to bring some bolts, nails and screws. So on and so on.

Unfortunately you may have to put the landowner in the middle of this, and that could be sticky.

Best of luck to you.

DD

[propster]

And lastly remember you invited him there as some sort of insurance (watching for trespassers). Not sure I would have if you were not willing or didn't think it would lead to more. Sounds like you have too many unwritten rules or assumptions - and he can't keep track of them, or should he?

[CodyDawg]

This year I wanted to bring my 5 year old little girl out for early goose. We found a field while scouting that there were a bunch of geese in. We asked permission and it was granted. As we were leaving, the landowner said there are 2 other groups that asked before you did, but have at it, there are plenty of geese.

So I hunted my cousin's field where there were no geese landing and left the good one to whomever beat me to asking permission. They shot a lot of geese (I drove by after our hunt) and I didnt get a single one. But I had a great time laying in the wheat stubble with my little girl!

Access to hunting land sure brings out the worst in some people doesnt it? I have been reading the "To whomever stole my trail cam" thread and it is sickening to read. Geez people, no goose or deer is worth the chance of getting caught and causing all these problems, is it?

[luckey]

jameson, I thing the real problem is not with this "friend" but rather with the land owner. You have a lot invested in the land without having any control. Like someone said you may be putting the landowner in a bad spot. I would be concerned about cementing your relationship with the landowner (I leave how that is done up to you) and then either accept or reject your "friend". Don't let this guy drive a wedge between you and the landowner. Believe me, many good deals are wreaked by situations like this.

[Wanderer]

Even though this guy is a friend of the landowner, it sounds like you're in control of the hunting rights.

You gave him permission, maybe you can give him walking orders too. Or at least explain to him he's standing on a bridge with a lit match and can of gas nearby.

He got his foot in the door, now his hands, pretty soon he'll be all the way in if you don't set the parameters now.

[walleyehunter80]

Jameson, I think you are 100% on track to an awesome property for whitetails! For me, the land/deer management is the best part of the hunt!

Also it should be YOUR way or the HYWAY no if's and's or but's!!! Keep him out and keep it for yourself and enjoy every minute of it

[HOT SPOT]

I no how you feel. It sucks when someone comes in and takes full advantage of all your hard work. In my optinion its a Cardnal sin to take a guys spot. A few yrs ago a buddy and I went to one of his private spots and then I took him to a Sweet public spot and all the suden he brings his buddys to this public spot. So I went and got permision to hunt the private land Ya it didnt make him happy but I got my point across to him.

I think I would talk to the land owner and see what he says. Tell him the guy never called you to see if it was fine with you. Puts you in a tuff spot hope it all works out for you